Suspension Upgrade by RICOR - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 37 Old 10-05-2009, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
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Suspension Upgrade by RICOR

I've been asking if people were interested in having RICOR incorporate their Intertia valving system in our bikes, and have a handful of people interested...enough that they are considering it. They had planned to evaluate my bike last week, but, they bought a new milling machine, and weren't able to get to it as they thought, because they are setting up this new machine. So, we have to wait a bit more to find out if they're going to be able to do this for us. The main CAD-Designer did take a quick look, and he thinks it's possible. But, thinking and doing are not neccessarily the same, so, we're just going to have to be patient.

Anyway, instead of trying to PM each individual, I thought I'd just make a blanket post. Also, if you're interested in this technology upgrade, maybe this thread would be a good place to post your interest.

Thanks!

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post #2 of 37 Old 10-05-2009, 05:21 PM
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I'm interested, is it anything like the fox inertia valve ?

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post #3 of 37 Old 10-05-2009, 05:44 PM
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Thanks for the update!

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post #4 of 37 Old 10-05-2009, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ideajones View Post
I'm interested, is it anything like the fox inertia valve ?
I know it's in the top-of-the-line Edelbrock shocks, and in the proprietary RICOR shocks...I don't know about Fox.

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post #5 of 37 Old 10-06-2009, 06:07 AM
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im fairly interested as well

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post #6 of 37 Old 10-09-2009, 07:25 PM Thread Starter
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RICOR update

Talked to the chief Engineer today, and although they are still working on some other projects that are taking up all their time, he was very encouraging that they could come up with an affordable solution to this rear shock problem.

I'll keep this thread updated as they go through prototypes and, hopefully, into production!

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post #7 of 37 Old 10-09-2009, 08:34 PM
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they could come up with an affordable solution to this rear shock problem.
Ok, I'll bite. What rear shock problem? I'll agree that the stock part isn't awesome by any means; however, it functioned pretty good on my bike under reasonably hard riding. Sometimes bikes/parts are blamed when they aren't being "maxed" out to begin with. This isn't meant to start an argument, but a discussion.

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post #8 of 37 Old 10-09-2009, 09:11 PM
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Ok, I'll bite. What rear shock problem? I'll agree that the stock part isn't awesome by any means; however, it functioned pretty good on my bike under reasonably hard riding. Sometimes bikes/parts are blamed when they aren't being "maxed" out to begin with. This isn't meant to start an argument, but a discussion.
I don't know about yours... but my rear shock will completely launch me off the seat over very small bumps, its way too stiff and doesn't absorb enough of the road.

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post #9 of 37 Old 10-09-2009, 09:16 PM
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I don't know about yours... but my rear shock will completely launch me off the seat over very small bumps, its way too stiff and doesn't absorb enough of the road.
How much do you weigh? I'm just over 200. Also, if you are lighter, have you tried just replacing the spring? And, no, my bike didn't launch me off the seat (my ZX10 with Penske rear set to my weight will nail me harder on a sharp bump).

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post #10 of 37 Old 10-10-2009, 07:15 AM Thread Starter
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Ok, I'll bite. What rear shock problem? I'll agree that the stock part isn't awesome by any means; however, it functioned pretty good on my bike under reasonably hard riding. Sometimes bikes/parts are blamed when they aren't being "maxed" out to begin with. This isn't meant to start an argument, but a discussion.
With gear, I'm just over 200. The problem I refer to is the lack of high-speed compression. So, changing a spring isn't going to fix the problem.

Going quickly around turns is when it bothers me the most: hit an undulation or ripple at speed, and the rear end will hop OFF of the road surface. I bet it hopped a foot or two sideways the very first time it did it to me on the first ride to scrub off the Chicken strips on a smooth road. I saw the undulation, but, it wasn't a big deal...I thought. Nearly lost it.

I can deal with the sharp jolts up my spine over rough roads, but, to have it act so bad in turns ruins it for me. If the road is perfectly smooth, there's no big problem...but, that's not "real world".

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post #11 of 37 Old 10-10-2009, 07:36 AM
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I replaced the rear shock on my 919 for comfort. I'm not chasing RRs. Best $$ you can spend on a 919. No mo sharp jolts up the spine for me.

I'll bet your RICOR guy will swap the spring when he re-does your shock. The one that's on there isn't even in the neighborhood. If you wanted to go cheap, just a lighter spring would be worth a try.

Those guys can get hi speed compression dampening out of a rebuilt Honda shock? That would be pretty cool. Is that what that inertia valve does?

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post #12 of 37 Old 10-10-2009, 08:11 AM
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any word on the forks situation?

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post #13 of 37 Old 10-10-2009, 08:35 AM
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With gear, I'm just over 200. The problem I refer to is the lack of high-speed compression. So, changing a spring isn't going to fix the problem.

Going quickly around turns is when it bothers me the most: hit an undulation or ripple at speed, and the rear end will hop OFF of the road surface. I bet it hopped a foot or two sideways the very first time it did it to me on the first ride to scrub off the Chicken strips on a smooth road. I saw the undulation, but, it wasn't a big deal...I thought. Nearly lost it.

I can deal with the sharp jolts up my spine over rough roads, but, to have it act so bad in turns ruins it for me. If the road is perfectly smooth, there's no big problem...but, that's not "real world".
So, now the question is how old are you or how many years have you ridden? I only ask this because all of my first 10-15 bikes acted this way, it was the norm. Therefore, it doesn't bother me too much. However, I fully support your desire to change the shock. I just would disagree that it is bad, and I would instead just say that it isn't like riding a Penske or Ohlins.

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post #14 of 37 Old 10-10-2009, 09:56 AM
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So, now the question is how old are you or how many years have you ridden? I only ask this because all of my first 10-15 bikes acted this way, it was the norm. Therefore, it doesn't bother me too much. However, I fully support your desire to change the shock. I just would disagree that it is bad, and I would instead just say that it isn't like riding a Penske or Ohlins.
This kind of goes along with my problem. I'm relatively new to bikes (been riding about 3 1/2 years now) so I don't have a lot of experience with bikes so what I come across a lot is reading info on here and other forums about things that are "bad" about a certain bike (specifically the Nine19) but I don't "know" that it's bad. I've owned my bike for a little over a year now and I'm starting to kind of notice the limitations of the 919, but I don't really know how to describe them.

My situation is I'm 5'-8", weigh about 280 (SHUSH!!!), and mostly only commute on my bike (unfortunately I rarely get out for good long fun rides). I ride city streets with a little highway/tollway mixed in. I would like to get my suspension set up to handle me and my riding style (casual with sudden bursts of racerboy mixed in), but I just don't know where to start.

2003 Honda 919 - flapper mod, Clear Alternatives Smoke Tailight w/ integral turn signals, Stebel Nautilus air horn, DIY fender eliminator, LED license plate bolts, LED front turn signals, no resistor or new flasher so I blink like crazy.
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post #15 of 37 Old 10-10-2009, 10:03 AM
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This kind of goes along with my problem. I'm relatively new to bikes (been riding about 3 1/2 years now) so I don't have a lot of experience with bikes so what I come across a lot is reading info on here and other forums about things that are "bad" about a certain bike (specifically the Nine19) but I don't "know" that it's bad. I've owned my bike for a little over a year now and I'm starting to kind of notice the limitations of the 919, but I don't really know how to describe them.

My situation is I'm 5'-8", weigh about 280 (SHUSH!!!), and mostly only commute on my bike (unfortunately I rarely get out for good long fun rides). I ride city streets with a little highway/tollway mixed in. I would like to get my suspension set up to handle me and my riding style (casual with sudden bursts of racerboy mixed in), but I just don't know where to start.
Talk with LDH (Mike) at Dan Kyle or the folks at LE Suspension. Either group will set you up. Most stock suspensions are set-up for the 150-180 weight range, so changing it up or down (depending upon you) can be profoundly confidence inspiring (and the best money spent).

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post #16 of 37 Old 10-10-2009, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
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So, now the question is how old are you or how many years have you ridden? I only ask this because all of my first 10-15 bikes acted this way, it was the norm. Therefore, it doesn't bother me too much. However, I fully support your desire to change the shock. I just would disagree that it is bad, and I would instead just say that it isn't like riding a Penske or Ohlins.
I'm over half a century old, riding since a teenager. This IS the norm for many bikes, but, after riding several RICOR equipped bikes, I can no longer accept it as a neccessary evil. A ragged-out SV650 with bad tires is faster in turns than my 919...with me as the pilot on both....doesn't matter what I do to the adjustments...the rear shock is in comparison to what is available.

They would NOT be re-doing the stock shock. They'd be building a brand-new shock. The front is a choice of two platforms, using the stock forks. Too bad we as 919 owners didn't get as excited as several other bikes, or, we could have been a lot closer to the front of the line of bikes they are working on now.

Oh, well, at least I'll now keep this bike, since the Chief Engineer and the CAD-guy both think they'll be able to make a very good solution.

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post #17 of 37 Old 10-10-2009, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
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I just would disagree that it is bad, and I would instead just say that it isn't like riding a Penske or Ohlins.
Oh, did you see where David Raff (I believe that was his name) rode away from everyone a couple of weeks ago? Won by 23 seconds on an SV650. They impounded his bike to find out what cheating he had to have done. The only thing done was to remove the Penske shock and replace it with a RICOR. Their technology is that much better.

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post #18 of 37 Old 10-10-2009, 04:26 PM
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Can you give me (us) a clue how much $$ we might be talking about?

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post #19 of 37 Old 10-10-2009, 05:23 PM Thread Starter
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Can you give me (us) a clue how much $$ we might be talking about?
I'll guess, judging from what they've done for several other bikes: about 150.00 for the front end (unless they decide they need to start over, and put an entirely different system up front...but, the front isn't awful to begin with), and retail about 800-something...but, they've always given forum members a big break for a while, somewhere in the mid-500 range.

These are just guesses. I don't work for them, I just get to ride a lot of bikes with their products installed.

I just came back from a ride a few minutes ago....when the road is silky-smooth, it's not a bad handling bike even in very fast turns. The roads just aren't silky smooth like very often, and I've had the opportunity to compare others to mine.

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post #20 of 37 Old 10-10-2009, 05:35 PM
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So my 919 is not SUPPOSED to bounce my ass off the saddle at every opportunity?

Who knew?

Now that I've owned a motorcycle for over a year, I really need to ride some other bikes.

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post #21 of 37 Old 10-10-2009, 05:57 PM
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So, I'm not trying to be pushy here, but somewhere between $150 and $800 dollars, but probably more like $500 for forum members. Why didn't you just say between $500 and $800? And that's for the front... what's the rear looking like? I'm going to guess somewhere between $7.75 and $14,000.

Just kidding around of course, but really, that's a HUGE gap. What's the $150 if retail is $800? That's an incredible markup. 530% even. Sounds like a furniture store.

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post #22 of 37 Old 10-10-2009, 06:42 PM
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So, I'm not trying to be pushy here, but somewhere between $150 and $800 dollars, but probably more like $500 for forum members. Why didn't you just say between $500 and $800? And that's for the front... what's the rear looking like? I'm going to guess somewhere between $7.75 and $14,000.

Just kidding around of course, but really, that's a HUGE gap. What's the $150 if retail is $800? That's an incredible markup. 530% even. Sounds like a furniture store.
It is more about what needs, or might need, to be done. If you can get the forks to perform the way you want with springs and a different fluid, then you are at about 150. However, if you need a partial rebuild (actuators), then you are 400-500. However, if you need a rebuild that requires some machining etc (on top of everything else) you are at 800ish. Then, you could always put all new guts into the legs (if anyone makes them) and be even more....

In the end, I still say the bike works pretty well for someone my "size." And, I don't ride slow and I do ride trackdays. But, to each their own.

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post #23 of 37 Old 10-10-2009, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
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So, I'm not trying to be pushy here, but somewhere between $150 and $800 dollars, but probably more like $500 for forum members. Why didn't you just say between $500 and $800? And that's for the front... what's the rear looking like? I'm going to guess somewhere between $7.75 and $14,000.

Just kidding around of course, but really, that's a HUGE gap. What's the $150 if retail is $800? That's an incredible markup. 530% even. Sounds like a furniture store.


I understand your shock and dismay, and it was due to my poor writing. Sorry about that!

I left out a word: REAR. The REAR will probably be 500-something for early forum member adopters, while being about 800-something retail.

The FRONT will only be about 150 if they can do a drop-in, the REAR will be around 800 Retail for an entirely new shock.

I'm talking about Retail 1000.00 to completely modernize the suspension front and rear. I'm going first, believe me, and will pay whatever discount they allow early adopters to pay...because I've ridden many of the bikes with their suspensions. One ride sells the technology.

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post #24 of 37 Old 10-10-2009, 09:34 PM Thread Starter
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So my 919 is not SUPPOSED to bounce my ass off the saddle at every opportunity?

Who knew?

Now that I've owned a motorcycle for over a year, I really need to ride some other bikes.


Find an SV650 with a RICOR suspension front and rear. I know I'll never be satisfied with the 919 until I have it upgraded....it's that much different.

If you are already "fast" on the 919 on stock suspension, you'll redefine your definition of "fast" if you upgrade it.

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post #25 of 37 Old 10-11-2009, 01:42 AM
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Do you know what format the shock will be presented in - adjustability, etc. Will it have a remotely adjustable reservoir for quick adjust, for 2up riding?

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post #26 of 37 Old 10-11-2009, 06:42 AM
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Go to the RICOR website. You'll get a better understanding of what BH is talking about. Interesting stuff. I alrady have an Ohlins on back, so I'm good there.

If the inertia valve in the front fork does what they claim, That would be money well spent. I would think it'd be reasonably simple for RICOR to make/adapt that to fit the 919 forks.

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post #27 of 37 Old 10-11-2009, 06:46 AM
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post #28 of 37 Old 10-11-2009, 08:52 AM Thread Starter
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Do you know what format the shock will be presented in - adjustability, etc. Will it have a remotely adjustable reservoir for quick adjust, for 2up riding?
No, they'd be starting from an empty CAD design. My GUESS is they won't go the Remote Reservoir, unless there is a LOT of requests for it. But, there's only what I'd call mild interest from the Forum. The best thing about this technology is that the Intertia Valve does the "adjusting" automatically...it doesn't matter so much about the total weight being carried. You'd just have to get the spring appropriate for your conditions, and re-set your pre-load to match the weight being put on it.

Or, you could do like I've done and get one stiffer-than-called-for spring, and give up a little of the plush ride over tiny bumps, in order to be able to load it heavy and still perform great over hard off-road riding...while still having a softer-than-normal ride over the tiny bumps. (This is on my Dual-Sport bike, not the CB.)

It's not as sensitive to spring-rates as Standard shock technology. I'm not kidding when I say it's a new technology. It's like having a 1957 Roadmaster cushioned ride over small bumps, while having a Formula 1 chassis stiffness whenever forces are trying to pull the bike down. The result is the small bumps disappear, while the chassis is kept much more in the center of the shock's range of total travel...where it's most effective at responding to either an additional compression input, or a rebound event.

I can state without equivocation that traction is improved on the bikes that I've ridden with this. It goes without saying ride quality is vastly improved. Hard hits are no longer "sharp".... previously sharp hits instead feel like you hit a much smaller rubber object. You'll just have to feel it to believe it. I really hope they're able to make one to work on our bikes as well as the other bikes I've ridden with this technology.

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post #29 of 37 Old 10-11-2009, 09:05 AM Thread Starter
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Look at the IAS section...that's what we'd need on the rear shock. Also, I see I was understating the price on the Front...they retail for nearly 300.00. The 150-200 range was the early adopter Forum prices they gave us for a while.

