two brothers juicebox - anyone using - Wrist Twisters
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 26 Old 11-22-2010, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
Tesserarius
 
Stutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Macon, ga
Posts: 717
Rep Power: 1
 
two brothers juicebox - anyone using

I am looking at the two bros single side exhaust for my 919 and
was wondering if TBR's juicebox is better than the power commander.

Stutz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 Old 11-22-2010, 01:49 PM
Hastatus Posterior
 
Farab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 1,454
Rep Power: 1
 
From what I understand, the Juicebox is a plug and play. Also an adjust whilst on the move type setup (little control panel at handle bar).

I know a guy with a Z1000 running one with 2 Bros exhausts and swears by it.

Farab is offline  
post #3 of 26 Old 11-22-2010, 02:08 PM
Pilus Posterior
 
AllanB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,101
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 1
 
The only thing I don't know is can the 2Bros unit be plugged into a dyno and a custom map written for every 250 rpm of the bike like a PC can?

I'd check on this type of info prior to purchasing.

AllanB is offline  
post #4 of 26 Old 11-22-2010, 02:26 PM
Hastatus Posterior
 
Farab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 1,454
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
The only thing I don't know is can the 2Bros unit be plugged into a dyno and a custom map written for every 250 rpm of the bike like a PC can?

I'd check on this type of info prior to purchasing.
I'm talking under correction, but from what I understand, this is the whole idea of the JB, to plug-and-play, without going the more expnesive PC and dyno route.

Farab is offline  
post #5 of 26 Old 11-22-2010, 03:55 PM
Le So Cal Troll
 
nd4spdbh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: So Cal
Posts: 5,766
Rep Power: 1
 
pretty sure the juice box can only do addition of fuel.... which is not what the 919 needs.

nd4spdbh is offline  
post #6 of 26 Old 11-23-2010, 05:57 AM Thread Starter
Tesserarius
 
Stutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Macon, ga
Posts: 717
Rep Power: 1
 
If I get the TBR right side high pipe and the juice box loaded
with TBR's map everything should be fine. The juice box pro
sounds great. No 919 listing though.


Ľ Pre-programmed with TBR Power Maps specific to make, model and style of TBR Exhaust and/or TBR Pro Filter.



http://www.twobros.com/Perf_Products...nder_chart.pdf


Stutz is offline  
post #7 of 26 Old 11-23-2010, 07:50 AM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,652
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
pretty sure the juice box can only do addition of fuel.... which is not what the 919 needs.
"which is not what the 919 needs"

You nailed that nicely and ever so true.

mcromo44 is offline  
post #8 of 26 Old 11-23-2010, 08:49 AM
The Cripple
 
Pvster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 8,768
Rep Power: 1
 
stutz, the problem with the juicebox is that it only adds fuel, not lean out the mixture where it's needed on the rpm range as well. dont waste your money. pick up a used PCIII and depending on your elevation, throw on the morwaki's map that LDH tuned.

Pvster is offline  
post #9 of 26 Old 11-23-2010, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
Tesserarius
 
Stutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Macon, ga
Posts: 717
Rep Power: 1
 
Cool Thanks

Stutz is offline  
post #10 of 26 Old 11-23-2010, 09:22 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,652
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stutz View Post
Cool Thanks
See the attached re why adding fuel and just adding fuel is bad news.


Green means more fuel needed. (the numbers tell you my how much)
Pink means less fuel is needed.
No colouring means stock map fuel amount is OK as is.
So it's a no brainer than adding fuel across the board is the wrong thing to do.
Re a 919 that is.
This map is definitive in terms of good slips ons being in use with a 919.
Other good maps will vary, but not be radically different.
In other words, if you have good slip ons and a map that is wildly different, be very suspicious of the map.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg LDH Mori V4 map 919.jpg (148.2 KB, 30 views)

mcromo44 is offline  
post #11 of 26 Old 11-23-2010, 11:10 PM
Princeps Prior
 
arctic954's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 1,816
Rep Power: 1
 
.......after I mounted my Single sided Arrow w/ 2 brothers mid-pipe. I did a test by shutting off my power commander. The bike pulled the hardest it ever had since I owned it. So.....I pulled off my pciiiusb and sold it.

