Use Protection - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 24 Old 08-21-2008, 08:16 AM Thread Starter
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Use Protection

So I'm all about using good gear every time I ride. I have a good leather jacket, helmet, boots, and gloves, but usually just ride in my jeans. Even though a lot of geared up people seem to skip buying protection for below the waist, not sure jeans would really hold up.

Anyone have experience if they do anything? Also, any recommendations for something I could wear to put over jeans or workpants thats not insanely hot for the summer?

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post #2 of 24 Old 08-21-2008, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotRPI View Post
Anyone have experience if they do anything?
I found out firsthand that they delay the road rash by about 3 one thousandths of a second... And yet I've still to buy a good pair of riding pants.

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post #3 of 24 Old 08-21-2008, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotRPI View Post
So I'm all about using good gear every time I ride. I have a good leather jacket, helmet, boots, and gloves, but usually just ride in my jeans. Even though a lot of geared up people seem to skip buying protection for below the waist, not sure jeans would really hold up.

Anyone have experience if they do anything? Also, any recommendations for something I could wear to put over jeans or workpants thats not insanely hot for the summer?
ATGATT is the way to go - always! For pants, any riding pants will do if you don't want to go with leather. Manufacturers use re-inforced textiles to make them. Jeans will ABSOLUTELY NOT hold up in even the slightest fall. You have a good choice of gear out there these days - many brands offer you many choices, from Khaki styles to jeans styles. If possible, try to get something that has some type of padding. Abrasion is one thing, impact is another.

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post #4 of 24 Old 08-21-2008, 08:53 AM
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Try the Bohn air mesh pants. Speaking from experience they hold up well in low sides . They will fit under any pair of pants and take literally 20 seconds to put on and off (Yes, I timed myself) and they offer protection on knees, shins, hips, tighs, and coxic/tailbone. I highly recommend them.

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post #5 of 24 Old 08-21-2008, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Fishfilet300 View Post
Try the Bohn air mesh pants. Speaking from experience they hold up well in low sides . They will fit under any pair of pants and take literally 20 seconds to put on and off (Yes, I timed myself) and they offer protection on knees, shins, hips, tighs, and coxic/tailbone. I highly recommend them.
+1

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post #6 of 24 Old 08-21-2008, 10:11 AM
 
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post #7 of 24 Old 08-21-2008, 10:50 AM
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Jeans do nothing! But its a calculated risk that we all take and even wearing full gear the worst can happen! Sucks but its true. I say do the most you can deal with paying for and feel comfortable in with time to put on and off commuting to work everyday those Bohn air mesh pants mentioned earlier would be very cumbersome for me but obviously not for others. Either way jeans do nothing and I use some AlpineStars knee protection probably not going to do alot for sliding or the rest of my behind but that intial hit might not hurt so bad and they are a little easier to deal with as they fit under most of my loose fitting pants, some are tight though. When the heat goes way i have textile pants with knee pads hip pads that i pull over my pants. I've tried mesh pull over pants as well and just to hot

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post #8 of 24 Old 08-21-2008, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
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And ATGATT stands for? ...

A sudden catastrophic stop doesn't freak me out as much as a slide without wearing some type of abbrasive resistant protection. Something about the horrible pain, scars, and grafting my ass where other parts of my body use to be.

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post #9 of 24 Old 08-21-2008, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotRPI View Post
And ATGATT stands for? ...

A sudden catastrophic stop doesn't freak me out as much as a slide without wearing some type of abbrasive resistant protection. Something about the horrible pain, scars, and grafting my ass where other parts of my body use to be.
then you certainly need some type of pants!!

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post #10 of 24 Old 08-21-2008, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotRPI View Post
And ATGATT stands for? ...

A sudden catastrophic stop doesn't freak me out as much as a slide without wearing some type of abbrasive resistant protection. Something about the horrible pain, scars, and grafting my ass where other parts of my body use to be.
ATGATT - All The Gear All The Time. Get pants that were made for riding. Even the denim types in that category have coating to help with abrasion resistance.

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post #11 of 24 Old 08-21-2008, 11:42 AM
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This will answer your question
www.ride2die.com

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post #12 of 24 Old 08-21-2008, 11:44 AM
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wear leather

unfortunately, leather is the only way to go. i posted here last year about the relative protection offered by different materials - the thread is here:

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=9498

if you're going to be at freeway speeds at any point, i don't think any material except leather will do. everything else will burn away quickly when sliding on the pavement - even materials designed for motorcycle riding.

i have a full leather suit i wear all the time (atgatt - also includes helmet, gloves, and boots). the suit is made by cortech. i leave the jacket attached to the pants (full circumference zipper), and can put the whole suit on over my street clothes in about 30 seconds; the suit comes off in about 10 seconds. they are 'over pants' - meant to be worn over jeans or other pants. this means i don't need a bathroom to change in - i can just slip into or out of the gear no matter where i am.

the only downside is that it is hot during the summer (when at a standstill) - so after 2 years of sweating during the summer i recently added a second suit, same brand, of perforated leather. much better. they're not cheap, but they're really not too expensive either... the whole suit can be had for about $450. i like cortech because the leathers are comfortable, well designed, and are just simple and black, no significant logos or blaring messages.

i found out earlier this week that an acquaintence of mine laid his bike down on the freeway. he was cut off by someone crossing through two lanes. he was wearing shorts and a tshirt. luckily traffic (and he) was only going about 25 when it happened - otherwise he would probably be dead (given his lack or protection). as it is, his left arm and leg are quite burned up. the first thing he said to me when he told me about the accident is that now he's going to get leathers (which i had recommended to him in the past).

its up to you how you decide to protect yourself, but i would recommend leather. many people seem to get more/better gear after a wreck - but wouldn't it make more sense to get the gear before the wreck?

...j919

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post #13 of 24 Old 08-21-2008, 12:07 PM
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Holy Craap! that Ride2Die site is impactful. I don't care how many years you've been riding or all your track experience, that site can freak you out enough to be more careful, cautious, defensive, and protected.
I got the heebie jeebies.

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post #14 of 24 Old 08-21-2008, 06:26 PM
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try these, i got the jacket, awesome reviews
http://www.cortechperformance.com/xc...tid=252&cat=26





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post #15 of 24 Old 08-21-2008, 10:37 PM
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There is another downside to jeans -- in tearing when they hit the tarmac, the fabric actually has considerably more "grab" than either leather or Ballistic nylon. The initial impact with the ground is almost twice as likely to cause you to tumble as proper riding gear, and tumbling is a wonderful way to break a variety of bones as you flail down the road. The one time I crashed in leathers, coming up to turn 8 at the old Ontario speedway, depositing me on the track at about 80, I just slid along as pretty as you please. Well, with one exception: always count to three once you think you've stopped sliding and go to stand up, otherwise ... you get the picture.

When xrmikey participates in my rides he wears a pair of Kevlar jeans which seem to be a viable alternative to leather. I'll ask for an evaluation the next time I see him.

Rob

If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
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post #16 of 24 Old 08-22-2008, 09:49 PM
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I think there are just two questions to ask here... Neither of which can be answered in a single sentence, a single paragraph or a single book on crash science.. They are...

1. What is the best gear to wear...???

which is directly related to the second question...

2. What is the best accident to suffer...???

in terms of saftiness....

Just in my opinion, in order to know what gear to wear, you have to know roughly what type of accident you are trying to protect yourself from,, AND,, since accidents happen are never planned (or they would be accidents) and they usually happen when you least expect them or least prepared for them, it is all but impossible to know what to 'truly' wear.

Sliding down the road is far different from hitting a truck head on, which is in turn different from going going over a bank into a river. Years ago, I wound up being dragged around a corner by a car turning infront of me as I passed it. I went under the car and out the back end and got a nice tyreprint across my belly. I lay there breahtless for a few seconds on the road, too scared to even try to breath as I truly thought my number was up. I got a bruised tummy but the worst thing I suffered that day was a cut across my knee caused by something protruding under the car. That was scary... From memory, that day I never had a leather jacket on as it was cold and wet so I bulked up with woolens instead.
Another day I slid, on my hand and knees, under a barbed wire fence and it left huge scratches right above the visor line. If I had have lifted my head up during the slide, by maybe 4 or 5 inches more, I may have lost my head, literally...

