Stock 919 chain length verses 112 links. - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 92 Old 11-08-2007, 12:23 PM Thread Starter
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Stock 919 chain length verses 112 links.

Some of us (xrmikey, robtharlson & myself) have found that 112 links will not fit the stock 16/43 gearing, that it's just to short. Others (hondaJim, motorwerks919 & MisterMike) say that 112 likes works just fine with adjustment both ways.
I have compared part numbers from 02 to 06 on engine cases, frame, swingarm, chain adjusters and adjuster bolts and they're all the same.
So, what I want to figure out is why 112 links works on some 919's and not on others. The simple answer could be in how we are counting the number of pins (links) in the chain. Maybe some of us aren't counting the master link pins and others are. I'm also suspicious about the length of the chain adjusters & bolts.
I hope we can figure this out and eliminate at least one of the many weird mysteries of the 919.
It's not that I have to much time on my hands (I'm swamped at work) It's just that this discrepancy has been bugging me for a while now.
What do you guys think.

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post #2 of 92 Old 11-08-2007, 12:32 PM
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Nothing weird going on here, 112 links works fine for stock gearing. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Counting links is a not rocket science.

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post #3 of 92 Old 11-08-2007, 12:41 PM
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Bought a stock 114 link chain, removed two links (because if you only remove one it's really hard to make work), move the adjusters up, ala 112 link chain and stock gearing.

Maybe all you west coasters have higher ambient temps and your swingarm expands.

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post #4 of 92 Old 11-08-2007, 12:45 PM
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112 worked for me!

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post #5 of 92 Old 11-08-2007, 12:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMike View Post
Nothing weird going on here, 112 links works fine for stock gearing. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Counting links is a not rocket science.
I believe you Mike, but 112 links will not fit the stock 16/43 gearing on mine. Something somewhere is different, but what?

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post #6 of 92 Old 11-08-2007, 12:47 PM
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112 Links since my 02 was a few months old (dealer shortened stock under warranty).

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post #7 of 92 Old 11-08-2007, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HondaJim View Post
Maybe all you west coasters have higher ambient temps and your swingarm expands.
**Ping** xrmikey, robtharlson, and any other 919 CA owners.

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post #8 of 92 Old 11-08-2007, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMike View Post
**Ping** xrmikey, robtharlson, and any other 919 CA owners.
It is interesting to note that Rob, Mikey and myself are all in Ca., but if Honda made something different on the Cali model, wouldn't it have a different part number?

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post #9 of 92 Old 11-08-2007, 01:25 PM
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There is a new part number for the swingarm, a new one superceeds the older one. Maybe they changed the swingarm at some point?

Back in 02 everyone complainded the chain was too long then alll of the sudden that kind of stopped & seems no one mentions it much anymore

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post #10 of 92 Old 11-08-2007, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce919er View Post
There is a new part number for the swingarm, a new one superceeds the older one. Maybe they changed the swingarm at some point?

Back in 02 everyone complainded the chain was too long then alll of the sudden that kind of stopped & seems no one mentions it much anymore
You're absolutely right! I just checked another on-line parts fische and saw where the old part number (52200-mcz-000) had been superseded by a new number (52200-mcz-010) That's gotta be it. Thanks Bryce!

I guess I was looking at an old fische or maybe just not looking close enough. I'll pay closer attention next time.
Thanks guys.

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post #11 of 92 Old 11-08-2007, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbeenracer View Post
It is interesting to note that Rob, Mikey and myself are all in Ca., but if Honda made something different on the Cali model, wouldn't it have a different part number?
Just my poor attempt to inject a little humor into this thread!

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post #12 of 92 Old 11-08-2007, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMike View Post
Just my poor attempt to inject a little humor into this thread!
You know Mike, it does get cold here in California. Today the temp plunged all the way down into the low 70's. BURRRRRRRRR!

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post #13 of 92 Old 11-08-2007, 02:58 PM
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Hmmm. Different swingarms; maybe that's why my bike is so much faster than Jlux21's.

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post #14 of 92 Old 11-08-2007, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce919er View Post
There is a new part number for the swingarm, a new one superceeds the older one. Maybe they changed the swingarm at some point?

Back in 02 everyone complainded the chain was too long then alll of the sudden that kind of stopped & seems no one mentions it much anymore
You think Honda would have just used a shorter chain instead of going to all the trouble of spec-ing a different swingarm.

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post #15 of 92 Old 11-08-2007, 06:25 PM
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Just out of curiosity. Has anyone measured the slot length that the Axel goes through?
Or more likely, the length of the rear of the swing arm to the front of the slot.
Mine needed about an 1/8" to 3/16" of more forward adjustment to work.
I removed the backing plate from the adjuster & got it to work. barely....

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post #16 of 92 Old 11-08-2007, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbeenracer View Post
You think Honda would have just used a shorter chain instead of going to all the trouble of spec-ing a different swingarm.
Quite possibly a "new" jig. It might of made the length just a tad longer.
It is Honda you know.

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post #17 of 92 Old 11-08-2007, 07:34 PM
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for real???

a diff swingarm?

mic it now...what exactly has changed??

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post #18 of 92 Old 11-08-2007, 10:16 PM
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OK hasbeen, you got me curious.

My '02 919

112 chain links
slot length = 47mm
slot start from end of swingarm = 14mm
swingarm length from end of arm to pivot center = 23.5 inches

I think these measurements are pretty close. The swingarm length might be off, hard to measure with the stock footpeg mounts in place.

'02 Honda 919 - She's the only one for me!

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post #19 of 92 Old 11-08-2007, 11:54 PM
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Stock gearing on 49 state '02 model.
114 link chain, cannot shorten until near the end of the chain's life. Swingarm length 23.5 inches, distance from rear of swingarm to front of slot is 60 mm (2.365 inches), which corresponds closely to Sugs' measurement. I'll check the distance from the swingarm pivot to the countershaft when I do the next round of oiler nozzle adjustment. I checked the part numbers of the frame for the '02, '03, and '04 models -- same number, which either implies Honda has updated the frame to move the motor back about 16 to 22 mm in an effort to make wheelies easier or (more likely) to unload the front wheel slightly. I'll see if I can measure the c'shaft/pivot distance this weekend. That's got to be where the difference is!
We'll figure this out, I hope.

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post #20 of 92 Old 11-09-2007, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
Stock gearing on 49 state '02 model.
114 link chain, cannot shorten until near the end of the chain's life.

Rob
One of my 919 riding buddies recently replaced his clapped out chain with a new 112 link DID VM Series Premium X-Ring - 530VM gold. His 02' is a 49 state 919 with stock gearing.

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post #21 of 92 Old 11-09-2007, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
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The most up to date parts fische I have found is from Beaver Dam Honda / Kawasaki, as they list superceded part numbers and the year it changed.The Part number for the swingarm changed in 2003 and the part number for the frame changed from 50100-mcz-670za to 50100-mcz-a10za in 2004.
So now we know that the frame and swingarm have up-dated part numbers.
Could this be where the difference is?

I guess the question now would be to find out if someone with a 04' or later 919 can or can't run 112 links with stock 16/43 gearing.

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post #22 of 92 Old 11-09-2007, 09:11 AM
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If Rob cant run a 112 on his 02 it throws every theory off.

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post #23 of 92 Old 11-09-2007, 09:43 AM
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u stoners r killin me...

i've got a loose swingarm in the shop, lemme see what's up

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post #24 of 92 Old 11-09-2007, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce919er View Post
If Rob cant run a 112 on his 02 it throws every theory off.
True. So would that mean it's the swingarm (that could of been changed late in the 02' production run) thats making the difference between those of us who can run 112 links and those of us who can't?

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post #25 of 92 Old 11-09-2007, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratdog View Post
u stoners r killin me...

i've got a loose swingarm in the shop, lemme see what's up
What year is your swingarm?

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post #26 of 92 Old 11-09-2007, 10:53 AM
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awww man, excellent point

i bought it used, i know what i was told but in this case, i'd want to verify

i'm thinking it's a non-cali 02, figured w/ it being loose would make it much easier to measure everything and i need to get it to the powdercoaters anyway, he's got my other stuff and is waiting on it so all the color mixes are the same

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post #27 of 92 Old 11-09-2007, 12:46 PM
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Elvis, Jimmy Hoffa, the Bermuda Triangle, and 919 chain length.

Inquiring minds want to know, but are unlikely to find out.
Okay, all bets are off -- Sugs' 49 state '02 can run 112, while my 49 state '02 can't, despite carefully measuring the swingarm and finding the exact same dimensions. Are these things made in Italy? Or is it a case of the frame fixtures heating up over a day of use and changing? Was Mars in alignment with Neptune when the frame was welded together? We may never know.
Hell with it -- I like mine the way it is, and while it would be interesting to find out what's going on I'll still ride it 105 miles a day with a huge grin on my face, confident in the knowledge that longer is better than shorter.

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post #28 of 92 Old 11-09-2007, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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Actually Rob, Elvis and Jimmy Hoffa are doing fine. I sat with them on the spaceship the other night while flying over the Bermuda Triangle. True story.

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post #29 of 92 Old 11-09-2007, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbeenracer View Post
Actually Rob, Elvis and Jimmy Hoffa are doing fine. I sat with them on the spaceship the other night while flying over the Bermuda Triangle. True story.
Funny you should mention Hoffa -- the next time you see him, could you discreetly ask about the Nixon connection? Is Mariyn still going with Elvis?

By the way, while attending one of my cousin's deservedly famous bohemian parties, including a digery do concert (you would be amazed what an experienced player can do! Get it? Do -- never mind), drum circle, impromptu ballet jam to a piano, naked nymphs dancing amongst the revelers, legendary multiethnic pot luck with his 800 pound barbeque built to look like a huge iron pig with occasional showers of embers from its ... er ... nether region, and a poetry reading by Jim Morrison. One selection was a particularly effective juxtaposition of jet black outlook and outrageous humor. His '02 can run 110 links. Oh, and Janis Joplin says Hi! (as only she can)

Rob

P.S. Only two facts given about the party were fictional -- hmmm ....

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post #30 of 92 Old 11-09-2007, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
Funny you should mention Hoffa -- the next time you see him, could you discreetly ask about the Nixon connection? Is Mariyn still going with Elvis?

By the way, while attending one of my cousin's deservedly famous bohemian parties, including a digery do concert (you would be amazed what an experienced player can do! Get it? Do -- never mind), drum circle, impromptu ballet jam to a piano, naked nymphs dancing amongst the revelers, legendary multiethnic pot luck with his 800 pound barbeque built to look like a huge iron pig with occasional showers of embers from its ... er ... nether region, and a poetry reading by Jim Morrison. One selection was a particularly effective juxtaposition of jet black outlook and outrageous humor. His '02 can run 110 links. Oh, and Janis Joplin says Hi! (as only she can)

Rob

P.S. Only two facts given about the party were fictional -- hmmm ....
I want pics of the naked nymphs!

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post #31 of 92 Old 11-10-2007, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbeenracer View Post
The most up to date parts fische I have found is from Beaver Dam Honda / Kawasaki, as they list superceded part numbers and the year it changed.The Part number for the swingarm changed in 2003 and the part number for the frame changed from 50100-mcz-670za to 50100-mcz-a10za in 2004.
So now we know that the frame and swingarm have up-dated part numbers.
Could this be where the difference is?
Just because part numbers are different doesn't mean the parts are actually different.

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post #32 of 92 Old 11-10-2007, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RxRC View Post
Just because part numbers are different doesn't mean the parts are actually different.
Quite true. It's my understanding that a manufacture will sometimes change a part number because that paticular part becomes shared by multipal models.
I would still like to figure out why some of us can run 112 link chains on our 919's and some of us can't, as I'm stubbornly curious about weird little anomalies like this, as well as other things that have absolutly no bearing on evey day life. Yep, I'm nuts.

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post #33 of 92 Old 11-10-2007, 10:26 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
Funny you should mention Hoffa -- the next time you see him, could you discreetly ask about the Nixon connection? Is Mariyn still going with Elvis?

By the way, while attending one of my cousin's deservedly famous bohemian parties, including a digery do concert (you would be amazed what an experienced player can do! Get it? Do -- never mind), drum circle, impromptu ballet jam to a piano, naked nymphs dancing amongst the revelers, legendary multiethnic pot luck with his 800 pound barbeque built to look like a huge iron pig with occasional showers of embers from its ... er ... nether region, and a poetry reading by Jim Morrison. One selection was a particularly effective juxtaposition of jet black outlook and outrageous humor. His '02 can run 110 links. Oh, and Janis Joplin says Hi! (as only she can)

Rob

P.S. Only two facts given about the party were fictional -- hmmm ....
I'm willing to bet the part about Jim Morrison was true. As for the rest of the story, who knows? If your cousin lived in the Calabasas / Malibu area in the 60's/70's I wouldn't doubt any of it!

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post #34 of 92 Old 11-10-2007, 12:26 PM
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Maybe it' has nothing to do with swingarms ect...I remeber some not being able to run 112 because of tire profiles,and after market huggers.

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post #35 of 92 Old 11-10-2007, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbeenracer View Post
I would still like to figure out why some of us can run 112 link chains on our 919's and some of us can't, as I'm stubbornly curious about weird little anomalies like this, as well as other things that have absolutly no bearing on evey day life. Yep, I'm nuts.
You want to get to the bottom of this mystery in a systematic way. Bring your bike to CT and I would be more than happy to evaluate and solve it.

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post #36 of 92 Old 11-10-2007, 02:07 PM Thread Starter
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My 919 is a CA. model, it's allergic to snow!

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post #37 of 92 Old 11-10-2007, 08:02 PM
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I have an 06' 919 CA model.
I have 112 links on it right now.
This is what I had to do with my adjusters to get it to fit.(removed backing plate in adjuster)
It has been adjusted twice since I put the chain on.
Minor adjustments.
When I first put on the new chain I had about 1/32" gap between the adjuster screw & the swing arm. Now its about 3/32".
Attachment 4576

Attachment 4577

Attachment 4578

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post #38 of 92 Old 11-11-2007, 07:08 AM Thread Starter
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This is exactly how I remedied my 112 link issue, and I really like how the bike tracks through the corners now. From entry to mid-corner and from mid-corner out, the bike has a more planted, stable feeling through the corners. It always felt a little wobbly through the corners with the stock 114 link chain. Hiway stabilty didn't seem to be effected one bit.
Thanks XRMIKEY for posting those pictures.
If anyone is thinking about shortening-up thier chain/wheelbase, I highly recomend it.

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post #39 of 92 Old 11-11-2007, 08:20 AM
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It's the chain........ duuuuuh!

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post #40 of 92 Old 11-11-2007, 08:20 AM
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Wow that was 500.

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