Place your bets, place your bets... - Wrist Twisters
View Poll Results: Did it...
burn a hole in the piston? 6 20.00%
crack a ring and wreck the cylinder? 17 56.67%
melt the valves? 2 6.67%
break a conn rod? 5 16.67%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 47 Old 09-27-2008, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
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Place your bets, place your bets...

Did it...


answers tomorrow, after I tear it all down again.

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post #2 of 47 Old 09-27-2008, 06:39 PM
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Aw jeeeeeez, none of those choices sound promising. I only hope it was on the last session of the day so that you got some decent track time. Sorry man.

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post #3 of 47 Old 09-27-2008, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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4th session, bike is running great and I'm pleased as punch.
Short straight between T2 and T3, bike is upright (not leaned over) 6th gear and I get a telltale hesitation. Oh no, this isn't good. I'll pit in and check this out.
Bend the bike over for T4,5,6 and the power is back. Hooray, but I still need to pit.
Bend over for T7,8,9,10,11 and all seems fine, but it can't be, there was a hesitation.
Through T12 and I fly a hand to indicate I'm pitting, bike isn't happy now severe loss of power. Round 13 and stick to the inside, pull the clutch handle and the bike dies. Oh no, not again.

Roll onto hotpit and coast to a stop, walk it the rest of the way in.
Check the oil in the sightglass, no water = head gasket is ok.
Check fuel = all good.
Check the crankcase pressure catchcan filter, look good.
Change the oil - dayyyem that's hot!!! Scalded my hand.
Oil looks good, lots of metal shavings on the magnetic plug = bad sign.

Check the radiator = hmmmm, not quite up to the top there. Where's the water?

and suddenly it hits me like a 2 ton heavy thing. Oh ****, did I not have enough water, maybe I didn't burp it enough, did it cavitate and run dry when upright? No no, that can't be it. Maybe the cam chain rivets failed, I just did them 2 days ago.
Pull off the waterpump cover and give it a kick, the impeller turns = cam chain is good.

Give it a kick, no compression.
Put it in gear and I can walk it around in gear with little resistance.

Wait, maybe one of the locking nuts on the valve adjusters came loose and that valve opened up.
Strip the body & tank, drop the radiators, pop off the valve covers = nope, all looks good.
Pull the plug, yes yes, pull the plug = electrode tip is missing, burned off, ceramic resistor is cracked. Where's the tip, somewhere inside the cylinder.

So, now you know what I know...

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post #4 of 47 Old 09-27-2008, 06:44 PM
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If it wasn't for bad luck jet, you wouldn't have any luck at all!

That SUCKS man.

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post #5 of 47 Old 09-27-2008, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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I'm going to take a shower so I can cry and nobody will notice.

damn, this bike is a real hoot when it works. My pre-exploratory fix guess will be a big bore kit. Wonder if they're giving those away next week?

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post #6 of 47 Old 09-27-2008, 07:23 PM
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Do you think maybe it's time to go back to Honda?

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post #7 of 47 Old 09-27-2008, 07:29 PM
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Honda? Why?
His 600rr burned oil & The motor in his RC imploded.
But Tarheel guy has that motor now. Wish him luck!

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post #8 of 47 Old 09-27-2008, 07:33 PM
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Sorry to hear of the misfortune! Sucks! Let's hope for the best.

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post #9 of 47 Old 09-27-2008, 07:38 PM
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wholly crap I hope you just bought a bike that had been riden very hard and put up wet!! Cause it can't be a testament of KTM I've heard they are better than that!! Here's hoping it holds together after this repair! But I believe I would look at everything, even the tranny!!!

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post #10 of 47 Old 09-27-2008, 07:46 PM
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broke a ring installing them!!! Thats my bet!

Been there done that! As a matter of fact that how I ended up stroking the 450. Switching to a High Compression piston and didn't realize I broke a ring, it got down into the crank bearings after getting chewed to hell. Figured since I was splitting the cases and replacing the crank I might as well put in a Stroker Crank in its place.

Either way, I think you need to split the case for a good cleaning and inspection of the bottom end this time also. I wish you the best of luck in your rebuild.

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post #11 of 47 Old 09-27-2008, 08:07 PM
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Bummer, good luck with hoping for minimal damage.

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post #12 of 47 Old 09-27-2008, 08:10 PM
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Holed the piston. Hope I'm wrong on this call Kevin.

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post #13 of 47 Old 09-27-2008, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondaf4iguy View Post
Honda? Why?
His 600rr burned oil & The motor in his RC imploded.
But Tarheel guy has that motor now. Wish him luck!
So it is just him then? Oh well.

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post #14 of 47 Old 09-27-2008, 08:54 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMulford View Post
Do you think maybe it's time to go back to Honda?
Not for a SM bike. Even $1000 into a bigbore kit puts me at a $5k total investment. I could not convert a CRF450 to the level of this KTM for less. And worse yet, at a component level the stock KTM puts the stock Honda to shame.

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post #15 of 47 Old 09-27-2008, 09:02 PM Thread Starter
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about 8 hours before I start tearing into it. Get your bets in now! So far we're overwhelmingly thinking it's a ring problem, I agree. We'll see.
Interesting pictures to come in the morning.

Wifey better want to cuddle, it's been a rough day.

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post #16 of 47 Old 09-27-2008, 09:11 PM
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I bet your neighbors sabotaged it...

Good luck tomorrow.

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post #17 of 47 Old 09-27-2008, 09:43 PM
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Wow that sucks to read about! Sorry to hear it man, I hope it's not too bad once you get her cracked open.

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post #18 of 47 Old 09-28-2008, 07:03 AM
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I think its just the kill switch.

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post #19 of 47 Old 09-28-2008, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
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I think its just the kill switch.


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post #20 of 47 Old 09-28-2008, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
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I think its just the kill switch.
.....or the loose nut behind the handle bars.

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post #21 of 47 Old 09-28-2008, 07:29 AM Thread Starter
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ready for this?


Spoiler:
piston is fine. rings are fine. cylinder walls are fine. the only thing I can find wrong is a burned up spark plug. aside from a burned up spark plug EVERYTHING else looks fine.
There is a lot of grit on the piston edges but that's residual spark plug electrode grit.
At this point I should be able to replace the timing chain master link, reassemble with a new plug and rock on.

I got really really lucky.

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post #22 of 47 Old 09-28-2008, 07:32 AM
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You lost compression through the spark plug? What caused the plug to self destruct?

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post #23 of 47 Old 09-28-2008, 07:36 AM Thread Starter
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I truly do not know. I can't find anything else wrong. The ceramic resistor is cracked, perhaps compression vented through the plug. It is bizarre, I'm not done looking but the 5 minute exam really sees nothing else wrong.

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post #24 of 47 Old 09-28-2008, 07:48 AM
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Hmmmm, Timing waaay off when it was assembled? We need Rob to weigh in on this one.

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post #25 of 47 Old 09-28-2008, 08:30 AM Thread Starter
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hmmmmm.
I found something. The cam timing chain gear is held to the cam by 2 bolts. These bolts were loose and the gear was moving around on the cam, fortunately it didn't shear off those 2 bolts. The chain wouldn't have jumped teeth because the tensioner was still tensioning the chain but perhaps there was enough play to throw it out of kilter. Still, the cam was secure in its races regardless.

Visually the cylinder shows wear that matches the piston skirt. I used a sewing needle to check for gouging and cannot feel any but I suspect the detonated spark plug tip might have contributed.

At this point I'm going to order a new compression ring, head gasket, spark plug and master link.

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post #26 of 47 Old 09-28-2008, 09:58 AM
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Wow Jet, bummer man. I too am curious what Rob or Mikey thinks, although they are out playing today so you may not hear from them.

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post #27 of 47 Old 09-28-2008, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetblast10 View Post
Not for a SM bike. Even $1000 into a bigbore kit puts me at a $5k total investment. I could not convert a CRF450 to the level of this KTM for less. And worse yet, at a component level the stock KTM puts the stock Honda to shame.

As long as you enjoy tinkering with the bike instead of riding




JK hopes you found all the issues!! Out of curiosity can you create some kind of seal around the old plug and blow air though it??

Good luck!!

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post #28 of 47 Old 09-28-2008, 10:25 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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As long as you enjoy tinkering with the bike instead of riding




JK hopes you found all the issues!! Out of curiosity can you create some kind of seal around the old plug and blow air though it??

Good luck!!
i put it in my mouth and blew, didn't seem to leak. I blew a spark plug.

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post #29 of 47 Old 09-28-2008, 10:42 AM
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Hope you didn't drop the plug before putting it in........not a good thing to bet on. You do "still "have cleartance between your pistion and spark plug (long reach plug or to thin of head gasket??? correct?

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post #30 of 47 Old 09-28-2008, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pegjumpflyer View Post
Hope you didn't drop the plug before putting it in........not a good thing to bet on. You do "still "have cleartance between your pistion and spark plug (long reach plug or to thin of head gasket??? correct?
Yep, all good there. The plug and piston didn't make contact.

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post #31 of 47 Old 09-28-2008, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
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i put it in my mouth and blew, didn't seem to leak. I blew a spark plug.
I was thinking of asking you do that but with this crowd your a brave man!!

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post #32 of 47 Old 09-28-2008, 12:35 PM
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So did you Spit the spark out or swallow it?

Oh man, I predict that from here on out this thread is going down hill.

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post #33 of 47 Old 09-28-2008, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
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So did you Spit the spark out or swallow it?

Oh man, I predict that from here on out this thread is going down hill.

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post #34 of 47 Old 09-28-2008, 01:38 PM
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Okay so they are finicky bitches....we all knew that.

The real question is, were you going good before she grenaded?

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post #35 of 47 Old 09-28-2008, 05:27 PM
 
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how does the clutch look? Did you do a compression test, besides the foreplay with the spark plug?

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post #36 of 47 Old 09-30-2008, 07:37 PM
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Fascinating. Just fascinating.

You got as much patience working on the bike as you do here on line?

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post #37 of 47 Old 09-30-2008, 09:33 PM
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seriously is the bike running again or still waiting parts??

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post #38 of 47 Old 10-02-2008, 10:46 AM
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But what happened to the broken plug tip? Did it just burn off or was it sucked past the valve? What brand of plug were you using that failed?
Glad to hear that you didn't have the dreaded swiss cheese effect to any metal.
Sounds like won't be long before that pleased as punch feeling sweeps over you again!


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post #39 of 47 Old 10-02-2008, 10:52 AM Thread Starter
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I believe much of the plug's tip disintegrated. There was grit inside the cylinder which must've come from the tip. Whatever was still solid probably blew out the exhaust.

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post #40 of 47 Old 10-02-2008, 10:57 AM
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As long as it didn't score the cylinder walls, all should be well, no?

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