What temp should the fan come on? 919 - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 24 Old 06-13-2010, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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What temp should the fan come on? 919

I just got finished installing some f4i gauges on my 2002 honda 919. And after replacing the temperature sensor, i still don't think the fan is coming on.
At what temperature is the fan supposed to come on? and what temperature is considered overheating? I would like to have the fan turn on autmatically, and if anyone has any suggestions that would be great.
Thanks

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post #2 of 24 Old 06-14-2010, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VoodooChild View Post
I just got finished installing some f4i gauges on my 2002 honda 919. And after replacing the temperature sensor, i still don't think the fan is coming on.
At what temperature is the fan supposed to come on? and what temperature is considered overheating? I would like to have the fan turn on autmatically, and if anyone has any suggestions that would be great.
Thanks
unfortunately by changing the coolant temp sensor you have probably changed the resistance values... and thus how the ecu determines if the motor is warmed up and when to turn the fan on.

The stock ECT should read between 2.1k and 2.6k ohms @ 80*C ... and .62-.76k ohms @ 120*C.

Changing to a different temp sensor with different values at the same temps will cause the ECU to think the motor is at a different temp.. and thus may or may not turn on the fan which the ecu is in control of.... the guage cluster has nothing to do with when the fan turns on and off.

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post #3 of 24 Old 06-14-2010, 07:35 PM Thread Starter
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Hmmm so, the only purpose of changing the temp sensor, was to have the gauges read the correct temp? but this in fact has probably thrown off the reading that the ecu is recieving? is there any downside to the ecu having a false reading?

-Lucas

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post #4 of 24 Old 06-14-2010, 07:55 PM
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yup... the ecu uses the temp sensor to 1. run in an enriched mode when its cold. 2. to turn the cooling fan on at a proper time and 3. possibly to adjust mapping when temps get to hot to try and cool the motor down (although dont hold me to that last one)

It seems as though the new temp sensor reads temps lower than what its actually at which is bad because it wont turn on the cooling fan in time, and 2 will keep the mapping rich for proper warm up or may never come out of the warm up phase which would cause quite a loss in performance.

Do some measurements on both to see the difference... and you might be able to get away with using the original one (which i would recommend anyways) but also get correct temp readings with the addition of the proper resistor.

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post #5 of 24 Old 06-14-2010, 11:26 PM Thread Starter
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Yep thats my plan, thanks for the help. Did you measure the resistance on your bike to get those values, or are they common knowledge? Also i wonder why 120 C is an important value, as that's a ways past the boiling point of water.

Thanks again for your help.
-Lucas

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post #6 of 24 Old 06-14-2010, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by VoodooChild View Post
Yep thats my plan, thanks for the help. Did you measure the resistance on your bike to get those values, or are they common knowledge? Also i wonder why 120 C is an important value, as that's a ways past the boiling point of water.

Thanks again for your help.
-Lucas
those were values in the services manual for the 919. the ECT has 3 wires... one common and 2 others. 1 that goes to the ecu... the other that goes to the gauge cluster. lets hope that the one that goes to the guage cluster increases resistance as temperature gets hotter.... but i doubt it and in that case ull have to get crafty.

also i would just measure at 80*C as thats much easier to heat water up to without any pressure haha.

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post #7 of 24 Old 06-15-2010, 08:05 AM
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You will be ahead of the game to map out the resistance curves of both sensors on the gauge side only: as nd4spdbh said there are two sensors combined in one housing, and the ECU sensor is the critical one for fan operation. What I recommend is to use the 919 sensor and adjust the gauge side with either a series or parallel resistor to drive the F4i readout.

Considering how often the 919 overheats, never as long as the fan is working, I'd use the original sensor to make sure the fan operates properly and tweak the gauge side for your instrument. You don't really need to know how hot things are as long as the ECU does, but it would be nice to have the gauges read properly.

Once you have got the resistance swings for both sensors post them up and I'll help to work out the proper resistor array to get the gauge back in the game. This will be valuable information for anyone who has already done the swap or is considering it.

Rob

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On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
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post #8 of 24 Old 06-15-2010, 04:59 PM Thread Starter
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I will do my best, but it might take a bit because i'm swamped with summer classes.
On a side note i wish someone had mentioned that buying the f4i sensor was a complete waste of money.

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post #9 of 24 Old 07-13-2010, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VoodooChild View Post
I will do my best, but it might take a bit because i'm swamped with summer classes.
On a side note i wish someone had mentioned that buying the f4i sensor was a complete waste of money.

f4i ECT sensor will work just fine, it's wasn't waist of money, it was needed to make it all work correctly


Your ECU won't be screwed up either, f4i sensor and 919 have the same parameters according to honda:
Temperature 80C 168"F 120'C 248"F
Resistance 2.1 - 2.6 kOhm 0.62- 0.76kOhm

and ECU receives the same values as it did with 919 sensor.
The difference is ECT's side that goes to gauges: 919 and f4i temp gauges are different and require specific values. f4i ECT has different internal resistor on the side that goes to gauges hence 919 ECT gives wrong value to f4i gauges

As far as fan goes: it should come on just like specified in the manual:

fan motor kick in 208-216F, out at 199-207F
your thermostat is fully open at 203F

If it doesn't come on at the above values, you have an issue somewhere else
PM me if you have any other questions.

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post #10 of 24 Old 07-13-2010, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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Hmmmm, so the ect should be getting the same reading from both sensors?
It seemed like the bike took a second longer to start when having the f4i sensor in it.
I put the stock sensor back in, and the fan kicks on just fine (however i did realize that it doesn't need to kick on very often)

I might give it another shot.
First i have to fix the gas smelling problem its got right now

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post #11 of 24 Old 07-13-2010, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VoodooChild View Post
Hmmmm, so the ect should be getting the same reading from both sensors?
It seemed like the bike took a second longer to start when having the f4i sensor in it.
I put the stock sensor back in, and the fan kicks on just fine (however i did realize that it doesn't need to kick on very often)

I might give it another shot.
First i have to fix the gas smelling problem its got right now
yep, it won't affect ECU period. Your fan should kick in at around 208-216F (thanks to f4i gauges you can actually observe that reading).
Did you figure out how to make f4i fuel gauge working? If not, it's very simple: connect your side stand wire to f4i gauges. You don't need to go all the way to the side stand switch, you can pick it up at the clutch switch harness.

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post #12 of 24 Old 07-14-2010, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
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Geez i would love to have the fuel gaues work. Where am i supposed to connect the side stand switch?

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post #13 of 24 Old 07-14-2010, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VoodooChild View Post
Geez i would love to have the fuel gaues work. Where am i supposed to connect the side stand switch?
919 side stand switch is connected to clutch switch on the handlebars.
find the harness that goes from your clutch switch (handlebars, left side ) and locate its connectors that go to the mai harness in the headlight. Clutch switch has 2 black wires on its harness side and connects to green/red and green/white on the main harness.
splice a wire into G/W and take to side stand wire on the gauge harness (green/white on f4i harness as well)

The reason for this connection: f4i fuel gauge is using the side stand switch to reset a fuel gauge after fill up (read f4i manual)
I've read numerous f4i gauge swaps and yet to see anyone to question this connection on the gauges. F4i gauges have side stand terminal but no side stand indicator/led/bulb. If your read the manual, fuel gauge is the only reason that connection is there. have fun

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post #14 of 24 Old 07-14-2010, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
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Son of a bitch, your a genius. I'll give it a shot. I really appreciate the help....

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post #15 of 24 Old 07-14-2010, 10:14 PM
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yes but does the fuel pump send out the proper signal to determine the amount of fuel? also then wouldnt the side stand thing reset it everytime you stopped the bike?

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post #16 of 24 Old 07-15-2010, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
yes but does the fuel pump send out the proper signal to determine the amount of fuel? also then wouldnt the side stand thing reset it everytime you stopped the bike?
no it won't reset and yes, it determines a proper amount of reserve, it's tested. Once you fill up and put up your side stand, it will reset in 90 sec with ign ON.
If you fill up and side stand is still down, it won't reset until the stand is up


Where is my gas / fuel gauge? | Honda CBR 600 F4i Information

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post #17 of 24 Old 07-15-2010, 09:41 AM
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ah got it :-)

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post #18 of 24 Old 07-20-2010, 03:35 PM
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I would love to have new gauges. f4i seem the way to go..could someone help me out with possibly a list of everything i would need to do this swap..or maybe a link...thanks

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post #19 of 24 Old 07-20-2010, 06:45 PM Thread Starter
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post #20 of 24 Old 07-20-2010, 09:42 PM
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Nice write up, wish I would have had the connection you posted for the hitachi connector, every where I saw wanted like 9-12 bucks shipping so I went to radio shack and bought a male and female there and re wired, a single good connector would been a a bit easier.

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post #21 of 24 Old 03-08-2013, 08:44 AM
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Not to bring up an old thread, but, with me getting a new gauge, I was just thinking... Will this work with any gauge that has a fuel indicator? Or just the f4i? I just got this gauge...
https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...nit-32567.html
As you can see in the wiring diagram, #9 is fuel indicator. Would I connect this to the G/W wire in the harness? Would it work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaq123 View Post
919 side stand switch is connected to clutch switch on the handlebars.
find the harness that goes from your clutch switch (handlebars, left side ) and locate its connectors that go to the mai harness in the headlight. Clutch switch has 2 black wires on its harness side and connects to green/red and green/white on the main harness.
splice a wire into G/W and take to side stand wire on the gauge harness (green/white on f4i harness as well)

The reason for this connection: f4i fuel gauge is using the side stand switch to reset a fuel gauge after fill up (read f4i manual)
I've read numerous f4i gauge swaps and yet to see anyone to question this connection on the gauges. F4i gauges have side stand terminal but no side stand indicator/led/bulb. If your read the manual, fuel gauge is the only reason that connection is there. have fun

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post #22 of 24 Old 03-08-2013, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpolunin View Post
Not to bring up an old thread, but, with me getting a new gauge, I was just thinking... Will this work with any gauge that has a fuel indicator? Or just the f4i? I just got this gauge...
https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...nit-32567.html
As you can see in the wiring diagram, #9 is fuel indicator. Would I connect this to the G/W wire in the harness? Would it work?
For the fan switch, just follow what Robtharlson mentions and you should be fine.

As for the fuel gauge, check out this thread of which robtharlson came to the rescue: https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...led-26327.html

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post #23 of 24 Old 03-08-2013, 09:39 AM
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Yea, I already ordered Robs thingy... but also wanted to see if the connection mentioned on the post as far as connecting the fuel gauge on f4i cluster will work on other gauges as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
For the fan switch, just follow what Robtharlson mentions and you should be fine.

As for the fuel gauge, check out this thread of which robtharlson came to the rescue: https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...led-26327.html

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post #24 of 24 Old 03-08-2013, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpolunin View Post
Yea, I already ordered Robs thingy... but also wanted to see if the connection mentioned on the post as far as connecting the fuel gauge on f4i cluster will work on other gauges as well.
Oh I see, I misunderstood your question. Sorry I don't know and don't have an answer for you. Hopefully someone else with the knowledge will chime in soon!

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