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post #1 of 22 Old 09-21-2009, 06:02 PM Thread Starter
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true or not

flapper was staying open all the time with neutral unpluged...might half close for a split second after a bunch of revs..honda looked at it twice could not fix said they will call honda may need new ecu..they did change a few parts....honda said it runs on barometric pressure and will close in higher altitude ...they asked how the bike was running first : wanted to know if its a drivabilty issue 2guns:

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post #2 of 22 Old 09-21-2009, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secondchance View Post
flapper was staying open all the time
Mine stays open all the time...with no driveability issues...but, I fixed it that way on purpose. Never had it more than 5000 ft above sea level though, so I can't say whether it would cause any problems at higher elevations.

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post #3 of 22 Old 09-21-2009, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secondchance View Post
flapper was staying open all the time with neutral unpluged...might half close for a split second after a bunch of revs..honda looked at it twice could not fix said they will call honda may need new ecu..they did change a few parts....honda said it runs on barometric pressure and will close in higher altitude ...they asked how the bike was running first : wanted to know if its a drivabilty issue 2guns:
Do you believe there are, or know there are, any drivability issues related to it? And, what about just removing it?

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post #4 of 22 Old 09-21-2009, 09:23 PM Thread Starter
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no drivable issues at all bike always felt great..reading post here it seems they say its stays closed until 5000 rpm..so i figured mine wasnt working..only reason i wanted it fixed was because its new and under warranty ,, to see if there was any difference....mechanic at honda thought it was the ecu..im thinking honda just saying that so they dont have to spring for a new ecu..or there right and all the posts about it being closed are wrong...i have no idea...

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post #5 of 22 Old 09-21-2009, 09:42 PM
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Wow.
You really are a glutten for punishment.
Evidently the service guys at your dealership don't know how to read a factory service manual.

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post #6 of 22 Old 09-21-2009, 09:54 PM
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you're talking about the flapper on the intake of the 919???

The Ecu has zero to do with the flapper, its vacuum operated, when the engine loses vacuum at WOT and high rpm it'll open up, or you can just unplug the vacuum and it'll be open all the time.

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post #7 of 22 Old 09-21-2009, 09:57 PM
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Somebody please humor me and answer whether or not most people just remove these silly things???

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post #8 of 22 Old 09-21-2009, 10:01 PM
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I have my vacuum disconnected to leave it fully open... I remember when I first got the bike the throttle was really twitchy, it isn't any more, not sure if its the mod or just getting used to the bike and smoother.

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post #9 of 22 Old 09-21-2009, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeef View Post
you're talking about the flapper on the intake of the 919???

The Ecu has zero to do with the flapper, its vacuum operated, when the engine loses vacuum at WOT and high rpm it'll open up, or you can just unplug the vacuum and it'll be open all the time.
well thats what i thought from the posts here...thats my story of the dealership..

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post #10 of 22 Old 09-21-2009, 10:04 PM
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just for fun ask them to explain how the ecu is controlling the the vacuum to the diaphragm there, that should be interesting.

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post #11 of 22 Old 09-21-2009, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeef View Post
just for fun ask them to explain how the ecu is controlling the the vacuum to the diaphragm there, that should be interesting.
As Jeef hints, it's a relatively "dumb" system, not controlled by the ECU.

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post #12 of 22 Old 09-21-2009, 10:55 PM
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I would not let this dealer touch my bike if I were you, they are either unqualified , dishonest or both. not the type of people you would trust with your safety.
as been said before the intake flapper is vacuum operated and does not affect the performance that much. I believe it is there to reduce air intake noise at high rpm.

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post #13 of 22 Old 09-22-2009, 03:07 AM
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The ECU on my 929 does operate the flapper and HTEV via servo motor. Your dealer has his 9X9s mixed up.

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post #14 of 22 Old 09-22-2009, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeef View Post
you're talking about the flapper on the intake of the 919???

The Ecu has zero to do with the flapper, its vacuum operated, when the engine loses vacuum at WOT and high rpm it'll open up, or you can just unplug the vacuum and it'll be open all the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackheart View Post
As Jeef hints, it's a relatively "dumb" system, not controlled by the ECU.
Actually guys, the ECU does control the opening of the "variable air intake control system" a.k.a. "flapper".... sort of.

You guys are right in that the flapper is vacume opperated, but the vacume is controlled by the "intake air duct controll solenoid valve" which is in turn controlled by the ECU.

The factory service manual says: "By disconnecting the neutral switch and running the RPM's up to 5200 and above, you should see the flapper open" (not exact wording, but but general gist of what shoud be happening). Well, here the deal. With the bike on the stand and just twisting the throttle, you're hardly creating enough vacume to opperate the flapper because there's no real load on the engine. If you crack the throttle wide-open from idle, you will see it move, but not like you think it would. Now if you put the engine under a load, where optimum vacume is created, then you can see it work just fine. I did this to see for myself how it all works back in '06 on the street in front of my industrial complex on a sunday afternoon when it was a ghost town. (DISCLAIMER: I don't recommend you do this as it could cause DEATH!!!) You could also use a dyno to verify this opperation safely.

So there you go.

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post #15 of 22 Old 09-22-2009, 11:25 AM
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ah mahalo, thanks for the correction, guess I never followed the tubing up far enough.

did some searching and found some decent article talking about the same system on the rc51 ROGUE RC51 Flapper Valve Mod Page

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post #16 of 22 Old 09-22-2009, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secondchance View Post
flapper was staying open all the time with neutral unpluged...might half close for a split second after a bunch of revs..honda looked at it twice could not fix said they will call honda may need new ecu..they did change a few parts....honda said it runs on barometric pressure and will close in higher altitude ...they asked how the bike was running first : wanted to know if its a drivabilty issue 2guns:
ECU? I did the flapper mod. There is nothing attached to that thing except a vacuum line.

Barometric Pressure? Really???? Nope!

Close in higher Altitude? If it restricted air coming into the airbox at higher altitudes, wouldn't that just make is slobber fuel from running so rich? The air is already thin up there....let's choke it down some more.

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post #17 of 22 Old 09-22-2009, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmurphy84 View Post
ECU? I did the flapper mod. There is nothing attached to that thing except a vacuum line.

Barometric Pressure? Really???? Nope!

Close in higher Altitude? If it restricted air coming into the airbox at higher altitudes, wouldn't that just make is slobber fuel from running so rich? The air is already thin up there....let's choke it down some more.
It's what the other end of the vacume line is attatched to Chris, thats controlled by the ECU.

That stuff in the post about "Barometric pressure" and "altitude" was pretty funny.

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post #18 of 22 Old 09-22-2009, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbeenracer View Post
Actually guys, the ECU does control the opening of the "variable air intake control system" a.k.a. "flapper".... sort of.

So there you go.
Thanks for the detailed response!

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post #19 of 22 Old 09-22-2009, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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barometric pressure was some funny shit from the honda talking heads ..there just looking not to pay for a ecu....but in the end they will ,,, there working on calling honda again...all you guys been a big help...the one wire from the ecu shuts the ..solenoid and that was changed the second time i brought it back...so the guys at the shop where telling me the truth...its honda trying to see if they can save a buck..

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post #20 of 22 Old 09-22-2009, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
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Barmatt80...was the member who poster the manual page in another thread..i was almost going to let it slide because it runs great with it opened....after reading the manual page i got fired up again..just wanted to made 100 percent sure i knew what i was talking about....right jeff...just joking

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post #21 of 22 Old 09-22-2009, 04:18 PM
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Just out of curiosity, has anybody on this site ever have an ECU go bad on them, because I'm thinking it's pretty darn rare.

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post #22 of 22 Old 09-22-2009, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbeenracer View Post
Just out of curiosity, has anybody on this site ever have an ECU go bad on them, because I'm thinking it's pretty darn rare.
there was that one guy off the other site that when they were installing his fender eliminator drilled a hole in his ecu....

thats the only one i have heard of....



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