startup with PCIII - Wrist Twisters
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 16 Old 07-16-2007, 06:51 PM Thread Starter
Cornicen
 
drivit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: toronto
Posts: 530
Rep Power: 1
 
startup with PCIII

my powercommander works great, no more bogging, runs cooler and pulls harder, but it doesn't start as well as before.
the idle's turned up, but it still cranks longer and i need to give it more throttle.
how can i get it to start like before?

drivit is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 Old 07-16-2007, 07:00 PM
Primus Pilus
 
BockHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Normal, IL
Posts: 3,432
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage
Others have had that problem. They solved it by ignoring it. What map are you running? Some folks have had trouble with certain version of Dan Kyle's map on cold starts. You might try running the map from the www.919.org site.

2002 919 40,000 miles
"racing is life...everything else is just waiting"
BockHawk is offline  
post #3 of 16 Old 07-17-2007, 03:50 PM Thread Starter
Cornicen
 
drivit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: toronto
Posts: 530
Rep Power: 1
 
i'll ignore it for now, the map's from the powercommander site. do the buttons do anything for this?

drivit is offline  
post #4 of 16 Old 07-17-2007, 09:08 PM
BrokeRecord
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: West Monroe,La
Posts: 1,180
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

Pc ???

Is the P. Commander worth the $350? Can any one tell a distinct difference on the 919?

[
brokerecord is offline  
post #5 of 16 Old 07-17-2007, 09:16 PM
Crotchety Rocket
 
cmelnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 1,426
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Extraordinary Ride 
Total Awards: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokerecord View Post
Is the P. Commander worth the $350? Can any one tell a distinct difference on the 919?
If you're paying $350 for a PCIII alone, you're getting ripped off. You should be able to find a new one for the $260-275 range.

I had a PCIII on my stock exhaust 919 for a while, and yes, I could tell a difference. With the maps I used it was a lot smoother in whole RPM range, but especially the lower. I never dyno'ed or anything so I don't know about any HP increases, but it did seem to react more quickly (rev up/down). Could have just been perception tho.

That being said, I ended up having trouble w/ mine, and had to remove it. I'm now running stock. If you search around this forum, you'll find lots of people that have had problems (as well as lots of people who have had none).

Here's my own bad experience.

My goal is simple. It is a complete understanding of the universe, why it is as it is and why it exists at all.
- Stephen Hawking
cmelnick is offline  
post #6 of 16 Old 07-17-2007, 09:31 PM
Old, Bold rider
 
robtharalson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Aurora, Colorado
Posts: 2,347
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage

Awards Showcase
Donation Veteran Community Leadership 
Total Awards: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokerecord View Post
Is the P. Commander worth the $350? Can any one tell a distinct difference on the 919?
It strictly depends on how you intend to use the bike -- if its primary use is commuting and/or touring then it is probably not needed. On the other hand, if you plan to use it for lengthy recreational weekend blasts on twisty roads or regular excursions past the reasonable part of the tach (that's above 7,500), then it's probably for you. There have been some reliability issues as well, but a goodly percentage of them are due more to installation mistakes than any major systemic problems. Oh, sure -- there have been units that just quit, but if it was common they wouldn't be in business very long.
What it all boils down to is do you like to tinker? If so, and you have the ability to properly install it, then go forth. Otherwise, the 919 is an excellent bike completely stock, as mine is, and will put a smile on your face every time you ride it (especially when you show car drivers what high performance is really all about).

Rob

If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
------- Rob --------
robtharalson is offline  
post #7 of 16 Old 07-17-2007, 09:32 PM
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,379
Rep Power: 0
 
Based on what I have read down below, a too lean condition is causing hard starting, I would try the Simpson Two Brothers map and also try richening it up via the three buttons.


Quote:
typhoonblue919:
btw... uninstalled and sold 2 yrs ago for 150 bucks. I was out 150 plus 70 for the dyno tuning but I was having probs with the bike on cold starts and it was messing with my idle. Tune it to start cold better then it ran like a dog.

razorbike
I started out with the new Dan Kyle Sato map. Seemed to be too lean with hard cold starting and turning the header pipes blue up close to the head. Also, it ran hotter than normal in summer weather Switched to LDH's 919satonew2 map at 919.org. Seemed to improve but still a little difficult on cold start. From the way he described it it's just Kyles map that he's tweeked. Still a little concerned. Have played around with the 3 buttons with a little more improvement.

razorbike
Went for a 30 mile ride with the Simpsonracing.djm and here's my feedback.

(side note: was running 919satonew2.map previously)

I set the buttons exactly as prescribed:

- Starts MUCH easier cold or hot


razorbike
I'm still running it. Have played with the buttons and showed improvement.

Currently running:
Low - 2 bars rich
Mid - 2 bars rich
High - 3 bars rich

It is very responsive all over and one thing in particular is it runs consistently cooler and in traffic the temp doesn't come up as fast. Had tried the Kyle Sato2 map and LDH's 2 Sato maps for Gen 2. They performed pretty well, but I had concerns about them being too lean.


razorbike
Your experience with the Kyle map matches mine exactly, Ken. After running the pre-installed map for a while, it ran great but I noticed that the headers were turning blue about a couple of inches beyond the exhaust ports. Also had the discoloring (blueish) Sato tips. It was hard to start when cold as well. From what I understand from others here, these are signs of running too lean and was quite concerned. Started richening it up across the board with the buttons and it seemed to improve a little. Still a little baffled that the Kyle map along with the modified versions of it that LDH has available on 919.org tend to run lean. These maps supposedly originated in Dan Kyle's shop using proper tuning equipment.

Ken
I'm with you ramrod. I've been running this map for a couple of weeks now, and I'm really pleased with it overall. I haven't made any manual trim changes on the PC and it starts fine in the colder AM temps, run smooth, accelerates nicely, and has a great band throughout. I highly recommend this map.
Most information gleamed from this thread:
https://www.wristtwisters.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=5469

motorwerks919 is offline  
post #8 of 16 Old 07-18-2007, 04:51 AM
orange
 
sbeau1960's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 9,193
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Donation Community Service 
Total Awards: 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokerecord View Post
Is the P. Commander worth the $350? Can any one tell a distinct difference on the 919?
I just installed a PCIII last weekend, can definitely tell a major difference in performance. I'd recently installed Sato exhausts and my bike had lost power at low rpm's and didn't idle very smooth. The PCIII smoothed it out and returned the power to low rpm's, now it pulls stronger than stock all the way up the tach. It idles better than stock as well, always did have a slight lope to the idle. Full throttle in first brings the front up without even trying, never did that stock!

Now hopefully I won't have any of the problems that others have had with their PCIII installations, I followed directions to the T and was very careful with my wiring and grounds, so far, so good.

sbeau1960 is offline  
post #9 of 16 Old 07-18-2007, 04:52 AM
orange
 
sbeau1960's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 9,193
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Donation Community Service 
Total Awards: 6

BTW, $269 + $10 shipping from Dan Kyle Racing.

sbeau1960 is offline  
post #10 of 16 Old 07-18-2007, 08:08 AM
BrokeRecord
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: West Monroe,La
Posts: 1,180
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

Pc

Thanks for the replys, I think I'll save the $$ for creature comforts, like a center stand, windshield, and case savers.

[
brokerecord is offline  
post #11 of 16 Old 07-18-2007, 10:23 AM
Church of the Holy Smoke
 
MotoCycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SLC, UT
Posts: 1,085
Rep Power: 1
 
Changing maps will not likely affect the starts and adjusting with the buttons is like smashing flies with a backhoe. I know I have explained this before.. but here goes again. To richen the PC3 at idle speeds you will need to adjust the cells in the table of the map you are using and send it to the PC3 with the software. It's real easy to do with a notebook or even take your PC3 to your PC. The reason changing maps won't help is because every map I have seen adjusts nothing in the idle speed range, which is zero throttle and between 800 to 1500 RPMs. Add some fuel to those cells while bike is running and send map. You will hear a instant change in idle, I guarantee it. You want richer starts.. add fuel in these cells. I have yet to see a map that has anything but zeros in these cells. BTW, zero means it's supposed to be running the stock ECU fuel value for that particular cell.


- Rev. CYCHO -

tires.... it's what's for dinner!
MotoCycho is offline  
post #12 of 16 Old 07-18-2007, 11:19 PM
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,379
Rep Power: 0
 
I appreciate what you are saying MotoCycho, I know that you are very well versed with PC's. I just don't get how the addition of a PCIII causes starting problems if it does not adjust the starting conditions at all.

motorwerks919 is offline  
post #13 of 16 Old 07-19-2007, 02:45 AM
Church of the Holy Smoke
 
MotoCycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SLC, UT
Posts: 1,085
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorwerks919 View Post
I appreciate what you are saying MotoCycho, I know that you are very well versed with PC's. I just don't get how the addition of a PCIII causes starting problems if it does not adjust the starting conditions at all.
Oh I won't argue with you there. I am not wholly convinced a PC3 is all that cool. I mean in theory it should be the bomb for correcting AFR but I have had plenty of problems with several that have failed in my charge. My previous post is simply to show that changing a map should not affect, one way or another, how easily the bike starts unless you edit the fuel cells for the range in which the engine is running at startup.. presumably the 800 - 1500 RPM at zero throttle position. The key words in the last sentence are "should not". That said, I am in no way advocating getting a PC3. That's an endorsement I leave alone. I have one.. my current one works great. It took 4 of them to get one that wasn't a POS. Draw your own conclusions.

- Rev. CYCHO -

tires.... it's what's for dinner!
MotoCycho is offline  
post #14 of 16 Old 07-24-2007, 07:42 PM Thread Starter
Cornicen
 
drivit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: toronto
Posts: 530
Rep Power: 1
 
great discussion, increasing the idle is what produced the flawless starts.
stock it's rich, so a little more air made it perfect.
thats what the idle adjustment does, i think.
maybe the PCIII is just slightly leaner without revealing it, so i'm gonna try turning the idle back down to richen it again and see. but i love it.........the bike rocks.

drivit is offline  
post #15 of 16 Old 07-24-2007, 07:52 PM
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,379
Rep Power: 0
 
So are you saying you turned the idle up and it starts better now?

motorwerks919 is offline  
post #16 of 16 Old 07-24-2007, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
Cornicen
 
drivit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: toronto
Posts: 530
Rep Power: 1
 
the stock bike starts instantly with the idle tuned up. no throttle just push the button, right. so my simple logic is to try the opposite.

drivit is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wrist Twisters forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome