To track, or not to track? - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 02:19 AM Thread Starter
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To track, or not to track?

I'm thinking about taking my 919 to the track. I remember reading on WT that performance upgrades on the 919 aren'tusually worth it because the frame flexes, and it's not generally a track bike. So my first question is this, Is a stock 919 safe for the track? Will my brakes fade? Will the frame flex so much as to bin me? Will stock suspension get me into trouble? I KNOW the 919 is a fast bike. But it's also heavy. Can I safely navigate the track on a stock 919?

Second question: I have touring tires on it. Do I need to get race tires before I track it? Will the touring tires not allow me to enjoy the track? Are race tires 'too much' for the 919?

Third question: I've read that there's no real point to upgrades on a 919. I've read that money is better spent just buying a better bike.

- Mike

Anyways, I love my bike. Just wanna go really fast, safely. Do I really need to buy a SV650 just to have fun at the track?

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post #2 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 03:14 AM
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pretty much everything you asked is rider depended, will you be able to ride around a track safely is all up to you, the bike will do it.

Of course I'm not saying the bike is great for the track, there are better bikes but the 919 does a good job for what it is. As far as tires go you can use street tires if you want, will they grip as well as race tires? no but they'll work and unless your really pushing it you shouldn't have a problem.

There isn't really a point in doing performance upgrades on the 919, you won't get back what your looking for. However, Braking and suspension upgrades on the 919 do wonders for the bike as they are weak points on the bike

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post #3 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 03:23 AM
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1st question: go have fun with it. You'll be fine for a little while on stock 919. You will first one to know what needs an improvement once you push it.

2nd: get Pilot powers 2ct, you'll love them both on the road and track

3rd: there is nothing wrong with the upgrades. Look at it this way: the bike came from the factory that was designed to work for everyone : big, small, short, tall, the guy in the village and the guy in the city etc.
Go ahead, make the bike they way it works for you.

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post #4 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 03:43 AM
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Upgrades, mods etc for a track day.

Meh - get out there and just give it heaps mate! You'll be packing it the first few times on the track and find the bike way capable.

And as above - modify as you see fit. I'd highly recommend changing the bars - Renthal Ultra-Lows, they will move you down and forward a bit for a sportier stance. And pipe it too - sure you won't gain much - a bit of mid-range, but the extra noise will certainly help you hear what the engine is doing and plaster a big grin on your face. Plus the weight saving up high makes it easier to flick side to side.

Main thing - have fun.

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post #5 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 04:57 AM
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Granted I don't have a 919 (I have an SV650), but I'm going to sign up for my first track day next year (missed all the dates this year) and everyone that I've talked to have said the sooner to get to the track, the better the rider you will be. regardless of the bike.

If you have enough money then heck, get an SV, they are incredibly fun bikes. If not just rock the 919 and have fun.

I have heard that SS brake lines are a really good upgrade if you are going to the track. I plan on doing that this winter.

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post #6 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 05:03 AM
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919s do not get chassis flex, and least not with street tires and less than pro level racers on them. Nor does the front end or swing arm flex. When I say no flex, I mean the easy to feel and scary stuff. At most, the vast majority of track day riders will feel the tires and the suspension componentry. If you have stock suspension, it will feel like it. If you have upgraded suspension, it will feel like it and you should be able to go faster, or go the same speed with greater comfort. I've done my suspension front and back. Others ride on factory stock suspension, have fun, and some of them can really cook. To me the $ was worth it, I wanted the bike set up nicely for very long term ownership.

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post #7 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 05:09 AM
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I forgot to add in. I did about 750 track day miles on the 919 last year. I had a riot. This year has been a conspiracy against my doing track days. I'll end this year at about 350 miles. The 919 is an extremely stable and forgiving platform. It is very easy to ride and ride quickly. You have to muscle it, that is true, as it is no 600 supersport. If you want 600 supersport ride handling and chassis feel, there is only ONE way to get it, and that is to buy one. You can spend the max possible amount on a 919 re suspension, and it will never feel or behave like a supersport. But it can be made to handle much better than stock, if you want or need that better handling. My theory is I want the maximum "chassis gap" between what the bike can do and what the I can do with it. For me, the chassis upgrades have allowed me to go quicker as well.

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post #8 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 05:46 AM
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I brought my almost stock 919 to the track a couple of times this summer and much like everyone else I had a riot! The best upgrade to feel better on the track would be to get the SS brake lines. It's a big fast bike and the SS brake lines really help your confidence at the end of a long straightaway.

I personally decided to trade in the 919 towards a supersport for the track for several reasons. First I want to separate my track riding from the road, once you know what the 919 can do on the track its really tempting to do it on the road and I'd never want to pay the price for a mistake on the road. The costs & convenience to turn a stock 919 into a track oriented bike it'll cost ya and from what I can tell from McRomo's posts you have to do a lot of thinking about suspension to overcome some of the 919's shortcomings (Kudos to Mcromo for the hard work but I'm a weekend warrior that wanted a bike whose design was intended for the track instead of the road).

IMO if you want to take the 919 to the track as it is you'll have a great time and chances are you won't be in danger because of the bike (did I mention SS Brake lines...). If you catch the speed bug you might start to look at the buzzy little 600's in a new light

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post #9 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 06:56 AM
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Chiming in on this one as well. I take my 919 to the track (stock suspension, ultra lows, rearsets SS lines, pirelli corsa III's) and have a blast. Would I like better suspension and a bunch of weight shaved off? Yep. Can I still have fun at the track without 'em? Yep.

Mostly it's the idea of crashing my everyday ride that holds me back from pushing harder and improving. That's the best argument for me to look into getting a beater for the track.

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post #10 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honda ng gingsa View Post
Chiming in on this one as well. I take my 919 to the track (stock suspension, ultra lows, rearsets SS lines, pirelli corsa III's) and have a blast. Would I like better suspension and a bunch of weight shaved off? Yep. Can I still have fun at the track without 'em? Yep.

Mostly it's the idea of crashing my everyday ride that holds me back from pushing harder and improving. That's the best argument for me to look into getting a beater for the track.
I'm really leery of binning the 919, which keeps me in check.
I find I push harder on the dedicated 750 track day bike because it's not my pride and joy that my wife enjoys two up road rides on. Not only that, the "sharpness" of the GSXR kinda begs for pushing things a bit more.

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post #11 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 07:40 AM
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The 919 brakes are not all that bad. If the track you are at has you hauling down hard from top end, then some improvements can help.
Brake Pads : I find the EBC HHs work very well, much better initial bite, more brake power all around
Front Springing : Note I said "springing" and not just "springs". The stock front end is a "diver extraordinaire". You can not "spring" your way out of it unless you want to turn it into a rock. 0.925 to 0.95 kg/mm is going to cover a broad swath of "rider x track combinations". You need to use oil level to help stiffen up towards the end of the travel, in other words increasing the air springing effect. Just go to 125 mm and be done with it. Braking technique effects the initial dive as well. Instant fistfulls of right hand lever will get you down to the hydraulic snubber real easy, and then you are only a few mm away from hard mechanical bottom out. When you add oil or change springs, make a point of bottoming out your forks. Put some tape on the fork tube so that the tape is sitting at the top of the fork seal. Put a zip tie on the fork tube. Now you know exactly how much travel you are using and how little is left.

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post #12 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 08:52 AM
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I have taken the 919 to track several times and it is very capable , it does come short in some aspects but it is a lot of fun. if you are going to the track frequently or you want be more competitive I'd say save the mod money and get a track bike. I have a CBR 600rr that I use for track days now, there is a big difference in the two bikes and I don't think any amount of modification could bring the 919 in par with a sport bike.

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post #13 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 09:01 AM
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Track it!
Lots of fun.

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post #14 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mantelhonda View Post
I have taken the 919 to track several times and it is very capable , it does come short in some aspects but it is a lot of fun. if you are going to the track frequently or you want be more competitive I'd say save the mod money and get a track bike. I have a CBR 600rr that I use for track days now, there is a big difference in the two bikes and I don't think any amount of modification could bring the 919 in par with a sport bike.
What group are you riding in ? Intermediate or Expert by chance ? Aside from long straights, Novices, especially early Novices, will likely be doing the same times whether on a 919, SV or 600 SS. LDH suggests that the easy demeanor of the 919 is such that some Novices might go faster on a 919 than on a 600 SS. I think he is on to something, but it would only be valid if the rider knows of the need and actually does the muscling to let it be hustled.

Personally, I'm what I'd describe as a slow to middlin' Intermediate. The pace of the Intermediate Group changes from event to event, as not everyone is a regular. I find at some events, I'm gaining on a portion of the 600s everywhere except the long main straight. On a shorter track with no long straight, I'd be passing them. I think the 919's "competitiveness" is function of the track and the mix of the riders one is lumped in with.

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post #15 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 09:58 AM
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+1 one on everything above......

---- SS lines....EBC HH's, and a good bleed of MOTU RBF will get you 90% there.

---- Yep.... you can run in the NOVICE class with sport-touring tires, but beeeeee careful. AT LEAST make sure you're running a correct lower PSI in the tires and getting them up to temp.

----- Here are a couple street tires that work great on the street & track...... Pilot powers OR PP 2ct's, Pirelli Diabo or Corsa III's, Dulop Qualifer or Q2, Bridgestone BT-16's or BT-002RS.....

Me personally....... on the street I run a Bridgestone BT-16 front w/ a longer lasting BT-23 rear. When I go to the track, I'll AT LEAST swap the sport-touring rear out for the sticker BT-16.

For tire pressures.... on the Street, I'll run 34 front, 36 rear....for longer life.
ON the Track, I'll bring those numbers down.... and constantly monitor my tires.... (for example.... Pirelli recommends 30 front/30 rear for most of their street/track-day tires....)

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post #16 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 11:12 AM
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I just can't believe you guys are still using those shitty EBC HH pads LOL

They were a decent pad 15 years ago when nobody else had a sintered pad, but even then & to this day if you use them hard enough to ACTUALLY NEED the sintered compound they warp the backing plates and cause parasitic drag. They have been totally eclipsed by advances in brake pad technology by just about every other brand on the market.



Take the 919 to the track & let'er rip. They do have frame flex and tons of it, but the bike is very forgiving and sure footed even if not compliant. Just be mindful of any ripples in the track under trailbraking maneuvers as those are the most likely to catch you out. All in all the 919 has the mid-range torque curve to pull you out of just about any turn on the track in front of the bigger bikes. Gear selection is a little more crucial than you think it would be with such a linear curve, but stay focused and the 919 can do some amazing things out there on the track. Oh & there is no coasting in motorcycle racing. You should be on the brakes or on the gas. Coasting on the 919 will not reward you at all...

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post #17 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic954 View Post
+1 one on everything above......

---- SS lines....EBC HH's, and a good bleed of MOTU RBF will get you 90% there.

---- Yep.... you can run in the NOVICE class with sport-touring tires, but beeeeee careful. AT LEAST make sure you're running a correct lower PSI in the tires and getting them up to temp.

----- Here are a couple street tires that work great on the street & track...... Pilot powers OR PP 2ct's, Pirelli Diabo or Corsa III's, Dulop Qualifer or Q2, Bridgestone BT-16's or BT-002RS.....

Me personally....... on the street I run a Bridgestone BT-16 front w/ a longer lasting BT-23 rear. When I go to the track, I'll AT LEAST swap the sport-touring rear out for the sticker BT-16.

For tire pressures.... on the Street, I'll run 34 front, 36 rear....for longer life.
ON the Track, I'll bring those numbers down.... and constantly monitor my tires.... (for example.... Pirelli recommends 30 front/30 rear for most of their street/track-day tires....)
I'm Michelin 2CTs front and back.
On the street I run 32 front 35 rear re solo. I do some many track miles that they don't get a chance to centre feather and square off from the lower pressures.
I bump them up when my wife is on the back 33 front and rear around 38.
For track I run 30 cold on the rear. If it is a real cold day on real cold pavement, I'll go up to 31.
The rear is not as sensitive to pressure as the front, Michelin 2CT specific comment that is.
I used to run the front at 31 cold.
Moved it up to 31.5 and 32, and found more stability under heavy trail braking, same grip, but way less squirmy feeling out of the front. Really cold days, I've been using 32 to 32.5.
Really cold is high 40s F scale, to put it in perspective.
I have not yet progressed to doing hot pressure checks and working that way instead or in addition to. Next season for that. Along with rubber temp measurements. More to find out what is going on and get a better handle on what cold settings to use any given a day's combination of air temp and pavement temp. Cold day and cold pavement with no sun makes a huge difference from the opposite. No matter what you do with pressures, grip is way down. One thing about doing your front end with Traxxion or RaceTech valving, is that you drop to a thinner oil which is not as sensitive to cold days as the stock internals oil thicker oil is. DON'T run light oils with stock internals !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You will lose much of your damping as the stock hydraulics are profiled to match the thicker oil the stocker calls for. I did an experiment on this just to find out, and I was shocked (no pun intended) by how much loss of damping there was by going down in oil weight, I mean to the point of not being safe to ride ! I used Race Tech 2.5 - 5 W as compared to the stock 10 W, for the experiment.

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post #18 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 11:34 AM
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You can't go wrong with Pilot Powers! They work in all conditions wet or dry cold or hot.

You'll also never have to worry about hot pressures with Michelin tires. Set them cold with an accurate gauge and forget about them.

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post #19 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
You can't go wrong with Pilot Powers! They work in all conditions wet or dry cold or hot.

You'll also never have to worry about hot pressures with Michelin tires. Set them cold with an accurate gauge and forget about them.
LDH,

1
I'm curious.
How sensitive to front cold settings have you found them ?
And over what track day temperature range have you had to deal with ?

2
Softer sidewall tire also, the street Michelins that is.
That should be providing a bit more compliance for what is a rather rudimentary suspension - no matter what one has done or hasn't done.

3
The tires are so predictable. I find the little drifts just nicely come back in on their own, and with no "grab". They just seem to "slip less and less" until they are back in. I've not had a huge wash yet - say 6 inches at the front and no more than a foot at the back, but that one was an almost I was lucky on.

4
Getting nearer to posting those coloured keyed printed out maps ?


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post #20 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
LDH,

1
I'm curious.
How sensitive to front cold settings have you found them ?
And over what track day temperature range have you had to deal with ?

2
Softer sidewall tire also, the street Michelins that is.
That should be providing a bit more compliance for what is a rather rudimentary suspension - no matter what one has done or hasn't done.

3
The tires are so predictable. I find the little drifts just nicely come back in on their own, and with no "grab". They just seem to "slip less and less" until they are back in. I've not had a huge wash yet - say 6 inches at the front and no more than a foot at the back, but that one was an almost I was lucky on.

4
Getting nearer to posting those coloured keyed printed out maps ?


The Michelin Pilot Power & Pilot Power 2CT's are overall not that sensitive. In fact they really aren't even that critical with the tire pressures and certainly not like the Michelin Race tires where the difference of 1 or 2 psi can mean a couple track sessions out of your tires or a couple track weekends. With the Pilot Powers the hotter the ambient temp the more critical your tire pressure becomes. They are going to get greasy at track speeds in high temps period so you do what you can to lessen that problem by running as close to an optimum cold pressure as you can.

I ran the Pilot Powers from literally freezing temps in the morning (Dasani water bottle frozen solid inside the trailer) to 70 degrees in the same day and only set the air pressure once in the morning. Granted in super cool temps you are only going to do so much out on the track anyway ya know...

On days where the temp starts in the 60's or 70's and climbs towards 100 degrees I will check the pressures again right after the lunch break. I also feel that the 2CT sidewall is a little stiffer than the original Pilot Powers and have had a little better luck running them slightly lower at about 28-29psi versus the 30psi I run the original Pilot Powers at. In the end they are still street tires albeit very good ones!

The Pilot Power front tires are one of if not the most forgiving tire ever made. You can really start to learn how to push the front & bring it back with those tires as they really slide predictably and offer a lot of warning before they let go entirely.

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post #21 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 01:08 PM
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Since we are talking track...what's the cheapest way to get on the track to see what it's all about?

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post #22 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
The Michelin Pilot Power & Pilot Power 2CT's are overall not that sensitive. In fact they really aren't even that critical with the tire pressures and certainly not like the Michelin Race tires where the difference of 1 or 2 psi can mean a couple track sessions out of your tires or a couple track weekends. With the Pilot Powers the hotter the ambient temp the more critical your tire pressure becomes. They are going to get greasy at track speeds in high temps period so you do what you can to lessen that problem by running as close to an optimum cold pressure as you can.

I ran the Pilot Powers from literally freezing temps in the morning (Dasani water bottle frozen solid inside the trailer) to 70 degrees in the same day and only set the air pressure once in the morning. Granted in super cool temps you are only going to do so much out on the track anyway ya know...

On days where the temp starts in the 60's or 70's and climbs towards 100 degrees I will check the pressures again right after the lunch break. I also feel that the 2CT sidewall is a little stiffer than the original Pilot Powers and have had a little better luck running them slightly lower at about 28-29psi versus the 30psi I run the original Pilot Powers at. In the end they are still street tires albeit very good ones!

The Pilot Power front tires are one of if not the most forgiving tire ever made. You can really start to learn how to push the front & bring it back with those tires as they really slide predictably and offer a lot of warning before they let go entirely.
I'm copying your notes into my Track Day binder.
OK, well, how about into one of the binderS. ( I stuff one of those airline pilot type detail cases, plus Twist Of The Wrist, etc etc etc )
Section : Tires
Subsection: Pressures

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post #23 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 01:13 PM
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Seriously, if you want to know about Michelin, Metzeler/Pirelli street or race rubber I have answers. I don't know dick about Bridgestone or Dunlop, but I know the other 3 like the back of my hand. After years of testing I actually ended up running a Michelin 1246A slick up front with a Pirelli slick out back which I have been using as my tire set-up for a couple years now


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post #24 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmurphy84 View Post
Since we are talking track...what's the cheapest way to get on the track to see what it's all about?

Just find a local trackday with just about any organization you can. In the East & South you have Sportbike Track Time (STT) & NESBA as two of the biggest names and there are plenty more to choose from all over the country.

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post #25 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
Seriously, if you want to know about Michelin, Metzeler/Pirelli street or race rubber I have answers. I don't know dick about Bridgestone or Dunlop, but I know the other 3 like the back of my hand. After years of testing I actually ended up running a Michelin 1246A slick up front with a Pirelli slick out back which I have been using as my tire set-up for a couple years now

Do you run slight differential pressures ?
I find the front wants a bit more than the back, that said purely on basis of front end tire stability on heavy trail braking. (well, it seems heavy to me ! it boggles my mind how much I can scrub off leaned over as compared to my 73 CB750 with Dunlop K81s ! )
I'm wondering if I'm not fast enough to be getting enough heat into the front tire, thinking the rear is seeing power or side grip 100 % of the time, while the front is not seeing brake load or side grip 100 % of the time.

Have you tried Pure's ?
I have them on my 750 track day bike and love them.
Incredible in the wet. I did a school on a rain day, best thing I ever did, I was clueless as to how much grip there would be. Made a point of doing all braking straight up though, just could not bring myself to trust trying to trail brake even a weenie bit.

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post #26 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 01:30 PM
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The Pure's are great tires, but until I exhaust the cheap supply of Pilot Powers I am not going to spend more money for a less than marginal improvement in traction. Now that I live out on the West Coast I only use Street Tires for the rare track day when it rains or on the 600F4i which doesn't see all that much use... When I lived down South every other event was pretty much a wet one so I ran hoop after hoop of Pilot Powers all season long.

I've got tire pressure on my race tires down to a science. Oddly enough the Pirelli has to be set to a hot pressure with a rim temp of at least 100 degrees while the front Michelin I use needs to be set cold. The worst ones or shall I say the most critical are the now discontinued, but still extremely capable Michelin DOT Power Race tires that we run as low as 18psi in the rear depending on conditions. Not only are they very finicky about the pressures, but there are a lot of different compounds & carcasses that you have to be aware of to get the most out of them etc...

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post #27 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
The Pure's are great tires, but until I exhaust the cheap supply of Pilot Powers I am not going to spend more money for a less than marginal improvement in traction. Now that I live out on the West Coast I only use Street Tires for the rare track day when it rains or on the 600F4i which doesn't see all that much use... When I lived down South every other event was pretty much a wet one so I ran hoop after hoop of Pilot Powers all season long.

I've got tire pressure on my race tires down to a science. Oddly enough the Pirelli has to be set to a hot pressure with a rim temp of at least 100 degrees while the front Michelin I use needs to be set cold. The worst ones or shall I say the most critical are the now discontinued, but still extremely capable Michelin DOT Power Race tires that we run as low as 18psi in the rear depending on conditions. Not only are they very finicky about the pressures, but there are a lot of different compounds & carcasses that you have to be aware of to get the most out of them etc...
OK, I realize you don't want to give away the ship so to speak as I think you are still racing or doing setups for those that do.

So, on the basis of a "street 919" being track dayed on 2CTs, would it be reasonable to see an intermediate rider needing to run the front a bit harder, or, is a problem or deficiency being masked by that slightly higher front pressure ?

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post #28 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 01:43 PM
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Oh No, for the purpose of putting a 919 on the race track with Pilot Power street tires I would set both tires to the same cold pressure & be done with it. Remember even on street tires the front tires are already a softer compound than the rear and designed to grip appropriately compared to the rear.

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post #29 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
Oh No, for the purpose of putting a 919 on the race track with Pilot Power street tires I would set both tires to the same cold pressure & be done with it. Remember even on street tires the front tires are already a softer compound than the rear and designed to grip appropriately compared to the rear.
Got it and thanks !

McTavish McRomo in Calgary, Alberta, Canada

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post #30 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
I just can't believe you guys are still using those shitty EBC HH pads LOL

....
OK - since you brought it up, and because I know nothing about 'em, what pads do you recommend for a daily driver that gets track time every once in a while?

I forget what pads I'm using now... HH-rated, yes, though I forget the brand (could be EBC).

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post #31 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by TexasTraffic View Post
OK - since you brought it up, and because I know nothing about 'em, what pads do you recommend for a daily driver that gets track time every once in a while?

I forget what pads I'm using now... HH-rated, yes, though I forget the brand (could be EBC).

Let me preface this post by saying it is very hard to beat the OEM Honda pads for the combination of longevity, stopping power & feedback they provide in all conditions.

The only pads I really really don't like are the EBC-HH and the Ferodo SinterGrip ST's. The EBC-HH's for the warping problems I mentioned previously (they are hard on the rotors too) and the Sintergrip ST's for being extremely inconsistent in their performance IMO. All other current pads are pretty damn good it just depends on what exactly you want out of them and of course what I need form a pad may not be what you need from a pad.

Lately I have been selling the Carbone Lorraine SBK-5 Street pads that easily pull double duty as track pads and my trusted friends and customers have not said one negative word on them. I personally haven't used them so... What I have been using is the Carbone Lorraine C55 Race pads on the track and while they are a proper race pad that requires heat to make them work properly they do provide excellent initial bite and very little fade plus once they are hot they stay that way so they can pull street duty too with just a little caution applied. They are relatively cheap which kinda threw me off of them at first. I mean $100 retail (I sell them cheaper btw) for a set of front pads just seemed really cheap to me & cheap usually means you get what you pay for, but not in this case. I was also a little hesitant to turn some of our really fast Pro racers on to them as well, but damn if they don't love them too. Funny enough I recently switched out the pads that came in my new Brembo GP4-RX calipers to the C55's

Brembo GP4-RX Nickel Calipers


Again though stock Honda pads are really good and work in all conditions including rain.

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post #32 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
Let me preface this post by saying it is very hard to beat the OEM Honda pads for the combination of longevity, stopping power & feedback they provide in all conditions.

The only pads I really really don't like are the EBC-HH and the Ferodo SinterGrip ST's. The EBC-HH's for the warping problems I mentioned previously (they are hard on the rotors too) and the Sintergrip ST's for being extremely inconsistent in their performance IMO. All other current pads are pretty damn good it just depends on what exactly you want out of them and of course what I need form a pad may not be what you need from a pad.

Lately I have been selling the Carbone Lorraine SBK-5 Street pads that easily pull double duty as track pads and my trusted friends and customers have not said one negative word on them. I personally haven't used them so... What I have been using is the Carbone Lorraine C55 Race pads on the track and while they are a proper race pad that requires heat to make them work properly they do provide excellent initial bite and very little fade plus once they are hot they stay that way so they can pull street duty too with just a little caution applied. They are relatively cheap which kinda threw me off of them at first. I mean $100 retail (I sell them cheaper btw) for a set of front pads just seemed really cheap to me & cheap usually means you get what you pay for, but not in this case. I was also a little hesitant to turn some of our really fast Pro racers on to them as well, but damn if they don't love them too. Funny enough I recently switched out the pads that came in my new Brembo GP4-RX calipers to the C55's

Brembo GP4-RX Nickel Calipers


Again though stock Honda pads are really good and work in all conditions including rain.
LDH, I know you don't like the EBC HHs from experience, but mine have been excellent. They are not getting raced on though. I'm running them on EBC wavies that have seen lots of use and remain arrow straight. I did not run HHs on stock rotors, so I have no experience there. I'd say I am hard on the brakes at the track, and soft on the road. However, there is only one real long hard braking zone at the track, and I'm circulating around 1min 40 sec, so they get lots of time to cool down from their peak temperature. The HHs are squeaky around town. They do bite hard, especially after an initial warming. They work fine in the cold. I don't do rain riding much, so can't say anything on that point.

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post #33 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
LDH, I know you don't like the EBC HHs from experience, but mine have been excellent. They are not getting raced on though. I'm running them on EBC wavies that have seen lots of use and remain arrow straight. I did not run HHs on stock rotors, so I have no experience there. I'd say I am hard on the brakes at the track, and soft on the road. However, there is only one real long hard braking zone at the track, and I'm circulating around 1min 40 sec, so they get lots of time to cool down from their peak temperature. The HHs are squeaky around town. They do bite hard, especially after an initial warming. They work fine in the cold. I don't do rain riding much, so can't say anything on that point.

As long as they are working for you that is all that really matters! I simply share my personal experiences and the experiences of the vast cross section of riders I instruct, work or ride with & sell parts too. Not all of them have issues either, but it's the ones that do that concern me

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post #34 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 05:17 PM
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Lol.......you might get a phone call about a new set of pads.....ha, ha.

I can say....I also have been running HH's with EBC rotors w/ no issues. I am however, not running the advanced group....

Interesting thing (pad warpage) to keep an eye on while having the bike up on the stands for the night......

Thanks for sharing all the great info.

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post #35 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 05:22 PM Thread Starter
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Hey guys I really appreciate all the feedback.


Will get the PP2CT, when my tires wear out...

Renthal ultra lows: will they be comfortable on long rides?

919 'does' have chassis flex; I feel it when crossing the 'seams' between lanes. After I get over the seam, I still feel the wobble. I'm almost certain I would feel it when hitting a bump in a turn at the track.

As far as brake lines: What brand is the best for fit, functionality, and affordability?

I will set my fork fluid level to 125mm. Thanks.

Last question: Can a 600 really beat a 919 on long straights? Really?


- Superbike Mike

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post #36 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by det5lonewolf View Post
Hey guys I really appreciate all the feedback.


Will get the PP2CT, when my tires wear out...

Renthal ultra lows: will they be comfortable on long rides?

919 'does' have chassis flex; I feel it when crossing the 'seams' between lanes. After I get over the seam, I still feel the wobble. I'm almost certain I would feel it when hitting a bump in a turn at the track.

As far as brake lines: What brand is the best for fit, functionality, and affordability?

I will set my fork fluid level to 125mm. Thanks.

Last question: Can a 600 really beat a 919 on long straights? Really?


- Superbike Mike
If all your bolts are tight, steering head, wheel and swing arm bearings are OK, you are not getting classic flex. What you are feeling is the the two wheels not being perfectly in line with the velocity line of the centre of mass of the bike. The front wheel hunts, and that is wheel displacement and not chassis flex. Our track is super bumpy, and the bike is steady without vices.

Renthal ULs are good for hours at a time. If I was to do legit touring, I'd put on a set of Renthal Highs.

I must have said it wrong. I get absolutely blasted by the 600s on the straight. The 600s have at least 15 more hp, are 75 pounds lighter, and have aerodynamics as compared to a brick wall shape. We exit out of a slow turn on to a 5/8 + mile straight. 2nd gear down on the tach. I get a better launch, still ahead at the 2/3 shift. Part way through 3rd they start passing, and in 4th I'm getting zinged real good. Many of Intermediates on 600s are spooked by their 150 or so mph and brake way too early and are way slow going into turn 1. I just keep plodding along at 135 or so, stay on it longer, and start gathering them up with later braking.

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post #37 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 06:45 PM
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LDH what honda is that pic?

YAAWZZU!!!

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post #38 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 07:15 PM
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I didn't read all the other posts but
DEFINITELY take it to the track! Everybody should do at least one trackday.

I did my first trackday on a 919 running Pilot Roads. All was fine and I had the best time of my life. You'll be too busy practicing technique and picking lines to find where the shortcomings of the 919 are on a racetrack.

Another member here DAN919 (I think) did a two day race school only to have his trackbike break down just before the mock-race at the end. So he took his 919 out there and won it, beating out all the other students on their sportbikes!
Until you actually start to get 'fast', it's not the bike - it's the rider. Life's short. Enjoy!

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post #39 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by det5lonewolf View Post

Last question: Can a 600 really beat a 919 on long straights? Really?


A 600 can beat a 919 on a short straight let alone a long one. For starters they can easily carry more cornerspeed than the 919 is capable of. If you block a good rider on a 600 or there is only one line through the turn then they will be able to get the drive on you unless you are just parking your bike in front of them, but all things being equal with an Intermediate group rider then the 600 will have a battle on its hands trying to fend off an accelerating 919. This is of course also pending on the idea that the 919 rider has the balls to put the spurs to it as quick as possible. Underpowered as it may be the 919 does not lack grunt to pull out of a turn in the proper gear!

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post #40 of 108 Old 09-24-2010, 07:40 PM
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Chassis flex isn't really exposed simply by hitting a bump or a seam in pavement. Minor upsets to the chassis under those conditions can mostly be contributed to the suspension or lack thereof.

Chassis flex comes into play when you are bending the bike into a turn or trying to accelerate out of one and the tires are straining against the grip & centrifugal force etc and the bike just will not stay composed and do what it is supposed to do. Don't misconstrue Chassis Flex is not always a bad thing they have been tuning flex into the bikes in various parts of the chassis like the headstock or the swingarm or even the fork tubes for years to absorb braking inputs or to bend the bike to help facilitate entry into a turn and a myriad of other reasons as well. The issue with the 919 is simply it has too much of it all around...

I still think it is the best streetbike EVER!

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