Somewhat of a "Build Thread" - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 151 Old 07-04-2015, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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Somewhat of a "Build Thread"

Alright. So I've posted a few threads here and there, asked some (silly, mostly) questions, got answers - now, I thought I'd let you guys live vicariously a bit. =)

As you probably know, I bought myself an 06 919, after selling the RC51. I'll miss the RC's engine dearly, but not its registration/insurance costs, and most of all, certainly not its ergos. The goal with this bike is to get something reliable, that's fast enough when I want it to but that's quite comfortable cruising around at some pretty low-key speeds (100 km/h, kinda [60 mph]). It was also to get something a bit less expensive, so that I can invest in as-good-as-I-can-get suspension components. I'd long been wanting to see what all the fuss was about. After researching here, I've got a few ideas of the mods I want to do. So, follow along if you'd like, you're welcome to stay as long as you want!

So, planned mods :

- Ohlins rear. I've already settled on, and ordered, the HO322. I ride solo almost exclusively, and am mostly a set-it-and-forget it type. My funds are not unlimited, and I thought the dollar difference between it and the 201 would be better invested elsewhere. I ordered it from a local-ish suspension specialist (Windmill Motorsports in Ottawa), who I'll pick it up from. Many thanks to LDH for the deal he's offering, but I thought I'd try to support somebody local if I could;

- I was originally going to do either a revalve up front, or at the very least, new springs. But, I saw Ditch's forks thread and thought that was a mighty good deal for what one would be getting, if only I could convince him to sell them to me. Mission accomplished, they're on their way to me. =) I wasn't worried about the .95's (I'm 220 in gear), but the length did have me worried. It's speaking to Kyle of Windmill (before buying them!) that cinched the deal for me : he mentioned it would probably be, from what he could see in the pictures, fairly easy to change the ride height, and custom spacers could even be machined to make them the exact same length as stock 919 forks, so we'll see. I'm going to Ottawa at the end of the month, so I'll bring one of my stock 919 forks with me, and both of Ditch's forks for him to work on;

- 900RR header conversion. I've been reading Bart's thread intently, and have also been communicating with him a fair bit (thanks man!). He's been quite good at answering my myriad little questions. I think I've mostly got it figured out, looks pretty straightforward. Gathering parts for this still. Think I've found the muffler (brand-new Micron on clearance), still waiting to try to get a better deal on header. My plan is also to recruit a metal fabrication expert friend of mine, to fabricate a better bracket. My idea would be to basically replicate the passenger luggage bracket (i.e. two bolt holes), but with a downwards extension to bolt the exhaust into. Not sure if this is making sense, but I'll post pics as this develops;

- Stainless steel lines. Already ordered a set (in clear, and the normal chrome banjos) from G&J from sticky thread. Only looking for a firmer feel, as the brake power is sure to be fine for me and my intended uses. From what I've seen riding the bike home, the stock brakes themselves are just fine;

- Various odds and ends. I've already ordered the Chinese shorty levers, and I want to tidy up the tail too. Thinking I'd like to do it myself, but I'd need to buy LED bolts as license plate lights, and an integrated taillight (watching one of each currently on eBay). Will need to dig a bit deeper to find close-up pictures of people's who've done it themselves, specifically the license plate mounting with some aluminum stock;

- Last is a set of six-spoke wheels, but I think that less and less likely. The exhaust will have pretty much exhausted (no bad pun intended) the money I had set aside for the project. Shipping charges are crazy!!!! In any case, I'm planning on keeping this bike a long time (I kept the RC51 for 5 years, and that didn't even seem like that long a time!), and so I don't mind selling some of the OEM stuff I'll be replacing. For instance, OEM 06 forks will be going up for sale if I like the new ones. Same for the exhaust pieces. So, if I can recoup enough money this way, I'll go the six-spoke route. Of course, rear is pretty cheap, and easy - it's the front that has me worried. Anybody confirm whether or not VFR800 front wheels follow the same conventions as F3 ones?

That's it for now! I'll start off by posting pictures of the bike as she currently stands, in a day or two.

Cheers!

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post #2 of 151 Old 07-04-2015, 05:15 PM
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post #3 of 151 Old 07-04-2015, 06:26 PM
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I live in Ottawa and did not know about these guys. I hope to get the
Ohlins you are getting at some point, probably when the existing shock gets tired...

Looking forward to seeing the progress on your bike.

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post #4 of 151 Old 07-04-2015, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
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I actually found out about them (him? principal seems to be a guy named Kyle) in a roundabout way, when looking for 919's. =) There was one for sale I'd spotted in Ottawa, that was being sold by this guy helping his friend out. He said his friend had helped him out a lot in the past, so he was returning the favour and selling this 06 or so 919 for him. From the photos, it kinda looked a little in need of TLC. It needed both tires, chain/sprockets and a battery to pass safety, so the guy, a fully-certified motorcycle mechanic with his own shop, was offering to put all of those parts on for free, only charging his cost (in addition to the cost of the bike, of course).