Not saying this is a solution for everyone.....but, You take a bike that runs on the rich side and lean it out a little with a freer flowing pipe, you might get lucky enough to have the bike running in that sweet spot without a pciii.


Could I find another hp here or there.....sure! Is it worth a $250 pciii and a $300 tune? Nope.......

arctic954 is offline  
post #12 of 26 Old 11-23-2010, 11:43 PM
Le So Cal Troll
 
nd4spdbh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: So Cal
Posts: 5,766
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic954 View Post
.......after I mounted my Single sided Arrow w/ 2 brothers mid-pipe. I did a test by shutting off my power commander. The bike pulled the hardest it ever had since I owned it. So.....I pulled off my pciiiusb and sold it.

Not saying this is a solution for everyone.....but, You take a bike that runs on the rich side and lean it out a little with a freer flowing pipe, you might get lucky enough to have the bike running in that sweet spot without a pciii.


Could I find another hp here or there.....sure! Is it worth a $250 pciii and a $300 tune? Nope.......
exactly my thought process... and im runnin bone stock.... i MIGHT get slight better throttle responce and smoothness and a coupla hp... but worth the 600 bucks? naw id rather spend that on gas and ride the shit out of the bike.

nd4spdbh is offline  
post #13 of 26 Old 11-24-2010, 08:43 AM
Aquilifer
 
PAULIBIKER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ankeny, Iowa
Posts: 1,227
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic954 View Post
.......after I mounted my Single sided Arrow w/ 2 brothers mid-pipe. I did a test by shutting off my power commander. The bike pulled the hardest it ever had since I owned it. So.....I pulled off my pciiiusb and sold it.

Not saying this is a solution for everyone.....but, You take a bike that runs on the rich side and lean it out a little with a freer flowing pipe, you might get lucky enough to have the bike running in that sweet spot without a pciii.


Could I find another hp here or there.....sure! Is it worth a $250 pciii and a $300 tune? Nope.......
That's close to my set-up and stock works perfect!

PAULIBIKER is offline  
post #14 of 26 Old 11-24-2010, 09:55 AM
The Cripple
 
Pvster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 8,768
Rep Power: 1
 
interesting because i dont follow the same path you guys are on. my pc3 was free (was on first bike i purchased). after riding that bike and my current bike with no pc3, i see a real need for the pc3, more so down low and in city traffic. bike does NOT want to be loaded down under 1.8k rpms. and cannot maintain itself at speed under 1.2-1.4k rpms without lugging the engine.. alot of clutch slippage is needed in stop/go traffic.

gonna get the pc3 installed and dyno'ed by someone who wont charge me $250 lol. it'll be worth it because i'm not looking for a couple more hp here and there. i'm looking for more communutability.

Pvster is offline  
post #15 of 26 Old 11-24-2010, 10:06 AM
Princeps Prior
 
arctic954's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 1,816
Rep Power: 1
 
Yeah.....depending on your combination.....it is very possible. In the past, I've found that stumbling was caused by small lean spots in the air/fuel curve.....have been somewhat successful correcting these issues myself...... When your bike stumbles or lurches at low rpm....watch your rpm gauge - and take a mental note of the amount of throttle your using.

Go on the pciii software and add fuel to the general area.....(add +2 more to the area). Your area of concern will probably be around 10-20% throttle and 1800-2500 rpm....

You won't hurt anything by adding fuel.....if it doesn't work....add a little more.....

You can always default back to where you started if you save your map before tweaking......

Doing this is FREE!

arctic954 is offline  
post #16 of 26 Old 11-24-2010, 01:13 PM
Hastatus Posterior
 
Farab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 1,454
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
exactly my thought process... and im runnin bone stock.... i MIGHT get slight better throttle responce and smoothness and a coupla hp... but worth the 600 bucks? naw id rather spend that on gas and ride the shit out of the bike.
Same here.

Farab is offline  
post #17 of 26 Old 11-24-2010, 01:50 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,652
Rep Power: 1
 
Mine was absolutely aweful with TRSs and the stock map in slow and stop and go city traffic. And it stunk worse too. Even my wife noticed a difference in the idle sound after the PCIII went on, and I did not even prompt her.... "hey, it sounds different, what did you do ? "

mcromo44 is offline  
post #18 of 26 Old 01-14-2011, 08:21 AM
Shawn
 
ohfour919's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 174
Rep Power: 1
 
Thumbs down Does NOT play well with PC3USB!

Not sure if the OP ever got his question answered, but here is my 2 cents worth...

On my last 919 (an '07) I installed a PC3USB a few days after the Yoshi TRS slip-ons and catless Y-Pipe and after a few tweeks, got it mapped just right. But being a guy who had a fat wallet (at the time) and always wanting to buy and add cool new stuff, I bought a Juice Box. Pretty simple installation. Each line goes between each injector. One was a bitch but the other 3 were smooth. Figuring out how to get it adjusted just right was the hardest part, but I finally got it.

Well, I was in for a bit of a surprise! Apparently the Juice Box does not play well with the Power Commander! The bike actually rand WORSE with both of them hooked up at the same time! I even had my pro-bike racer friend give me his opinion and he agreed. So, just to see which would do me more justice, I unplugged the PC3 and tried the Juice Box by itself. Not much of any noticeable improvements, and I certainly noticed less instant throttle response that I had with the PC3. Then I removed the Juice Box and tried the PC3 by itself and was VERY impressed. There was a huge difference in all regards. So... I sold the Juice Box within a week after I installed it!!!

But, if anyone goes with a Juice Box and are wondering where to mount the control unit, I could only find one logical place: on the front brake reservoir. Hey, it worked. And it gave me ready access to it (and thieves too). I wasn't sure about the connection being very waterproof, so for safety's sake I put electrical tape over the plug. It kept water out.

So there you have it. An opinion on the Juice Box versus the PC3USB and how they don't play well together.

This was where I installed my control unit (with double-sided tape)...




But it certainly did NOT work very well alongside THIS...


But hey, it was cool for the week it was on my bike! Everyone used to ask about it. All I can say is it probably might work for other bikes with certain exhaust or certain riding habits, but it certainly didn't make ME do this...


ohfour919 is offline  
post #19 of 26 Old 01-14-2011, 09:34 AM
Princeps Prior
 
arctic954's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 1,816
Rep Power: 1
 
I don't understand why you'd ever want to install 2 air/fuel controllers at the same time.

You can run a zero map on the PCIII, and change you air/fuel settings on the face of the unit exactly like the juice box.

Flat out......the juice box is for either people that don't know any better or people who can't afford the PCIII.

arctic954 is offline  
post #20 of 26 Old 01-14-2011, 10:38 AM
Shawn
 
ohfour919's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 174
Rep Power: 1
 
Well, because I thought there would be a bit of improvement. Plus, I could afford to add stuff I didn't need. We need to keep in mind that the Power Commander controls the bike's computer, where the Juice Box hooks directly to the injectors.

Not only that, but before I ordered the Juice Box, I called Two Brothers and was told it would work fine alongside the PC3USB. Apparently they said that to make the sale, because they were dead wrong.

I was only posting my opinion above for anyone wondering about the Juice Box. Like I mentioned, I disconnected the PC3 and still didn't notice anything out of the Juice Box, so I removed it and sold it a week later.


ohfour919 is offline  
post #21 of 26 Old 01-14-2011, 10:55 AM
Princeps Prior
 
arctic954's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 1,816
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohfour919 View Post
Well, because I thought there would be a bit of improvement. Plus, I could afford to add stuff I didn't need. We need to keep in mind that the Power Commander controls the bike's computer, where the Juice Box hooks directly to the injectors.
I'm not trying to start a debate....just want to keep the information correct for people digging in the archives.

The PCIII-USB does not control the bike's computer! It takes the signals output from the bikes computer and add's or subtracts to it. It IS NOT replaceing the Air/Fuel map already built into your bikes computer in any way. By running a zero map in the PCIII, you are basically not changing what the ECU is putting out and running the stock map. Both units change the signal going to the injectors, they just connect in different places.

arctic954 is offline  
post #22 of 26 Old 01-14-2011, 12:30 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,652
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic954 View Post

Flat out......the juice box is for either people that don't know any better or people who can't afford the PCIII.
Echo Echo

mcromo44 is offline  
post #23 of 26 Old 01-14-2011, 12:32 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,652
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic954 View Post
I'm not trying to start a debate....just want to keep the information correct for people digging in the archives.

The PCIII-USB does not control the bike's computer! It takes the signals output from the bikes computer and add's or subtracts to it. It IS NOT replaceing the Air/Fuel map already built into your bikes computer in any way. By running a zero map in the PCIII, you are basically not changing what the ECU is putting out and running the stock map.
The PCIII is a true piggyback device like arctic954 describes. He is absolutely correct in what he says above.

mcromo44 is offline  
post #24 of 26 Old 01-14-2011, 12:45 PM
Community Moderator
 
g00gl3it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,614
Rep Power: 1
  

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohfour919 View Post
We need to keep in mind that the Power Commander controls the bike's computer, where the Juice Box hooks directly to the injectors.
uh, sorry, but false. The PCIII controls the air/fuel mixture, NOT the ECU. In regards to where it hooks up, it just does it in a different (and more efficient) location than the Juicebox, as has been mentioned above.

I'm surprised you didn't royally screw up your bike doing that. That's like putting two spark plug wires on the same spark plug. Or putting both doses of compressed air in the rear tire and none in the front. It just makes no sense at all. Now, you CAN have a PCIII installed, yet running a zero map (no change to A/F mixture) and still have a Juicebox. But you should only have one of them changing the A/F ratios at any given time, not both. And, as mentioned above, the JuiceBox only ADDS fuel. The 919 does not need that at all. If you run a PCIII to lean out the bike, then add a JuiceBox, you've just cancelled the effect of the PCIII.

Sorry, but you really should have been more familiar with the workings of the bike (engines in general) before you start adding stuff just because you have the money.

On that note, I wish I were like you and had the money to spend! That would be nice....There are lots of things I would like to do, but can't. Yet.

2009 Aprilia Tuono - Ginger
2001 XR650R BRP (Big Red Pig)
2006 Honda 599 - Ex wrecked it :-D
2007 Honda CB900F (sold)
2006 Honda VTX 1300C (sold)
YouTube Channel
g00gl3it is offline  
post #25 of 26 Old 01-14-2011, 01:26 PM
McTavish
 
mcromo44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,652
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
uh, sorry, but false. The PCIII controls the air/fuel mixture, NOT the ECU. In regards to where it hooks up, it just does it in a different (and more efficient) location than the Juicebox, as has been mentioned above.

I'm surprised you didn't royally screw up your bike doing that. That's like putting two spark plug wires on the same spark plug. Or putting both doses of compressed air in the rear tire and none in the front. It just makes no sense at all. Now, you CAN have a PCIII installed, yet running a zero map (no change to A/F mixture) and still have a Juicebox. But you should only have one of them changing the A/F ratios at any given time, not both. And, as mentioned above, the JuiceBox only ADDS fuel. The 919 does not need that at all. If you run a PCIII to lean out the bike, then add a JuiceBox, you've just cancelled the effect of the PCIII.

Sorry, but you really should have been more familiar with the workings of the bike (engines in general) before you start adding stuff just because you have the money.

On that note, I wish I were like you and had the money to spend! That would be nice....There are lots of things I would like to do, but can't. Yet.
The PCIII adjusts the pulse width signal instruction from the ECU.
That's what it does.
It's instructions are stored in the PCIII's memory.
The adjustments are continuous while the bike is in operation.
The base map is held by the ECU.
The "map correction" is held by the PCIII.

mcromo44 is offline  
post #26 of 26 Old 01-14-2011, 01:50 PM
Community Moderator
 
g00gl3it's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,614
Rep Power: 1
  

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
The PCIII adjusts the pulse width signal instruction from the ECU.
That's what it does.
It's instructions are stored in the PCIII's memory.
The adjustments are continuous while the bike is in operation.
The base map is held by the ECU.
The "map correction" is held by the PCIII.
+1

2009 Aprilia Tuono - Ginger
2001 XR650R BRP (Big Red Pig)
2006 Honda 599 - Ex wrecked it :-D
2007 Honda CB900F (sold)
2006 Honda VTX 1300C (sold)
YouTube Channel
g00gl3it is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wrist Twisters forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome