Turn signal LED question - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 77 Old 01-05-2007, 09:07 AM Thread Starter
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Turn signal LED question

I just purchased a set of LED turn signals. What I didn't realize was that they would be two wire and the stock signals are three wire. I want them to work as running lights and turn signals so I need some kind of converter module. I know Watsen design makes one, but they are in Canada. Can I just walk into my local Cyclegear and find something?

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post #2 of 77 Old 01-05-2007, 12:18 PM
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No clue if Cycle Gear carries this item. Just order it from Watsen. Turn around time is better than some domestic suppilers.

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post #3 of 77 Old 01-06-2007, 03:22 AM
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If you are talking about the front signal/running lights, you can solder a diode in the turn signal circuit and attach both signal and running light wires to same wire on the led light. The diode will keep the flasher circuit isolated and allow the lights to flash when the turn signal is switched on. That's what I did. Total cost was about $3.00.

If your not about 'the tinkering', go ahead and order the part.

J.

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post #4 of 77 Old 01-06-2007, 03:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffspeak View Post
If you are talking about the front signal/running lights, you can solder a diode in the turn signal circuit and attach both signal and running light wires to same wire on the led light. The diode will keep the flasher circuit isolated and allow the lights to flash when the turn signal is switched on. That's what I did. Total cost was about $3.00.

If your not about 'the tinkering', go ahead and order the part.

J.
Excellent tip jeff... Do you have a wiring diagram with the diode part number? I would like to add this tip to our 919 how-to's.

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post #5 of 77 Old 01-06-2007, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys and I'm all about the tinkering. I was thinking that the Watsen design thingy was nothing more than a diode since it was so small but I wasn't sure. If I can go to Radio Shack and pick up a diode that would be great, just need a little something to show me what and how.

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post #6 of 77 Old 01-08-2007, 12:05 AM
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It's pretty easy -- see the simplified diagram below. Only one front side is shown for clarity. The 1N4001 diodes are available at any electronics store. When at the store, also purchase a length of heat shrink tubing to cover the diode and soldered connections.

If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
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post #7 of 77 Old 01-08-2007, 01:29 AM
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Much better picture than you could get from me.

Thanks OLd, Bold.

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post #8 of 77 Old 01-08-2007, 10:27 AM
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A quick tutorial on the proper method of making connections in the middle of a wire. Read through completely before starting.
First, make sure you have all the tools and parts before you start. Then, decide where you want the connection to be, taking into account anything that may be in the way, allowing enough wire length, and sufficient room for the connection.
1 -- The most common mistake: Laying the wires against each other, soldering them together, and wrapping them with tape.



This creates stress points that will fail and cause the circuit to quit.
2 -- Proper method: Wrap the leads of the diode around a toothpick to create a loop just large enough for the wire(s) to pass through, and cut off excess wire past the loop.



3 -- Run the wire(s) through the loop, gently squeeze the loop closed to hold the wires in place without cutting into them, and twist them around as shown. Clip off any excess wire.



At this point, the connections should be sufficient to test the circuit for proper function. Make sure none of the exposed connections are touching anything, turn on the key and activate the circuit -- if it works, proceed. If not, the diode may be in backwards, or a connection is loose. Correct any problems, retest, and proceed with soldering.
3 -- Making sure the wires are coming out from the loop straight, solder them, making sure that only enough heat is applied to solder, and only enough solder is added to make the connection -- you should be able to see the outlines of the wires through the solder. If you are not sure, practice on scrap wire until confident.



4 -- Bend the leads of the diode back against the body, being careful not to stress the leads or short them together.



5 -- Retest the circuit, slide the heatshrink over the connection, making sure that it ia completely covered, and heat the tubing with a heat gun of some sort. Unless there is no alternative, do not use a match or other open flame for the heat source -- it can cause a fire or burn the tubing.
---- Some notes about the heatshrink tubing: remember to slip the tubing onto the wires before making connections! (don't ask how I know this.) Also, it is available now with a sealant on the inside which melts and seals the connection when heated. Use this whenever possible.
This may sound obsessive, but better 10 minutes of obsessive than 3 hours of cursing over a failed connection 2 months from now.
Good luck:
Rob

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post #9 of 77 Old 01-08-2007, 11:56 AM
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Thanks for the tip Rob. I've done the same thing forgetting to put the tube on first as well.

I'll try that loop method next time I do some soldering.

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post #10 of 77 Old 01-08-2007, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
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That is awesome, just what I needed. Thanks guys! I'll hook it up sometime this week and post a pic to see what you think.

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post #11 of 77 Old 01-08-2007, 07:09 PM
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I must give kudos to rob. This is the type of thread that makes a community like ours so well rounded. Thanks.

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post #12 of 77 Old 01-08-2007, 07:09 PM
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Nice write up on the diode and the soldering intstructions, I could have used those instructions a few yrs ago, I also learned the hard way to solder, and yes I have forgotten the shrink wrap tubing too...

Edit: I agree, one of the best posts in quite a while!

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post #13 of 77 Old 01-08-2007, 07:31 PM
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nice job, Rob

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post #14 of 77 Old 01-08-2007, 08:50 PM
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Thanks, all. Glad to help.
Rob

If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
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post #15 of 77 Old 01-08-2007, 09:06 PM
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"Yamaha TZ 250 G in TC-Jag backbone chassis"
Rob - you have a pic of this?

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post #16 of 77 Old 01-09-2007, 03:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC51_CBRXX View Post
I must give kudos to rob. This is the type of thread that makes a community like ours so well rounded. Thanks.
+1

Thank you Rob and all that contributed here. Very helpful thread.

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post #17 of 77 Old 01-09-2007, 03:53 AM
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I don't have LEDs but I still enjoyed the write-up. Good job rob, you're not a slob, so says the mob.

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post #18 of 77 Old 01-09-2007, 07:26 AM
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Nice writeup rob. I added this thead to our 919 Helpful Topics

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post #19 of 77 Old 01-09-2007, 09:13 AM
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Tz 250 back at ya

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpzTurbo View Post
"Yamaha TZ 250 G in TC-Jag backbone chassis"
Rob - you have a pic of this?
At the moment, the engine is torn down for its umpteenth rebuild, and the bodywork is being replaced, so no pictures. Sorry. I'll see if I can dig it out for a shot later on.Rob

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post #20 of 77 Old 01-10-2007, 08:48 AM
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I got a surprise this morning -- I took off the seat to see if the flasher unit could be removed without taking off the tailpiece, and my flasher is a two wire unit! Just the white / green and gray wires. There isn't even a ground (green) wire in the connector. As my bike is early production (Last 6 of the VIN below 1000) there may have been a production change I don't know about. Anybody else have a 2 wire?
Rob

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post #21 of 77 Old 01-10-2007, 01:48 PM
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Aren't they all 2 wire?

I know it is on my 03 since I've swapped it to do the tailer harness integrated flashers mod and to un-do that and put an LED rear tail in. I just crimped in some female connectors so my flasher relay is swappable now.

btw, awesome thread about the 2 wire LED conversion to running / flashing. Definitely top of the list for spring.

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post #22 of 77 Old 01-10-2007, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
I got a surprise this morning -- I took off the seat to see if the flasher unit could be removed without taking off the tailpiece, and my flasher is a two wire unit! Just the white / green and gray wires. There isn't even a ground (green) wire in the connector. As my bike is early production (Last 6 of the VIN below 1000) there may have been a production change I don't know about. Anybody else have a 2 wire?
Rob
Rob - All 919 flashers are 2 wire!

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post #23 of 77 Old 01-10-2007, 06:15 PM
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It figures, another mistake in the service manual. Haven't had to look at it until now. Thanks, all.
Rob

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post #24 of 77 Old 05-13-2007, 09:18 PM
 
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The diagram link is broken.

Any chance on reposting it?

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post #25 of 77 Old 05-13-2007, 10:49 PM
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Reposting

Oops
Here you go:


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post #26 of 77 Old 04-26-2008, 09:18 PM
 
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Would I use the same diode (1N4001) to connect aftermarket two-wire indicators regardless of whether or not they are LED?

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post #27 of 77 Old 04-27-2008, 04:10 PM
 
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bump

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post #28 of 77 Old 04-27-2008, 04:18 PM
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Non LED lights will more than likely run too hot, but yes you can use this same diode.

I did it with some lights last year and it worked great, but they ended up getting pretty hot and did a partial melt-down.

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post #29 of 77 Old 04-27-2008, 04:42 PM
 
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Other than an error on my part, is there any reason why this wouldn't work with the rear signals integrated into the tailight?

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post #30 of 77 Old 04-27-2008, 05:26 PM
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Just wandering...

If the leds have a defent ground and you ground it thru the turn signal wouldn't it work as a running light(grounding thru the turn signal)and as the turn signal becomes live (loosing the ground) and flashing?

I ask this because the Box trailors I work on do this when they Get to me wired wrong.(I get to fix them).

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post #31 of 77 Old 06-22-2008, 06:31 AM
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A three wire turn signal would, but the two wire would not. You only have an input from either the running light OR the turn signal. On your box trailers, you have a two filament bulb which shares the ground for each light, thus when it's wired wrong, the running light uses the turn signal for ground, and vice versa. Unless I mis-understood your question anyway.

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post #32 of 77 Old 06-22-2008, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvetree View Post
Just wandering...

If the leds have a defent ground and you ground it thru the turn signal wouldn't it work as a running light(grounding thru the turn signal)and as the turn signal becomes live (loosing the ground) and flashing?

I ask this because the Box trailors I work on do this when they Get to me wired wrong.(I get to fix them).


You can make a two wire signal into a running light/blinker by soldering in a diode, which can be had from Radio Shack for less than a buck or so.

Diagram makes it look somewhat complicated, but it isn't. Would not recommend doing it to anything but a LED style signal though as I incurred a melt-down on some cheapo traditional bulb two wire signal.

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post #33 of 77 Old 07-06-2008, 01:39 PM
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Just for my clarification since I'm about to try this and have my diode ready to go and I'm not too good at reading wiring diagrams. The orange/white connects to the one end of the diode and the solid orange connects to the other end right? Then the solid orange line attaches to the positive of the after market signal and the green connects to the negative. Repeat on other side using the lt blue. Correct????

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post #34 of 77 Old 07-06-2008, 01:57 PM
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OR is it the orange/white combines with the solid orange on one end of the diode and only the solid orange is on the other side that goes to the after market positive?

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post #35 of 77 Old 07-06-2008, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishfilet300 View Post
OR is it the orange/white combines with the solid orange on one end of the diode and only the solid orange is on the other side that goes to the after market positive?
Now you got it. I would check with the supplier to make sure the high intensity LED and its power supply are rated for continuous operation -- they may not be.

Rob

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post #36 of 77 Old 07-06-2008, 02:56 PM
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Thanks Rob, I feel much better now. Noted on the bulb life: But isn't it practically impossible to burn out an LED as long as you regulate the voltage?
Regardless; finding locations for 2 /4 of these little volt reg boxes is a pain in the butt!

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post #37 of 77 Old 11-08-2008, 03:19 PM
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i bought some LED turn signals (2 wire) for the front and if I connect the wires for turn signal and running light together they operate as running lights and turn signals. Is there a reason for the resistor? I asked the company where i bought the LEDs from if they could be used as running lights and signals and they did not know they only could tell me they are sold as turn signals. I used them like this for about 2 weeks and did not notice any problems with them (all LEDs still working, not over heating or getting hot). Does anyone know if this could cause any electrical problems besides possibably reducing the life of the signals and should i use a resistor if i leave them as they are wired now? (Is the resistor necessary?)

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post #38 of 77 Old 11-08-2008, 06:24 PM
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The resistor is just to slow down the speed of the blinkers.

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post #39 of 77 Old 11-08-2008, 07:28 PM
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i have replaced the relay and they (LED signals) flash at normal flash rate so I am thinking the only thing that could or would happen is the LEDs might not last as long if i reconnect the running light wires. So it seems I might as well reconnect the running light wires since they are cheap LED signals and not much is lost if they do not last as long.

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post #40 of 77 Old 11-08-2008, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowytgr1 View Post
i have replaced the relay and they (LED signals) flash at normal flash rate ...
Did you replace the rear signals with LED's as well? When I installed the CA tail integrator it was a couple weeks before I replaced my front signals and I had a normal flash rate. After I replaced the fronts and went all LED, I now have an epileptic seizure causing flash rate. (not really what you were asking about, but just something I thought you might wanna know)

2003 Honda 919 - flapper mod, Clear Alternatives Smoke Tailight w/ integral turn signals, Stebel Nautilus air horn, DIY fender eliminator, LED license plate bolts, LED front turn signals, no resistor or new flasher so I blink like crazy.
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