If you want to see them in action, watch the video of that off-road buggy. Notice how wild the wheels go up and down, while the chassis cab stays calm and nearly flat. THAT is what it feels like on Dual-sport bikes. When on the SV650, I could hit a bump in a turn at about 90 mph and stay on line...whereas on my CB, I hit that bump at about 70 and about lost it...while taking up more than my lane of road.

I never want to be in that position again...that's why I'm trying to generate interest from the forum members, so they'll work on something for our bike more quickly. It's a totally selfish effort, I'll admit it. I just don't want to sell such a potentially great bike in order to buy one that has this suspension technology available.

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post #30 of 37 Old 10-11-2009, 11:17 AM
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Having owned an SV650, I know those bikes have damping rod forks that benefit greatly from a set of cartridge emulators. Ricor's inertia valve is apparently a great improvement over emulators. I get that. However, the 919 has cartridge forks. I'm not understanding how these would be improved by the Ricor valve, which is meant to make a damping rod fork perform like a cartridge fork. Am I missing something?

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post #31 of 37 Old 10-11-2009, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
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Having owned an SV650, I know those bikes have damping rod forks that benefit greatly from a set of cartridge emulators. Ricor's inertia valve is apparently a great improvement over emulators. I get that. However, the 919 has cartridge forks. I'm not understanding how these would be improved by the Ricor valve, which is meant to make a damping rod fork perform like a cartridge fork. Am I missing something?
They can do either...the problem with Cartridges is they don't have as much surface area to manipulate. That's one of the decisions they have to make after they open it up to look at it.

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post #32 of 37 Old 10-12-2009, 01:40 PM
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here is an email i got from RICOR today, looks like we should start investing in race tech. .

Unfortunately the Hornet has cartridge front forks. It will be at least a year before we address the cartridges. The Intiminators only fit in old fashioned damper rod front forks.

I rode a Hornet recently, I was amazed how much the front forks dove when I approached the red light intersections. Maybe the Race Tech option would work better for now.

Thanks,
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post #33 of 37 Old 10-12-2009, 02:04 PM Thread Starter
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here is an email i got from RICOR today, looks like we should start investing in race tech. .

Unfortunately the Hornet has cartridge front forks. It will be at least a year before we address the cartridges. The Intiminators only fit in old fashioned damper rod front forks.

I rode a Hornet recently, I was amazed how much the front forks dove when I approached the red light intersections. Maybe the Race Tech option would work better for now.

Thanks,
Don
Guess who's Hornet he rode? And the front end of our bike is better than the rear....I'm hoping to get them to do the rear end first.

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post #34 of 37 Old 10-12-2009, 02:53 PM
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I looked down at my forks yesterday, coming to a stop. This is basically just pulling out of work at about 20km/h and stopping at the intersection 10m's down the road, damn amazing how much the forks dove just at that speed!
I was watching my mom and dad on his 9'ner the other day (riding alongside them a few lanes apart) they went over an uneven section of road, looked like they were riding a damn seesaw.

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post #35 of 37 Old 10-12-2009, 03:28 PM Thread Starter
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I was watching my mom and dad on his 9'ner the other day (riding alongside them a few lanes apart) they went over an uneven section of road, looked like they were riding a damn seesaw.
Certainly a lot of room for improvement!

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post #36 of 37 Old 10-12-2009, 07:56 PM
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By the race tech option, I assume he's talking about replacing the springs? Granted, I'm not a racer, and I also seem to be in the correct weight range (170-175) that the bikes are sprung for from the factory, but I would rate the stock 919 front end dive as much less than my stock SV650's front end dive, and about equal to the amount of dive I got from the SV with stiffer springs and emulators. In short, I'm okay with the front end, but I definitely could see some of you heavier guys (and those who ride 2-up) needing stiffer springs up front.

I might be interested in a rear upgrade, but my wallet doesn't stretch much past $500 for optional add-ons. But that's just me.

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post #37 of 37 Old 10-13-2009, 02:14 AM
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Throw a $100 spring at that rear shock.

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