My point is that you really can't dress for the ocassion but you can "try" to reduce the odds by wearing "something" protective. Personally, I swear by leather, but in the middle of summer, it kills me (bad choice of words) with overheating. I wear kevlar reinforced jeans quite a lot but I try to wear leather jeans as much as possible. My brother and friends wear mainly cordura. I have cordura's but have never worn them as even in the most moderate conditions this stuff cooks me alive. I must be cold blooded as I like the breeze, even in cold weather. I don't hate the cold wind in my face or down my neck, unless it is freeze your b*lls off stuff, which we seldom get here. I even wear very thin summer O'Neal leather gloves with no lining through winter, just like a second skin and have great feel. They're about 15 years old and since I treated them with bees wax when I bought them, they are like brand new...

You can only try your best to survive. Anything is better than nothing...!!!

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post #17 of 24 Old 08-23-2008, 08:32 AM
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try finding a pair of 38waist 40 leangth riding pants/ it sucks to 6' 7" sometimes.

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post #18 of 24 Old 08-23-2008, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CeeBee919 View Post
I think there are just two questions to ask here... Neither of which can be answered in a single sentence, a single paragraph or a single book on crash science.. They are...

1. What is the best gear to wear...???

which is directly related to the second question...

2. What is the best accident to suffer...???

in terms of saftiness....

Just in my opinion, in order to know what gear to wear, you have to know roughly what type of accident you are trying to protect yourself from,, AND,, since accidents happen are never planned (or they would be accidents) and they usually happen when you least expect them or least prepared for them, it is all but impossible to know what to 'truly' wear.


Sliding down the road is far different from hitting a truck head on, which is in turn different from going going over a bank into a river. Years ago, I wound up being dragged around a corner by a car turning infront of me as I passed it. I went under the car and out the back end and got a nice tyreprint across my belly. I lay there breahtless for a few seconds on the road, too scared to even try to breath as I truly thought my number was up. I got a bruised tummy but the worst thing I suffered that day was a cut across my knee caused by something protruding under the car. That was scary... From memory, that day I never had a leather jacket on as it was cold and wet so I bulked up with woolens instead.
Another day I slid, on my hand and knees, under a barbed wire fence and it left huge scratches right above the visor line. If I had have lifted my head up during the slide, by maybe 4 or 5 inches more, I may have lost my head, literally...

My point is that you really can't dress for the ocassion but you can "try" to reduce the odds by wearing "something" protective.
Personally, I swear by leather, but in the middle of summer, it kills me (bad choice of words) with overheating. I wear kevlar reinforced jeans quite a lot but I try to wear leather jeans as much as possible. My brother and friends wear mainly cordura. I have cordura's but have never worn them as even in the most moderate conditions this stuff cooks me alive. I must be cold blooded as I like the breeze, even in cold weather. I don't hate the cold wind in my face or down my neck, unless it is freeze your b*lls off stuff, which we seldom get here. I even wear very thin summer O'Neal leather gloves with no lining through winter, just like a second skin and have great feel. They're about 15 years old and since I treated them with bees wax when I bought them, they are like brand new...

You can only try your best to survive. Anything is better than nothing...!!!
I was not sure what you meant initially Ceebee... but I re-read and concur with you that you cannot plan what kind of accident you will have.

Rob also made a very important point about jeans. They grab... meaning they create more resistance or friction than leather or specially treaded textiles. What that does is increase the heat from friction meaning you get more burns on your skin. Also, by grabbing they can affect your trajectory or direction of your slide and punt you around - so NOT good.

As most everyone indicates, leather is the best protection again abrasion and also shear / tear forces. If you are concerned about heat - you can get 1.2mm European standard leather that is perforated. Yes - perforations increase the chance of rips or tears but are significantly better than textiles.

That said though, credit is due to manufacturers like Fieldsheer. They have a new jacket using a new textile technology that mimics the properties of leather. I was impressed by it. No one has used it for pants yet or suits.... but it heralds a promising future for textiles and an alternative to leather.

If you can, go with leather always. If not, get a textile apparel that uses high grade materials like multi-layer / count cordura, but knowthat you are losing some of the properties leather will offer you.

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post #19 of 24 Old 08-23-2008, 06:03 PM
 
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A guy I know on another forum who just wiped out a couple of days ago while wearing jeans. He said he's got strawberry knees now.

Or is it called raspberry knees?

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post #20 of 24 Old 08-23-2008, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIM-RC51 View Post
I was not sure what you meant initially Ceebee... but I re-read and concur with you that you cannot plan what kind of accident you will have.
You got it WIM-RC51...
Since I started riding way back last century (geeez what a thing to have to admit to), I had quite a few accidents, some of which could have hurt a lot less if I had worn the appropriate gear for that particular accident, but because I, just like anyone else who ever had an accident, never knew what was about to happen to me, I never knew what to wear. Some of the very worst crashes were when cars pulled out at intersections and I went into them or they hit me. Leather or jeans certainly did not help on those occasions other than to hold all my bones in the same place,, and it's heartbreaking to see your best leather jacket being cut away from you in hospital... Body armour would have helped a great deal in those days but it wasn't even heard of back then...

Who knows, in 10 or 20 years time there might be some super duper protective gear out that makes todays stuff look prehistoric... All said, I would still rather wear a helmet (Shoei for me) and leather jacket, trousers, gloves, boots etc. I can still remember the days when it was NOT compulsory to wear a helmet over this way. What were we thinking of back then..???

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post #21 of 24 Old 08-24-2008, 08:47 AM
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I would rather lose a cow's skin in an accident than MY skin. I have worked in the trauma room of several major teaching hospitals in the South for many years and seen quite a few motorcycle accidents. It is true what CeeBee919 said about the hospital staff cutting through your clothing to remove it as opposed to just unzipping, un buttoning your stuff and taking it off like you put it on. Our scissors can and we do cut through pennies just fooling around.
Most serious injuries are from not wearing a helmet. All it takes is one good whack onto hard pavement and a skull has a fracture and all that goes with a swollen brain. Swollen Brain and a restrictive space inside your skull equal deadly pressures which even with all the most modern procedures in play is still deadly. Road rash is as serious as a burn and a rider can spend many moons in the burn center being debrided just as someone who was caught up in a house fire. So ATGATT when riding cause we never take off planning to have an accident.
Alcohol is the leading cause of death that I've seen in late night single vehicle accidents involving motor bikes. Seen way to many people that left the bars on the Isle of Palms at closing time riding back home via I-26 not judge the curve and cut themselves literally in half on one of the guard rails. One night the EMS guys were working a scene where after picking up all the body parts it took to make up a human stumbled on something in the dark, he switched on his light and found a third hand.
The rider had a female passenger.
Neither of them where wearing helmets much less jackets or gloves, wouldn't have done much anyway as like I said there were cut into pieces.
That story didn't make the TV news or papers, probably should have.
South Carolina only recommends that you wear protective gear, some riders here don't even wear eye protection. Most ridiculous lack of laws I've ever seen, The Po-Po will write a non seat belted passenger in an auto a ticket but not do a thing when a rider is only wearing shorts and flip flops as long as he is observing the speed limit.
BTW- if you make a request for the hospital to repay you for the cut up jackets and stuff, they usually will. Most folks are just glad to be alive and don't ask upon discharge.
Ride Safe,


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USA
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post #22 of 24 Old 08-25-2008, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Naked/SS View Post
(1)..It is true what CeeBee919 said about the hospital staff cutting through your clothing to remove it as opposed to just unzipping, un buttoning your stuff and taking it off like you put it on.

(2)..Most serious injuries are from not wearing a helmet. All it takes is one good whack onto hard pavement and a skull has a fracture and all that goes with a swollen brain. Swollen Brain and a restrictive space inside your skull equal deadly pressures which even with all the most modern procedures in play is still deadly.

(3)..Road rash is as serious as a burn and a rider can spend many moons in the burn center being debrided just as someone who was caught up in a house fire. So ATGATT when riding cause we never take off planning to have an accident.
1. Even though I cried inside once when I saw my leather jacket being cut away, I was in no mind to say "Hey DON'T"... Mainly because these guys/gals were in the act of possibly saving my life and I couldn't be moved without severe pain so at the end of the day, I could buy another jacket. As it turned out I ruptured a kidney and had my pelvis smashed in and a few broken ribs. I was lucky that all I had to do was recover but at the time when I peed into a bottle and saw red, I almost started praying as it was truly a frightening sight. I look upon hospital staff as truly amazing and dedicated people and NEVER argue with them when they are doing their job...

2. I was watching Discovery channel the other day about E.R stories where a women was shot in the brain and she didn't even know it. They arrived at the scene and she was only concerned for her dead boy-friend/husband, also shot. She was quite lively and had her full wits about her. They took her to hospital where she very suddenly went into a vegetable state as the swollen brain kicked in. Even though the bullet hole entry gave just enough room to ease the swelling it soon took its toll. Unfortunately they told her family that she is on a respirator and will only ever be alive (if that's what you wanted to call it) because of it. The family had to decide Yes or No... I switched channels as this moment was just too much for me to watch without going into deep thought... I never really knew what brain swelling actually was until I saw this program...

3. I once fell off my bike while showing off cornering at high speed infront of a couple of ladies. I was only about 19 and was wearing, you guessed it,, jeans. I slid on my backside for about 10 yards into the gutter and when I picked myself up and started to push my bike home, I looked down to see blood running down my buttock and leg. Aggghhhh... The jean was completely rubbed away from the butt to almost my knee and I was bleeding like a stuck pig. I lived only about 200 yards from the scene so as soon as I got home I cleaned the huge wound, which was now feeling like it was on fire. It looked like raw singed meat and I simply bandaged it up myself.. Mistake number one.. In the next few days of utter agony, it pussed up and got real nasty then it seemed to be healing. Phewww, no need to go to the doctor. Mistake number two.. This raw flesh, even though I kept it seemingly clean and well dressed, was on fire for about 2 weeks. You know what??? I simply endured it and got on with life. Eventually a layer of clear skin formed over it and it gradually got better. I will never be so foolish ever again (Lord forbid it should ever happen to me again). Looking back, I cannot believe I let this go so far without proper medical treatment... Part of growing up I suppose...

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post #23 of 24 Old 08-25-2008, 05:23 PM
 
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if you're going to be at freeway speeds at any point, i don't think any material except leather will do. everything else will burn away quickly when sliding on the pavement - even materials designed for motorcycle riding.
This may be true on some other planet but not here. I agree with you that leather is the best protection, but the notion that "everything else will burn away quickly" is completely false. When have you ever heard of any decent textile/mesh jacket or pants actualy burning up in an accident, I never have. And I have heard of many accidents with textile/mesh gear and the majority of the time said gear held up well and did its job.

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post #24 of 24 Old 08-25-2008, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by motorwerks919 View Post
This may be true on some other planet but not here. I agree with you that leather is the best protection, but the notion that "everything else will burn away quickly" is completely false. When have you ever heard of any decent textile/mesh jacket or pants actualy burning up in an accident, I never have. And I have heard of many accidents with textile/mesh gear and the majority of the time said gear held up well and did its job.
Just had to chime in here a little bit and offer a little word... there is some validity to what j919 said. So far, there has been no other material that can match leather's abrasion properties - which includes the ability to survive friction heat or burn. Though textile do not literally go up in flames, they will to suffer more from abrasion and friction and do indeed generate more heat than leather. This is why most textiles will have rips from burnt through points or burn through the seams or joints.

Most textiles are nylon or synthetic based, and true many have special coatings applied to help make them more resistant, their sheer nature makes them susceptible to heat, and thus burning. Though, burning does not mean literally up in smoke.

As for the ER team cutting your apparel off. One of the main reasons is that they do not want to move your limbs or body as it may cause you more injury and pain. Thus they tend to leave you laying still and cut of the apparel to see where you have injuries and try to stabilize you before moving you. Trust me, you do not want an ER guy trying to pull a jacket, suit or pants off you after you had an accident. God Save The ER Scissors!

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