Hello and thanks everyone on this website for having created the best collective reference point of information on hornets that I've been able to find. So after a month of working on this bike I've finally reached a point where I'm not sure what else to do. Got the bike after someone tried to steal it and had completely smashed the back of the ignition out with a hammer, on top of that it had been sitting for a few years so all the joys that come with that. Long story short I replaced the ignition with an ebay special, that didn't work. It turns over forever but won't start. No prime and no spark. So I tested the pink ecu wire and I'm only getting 4.5v. Is this a matter of putting a zener diode in to the new ignition? And if so what voltage diode do I need? Tia for anyone who can help me
Aftermarket ignition issues
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Plus, in addition to beefsalad's post that is : Please clarify what you mean by the word "ignition". Do you mean the integrated ignition and steering head lock and key? Or, some other "ignition" part that is elsewhere on the bike, and if this is the case, exactly what got hammered?
Sorry about that yes I am referring to an 02 919. And I mean the ignition key switch in the triple tree. The guy literally smashed the bottom of the cylinder off so the wires were exposed and no longer able to be connected to the switch at all. The cover with the old diode was entirely gone. I thought it would be a simple swap because I've never run into this issue before from using the ebay lock kits but in reading up on this model I'm finding this is a semi common issue
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I'm not an electrical guy, but here's what I've come up with so far by virtue of the Factory Service Manual.
1
I'm assuming it's a non HISS bike.
Some countries got Hornets with HISS, but not the USA or Canada.
2
Does the engine crank?
(You're clear that the fuel pump doesn't prime, and there is no spark.
I realize no spark usually means it cranks but doesn't spark, but this is not time to make such assumptions.)
3
I'm assuming there is no PowerCommander involved.
IF there is, given your present difficulties, disconnect it to make sure it can't be part of the problem, whether it is or not.
4
The steering head switch and lock is not part of the ignition system.
It does not have a diode in it as best as I can tell.
5
If you have not already done so, see FSM page 17-0 and familiarize yourself with all the switches involved.
One or some of the switches, and/or their wires could be involved and need to be proofed as good or bad.
Also note there is a Diode in the wiring diagram. (I don't know if it's a Zener type or not, noting that Zener type is special and not a basic simple diode)
6
See FSM page 18-0 which is the Starter System pictorial and wiring diagram.
See how the "diode" is now called the Clutch Switch Diode.
And it is the same diode as referred to in 5 above, the wiring diagrams make that clear.
7
See FSM page 18-11 for what little info there is on the diode.
It's a module that is resident in the fuse box covered by the right hand side cover.
There a simple proofing test described as well, and the proofing tests suggest to me that it's a normal diode and not a Zener type - but I could be wrong.
8
I assume the lock assembly has been ruined as beyond repair.
And you Ebay purchase was for the entire core, complete with its key?
That you have/had to fit into the upper triple clamp after getting the original out?
Have you checked the contacts of the new core re continuity?
Scary thought, maybe you got a HISS type core, noting the ECU has to be HISS matching.
I'm pretty sure that a HISS type core assembly will not, and can not be made to work, on a USA 919 unless a HISS type ECU is also fitted.
I hope something in the above is of help.
Plus it's a decent platform for genuine electrical types to work with.
1
I'm assuming it's a non HISS bike.
Some countries got Hornets with HISS, but not the USA or Canada.
2
Does the engine crank?
(You're clear that the fuel pump doesn't prime, and there is no spark.
I realize no spark usually means it cranks but doesn't spark, but this is not time to make such assumptions.)
3
I'm assuming there is no PowerCommander involved.
IF there is, given your present difficulties, disconnect it to make sure it can't be part of the problem, whether it is or not.
4
The steering head switch and lock is not part of the ignition system.
It does not have a diode in it as best as I can tell.
5
If you have not already done so, see FSM page 17-0 and familiarize yourself with all the switches involved.
One or some of the switches, and/or their wires could be involved and need to be proofed as good or bad.
Also note there is a Diode in the wiring diagram. (I don't know if it's a Zener type or not, noting that Zener type is special and not a basic simple diode)
6
See FSM page 18-0 which is the Starter System pictorial and wiring diagram.
See how the "diode" is now called the Clutch Switch Diode.
And it is the same diode as referred to in 5 above, the wiring diagrams make that clear.
7
See FSM page 18-11 for what little info there is on the diode.
It's a module that is resident in the fuse box covered by the right hand side cover.
There a simple proofing test described as well, and the proofing tests suggest to me that it's a normal diode and not a Zener type - but I could be wrong.
8
I assume the lock assembly has been ruined as beyond repair.
And you Ebay purchase was for the entire core, complete with its key?
That you have/had to fit into the upper triple clamp after getting the original out?
Have you checked the contacts of the new core re continuity?
Scary thought, maybe you got a HISS type core, noting the ECU has to be HISS matching.
I'm pretty sure that a HISS type core assembly will not, and can not be made to work, on a USA 919 unless a HISS type ECU is also fitted.
I hope something in the above is of help.
Plus it's a decent platform for genuine electrical types to work with.
Alright so literally 5 mins ago I was able to figure out my problem. So as it turns out the new ignition I bought had what I assume was a zener diode for the wrong voltage since the pink wire was only getting 4.5v. I got a bunch of the diodes in the mail today and when I hotwire it with one of these inline everything starts right up. So apparently I didn't need to replace all my relays, fuel pump, spark plugs or ecu but you live and you learn I guess.🤷♂️ now I just gotta get it all back together and hope it runs 😁 thanks for the help
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As our daughter used to say as a kid: Score!!!!
Great news.
And where is this diode you've been talking about?
Is it part of the lock core assembly?
Yea so if you take the two screws off the bottom of the lock assembly on an oem model there's a little orange diode bridging 2 wires ( red to pink I believe) that is a zener diode. the zener diode acts to burn up voltage for your immobilizer system in your ecu. I.e. your immobilizer needs less than 12v or nothing will start because it knows its being hotwired,but evidently more than the 4.5v I was reading. So In this case I used a 3v zd plugged into the wiring harness and bridged to the pink wire and that put me right at 9.5v and the pump fired right up. Unfortunately the aftermarket model couldn't be taken apart the same way and I accidently broke it so I'm buying a new one again but I'm just glad to have the problem solved. I would never have figured it out without this site though
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Thanks for the info. I'm still thrown for a bit of a loop though. All this time I've been operating on the basis that there is no immobilizer of any kind on NorAm 919s! So I guess the HISS on the bikes for some other countries is just a more complex system, including the need of coding the key (chipped key?).
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I'm not sure, but I think the "rest of the world" got HISS equipped Hornets aka 919 in NorAm. For sure the total NorAm fleet 919s is not the majority of the total global fleet, in other words more had HISS than didn't. So I'm thinking that Ebay item, surely from the Far East, might be a HISS variant?
Yea everyone got hiss except us as far as I know. This isn't hiss cause I hear that's much, much worse to try and get around. This is basically the most simple anti hotwire device built into your key switch to prevent someone taking a paper clip or bridging the wires and being able to turn on the bike. This key switch is good for multiple models so I'm thinking either one of them uses a lower voltage to trigger the ecm, or they used a faulty diode. Either is possible but unfortunately the Chinese one wasn't repairable like the oem was.
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I was going to suggest HISS complexities too - good to hear it was resolved more easily.
When I did my fork swap, I had to reposition the ignition barrel, plus find a way to have the HISS device right alongside it to detect the chip in the key. The HISS 'detector' seems to be completely external to the ignition key barrel, I guess sending a signal back to the ECU that the key is legit and the bike may be started.
When I did my fork swap, I had to reposition the ignition barrel, plus find a way to have the HISS device right alongside it to detect the chip in the key. The HISS 'detector' seems to be completely external to the ignition key barrel, I guess sending a signal back to the ECU that the key is legit and the bike may be started.
Yea the hiss setup from what I read is incredibly difficult to work around. Essentially you have to replace the ecu and transponder if you lose your key. Super thankful that's not the norm in the states😆
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So, if I have this right, between your comments and what I have read about Zener diodes, this is how the non HISS immobilizer works:
For a normative key start, as in not being hot wired:
There is a parallel feed to the ICU that is looking for reduced voltage as exists after the Zener Diode that is below the lock core.
The feed into the ECU is by the Pink wire.
If the bike is being hotwired, there won't be that reduced voltage input into the ECU, which then executes internally to prevent the bike from being able to turned over, fuel to be pumped, or ignition to occur.
Comments please, from anyone that has any.
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