I bought my 919 right after seeing it because it was very clean, but when looking for a suspension specialist in the Ottawa region, I contacted him again. I knew he'd probably have a good idea because I was in Ottawa two weeks ago (had not bought the 919 yet) and tried to drop by his shop to check out the 919, and was told he was away at the races - either racing himself, or acting as pit crew of sorts. Either way, figured he'd know the scene a bit.

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post #5 of 151 Old 07-05-2015, 09:56 AM
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I saw that ad - the bike did look like it needed care! Will be really interested to see how your bike turns out. Let us know what kind of service you get from that guy.

Are you getting a PC3 for the 900RR exhaust conversion?

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post #6 of 151 Old 07-05-2015, 10:55 AM Thread Starter
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I wasn't planning to. I can't remember the specific threads, but I do remember people mentioning that the bike just felt right after the exhaust transplant without the PCIII. Someone even had it taken to a dyno and said the A/F numbers were fine on the stock map, so I just remember basically ruling out the PCIII as a necessary component. Plus, it's another point of failure. But, if it makes a tangible difference, I could be coaxed into getting it. =)

My RC had one - but then again, it had aftermarket cans and that bike was known to have less-than-ideal fueling at times (especially with non-stock exhausts) and to respond well to the PCIII. My map was a Dan Kyle one. I never rode it without, mind you, so can't give an A->B comparison.

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post #7 of 151 Old 07-05-2015, 04:43 PM
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I'm quite intrigued by the forks that will be going on.........................

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post #8 of 151 Old 07-05-2015, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
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Makes two of us! =)

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post #9 of 151 Old 07-05-2015, 05:18 PM
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- Last is a set of six-spoke wheels, but I think that less and less likely. The exhaust will have pretty much exhausted (no bad pun intended) the money I had set aside for the project. Shipping charges are crazy!!!!

Keep an eye out on Ebay and various forums. I think I paid about 100.00 for the rear rim and 150.00 for the front (with rotors) then sold my 919 rims and rotors for the same amount.


The front is a CBR F4 wheel if I remember right. All you have to do is play with the spacers and it bolts right in. You have to add some spacers for the calipers, but they are easy.

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post #10 of 151 Old 07-05-2015, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
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Keep an eye out on Ebay and various forums. I think I paid about 100.00 for the rear rim and 150.00 for the front (with rotors) then sold my 919 rims and rotors for the same amount.
Really...!! I just imagined that changing the wheels would be a losing proposition for sure, with me being stuck with 919 rims I don't use, as I figured with everybody wanting to change their rims, there would be an overabundant supply of 919 items...thanks for the idea!

But - who exactly buys 919 rims?? (Not that I mind! =))

Thanks for F3 forums suggestions...found two forums. Not much so far - one seemed rather deserted, the other one, while much more active, didn't seem to have a dedicated classifieds section.

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The front is a CBR F4 wheel if I remember right.
Isn't that F3?

2006 Honda 919
2003 Honda RC51 (sold)
1989 Yamaha FZR400 w/ stock, YZF600, and 661cc engines (661 = YZF600 bottom end, FZR600 top end) (sold)
1986 Yamaha TZR250 (sold)
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post #11 of 151 Old 07-05-2015, 07:06 PM
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I got my 900rr install inspiration from MarylandMike, who has the similar can to what I installed here:

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...one-25022.html

Also, I'll most likely have an F3/900rr front wheel (I'm hoping they'll be the same measurements, I ordered one of each) on my doorstep soon. Both brand new, so if you want one, I'm sure I can swing a deal. But I have to get one of them to fit the 599 before I sell the other.

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post #12 of 151 Old 07-05-2015, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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I'm assuming that by the above, you mean you ordered an F3 and a 98+ 900RR (or was it 99+?), 17" front wheel?

Anybody know the status on whether VFR750 or 800 wheels would also work?

Either way, I'm totally interested! Let me know a price when you're done. Just have to find that guy who said he had spare F3 rotors...

2006 Honda 919
2003 Honda RC51 (sold)
1989 Yamaha FZR400 w/ stock, YZF600, and 661cc engines (661 = YZF600 bottom end, FZR600 top end) (sold)
1986 Yamaha TZR250 (sold)
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post #13 of 151 Old 07-05-2015, 08:28 PM
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It was a dual set of 17" front and rear 900rr wheels. So maybe it was '99 and up. I should get them in a few days... the F3 front wheel I'm sure will take a couple weeks, as it's coming from China.

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post #14 of 151 Old 07-06-2015, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverJS View Post
I'm assuming that by the above, you mean you ordered an F3 and a 98+ 900RR (or was it 99+?), 17" front wheel?

Anybody know the status on whether VFR750 or 800 wheels would also work?

Either way, I'm totally interested! Let me know a price when you're done. Just have to find that guy who said he had spare F3 rotors...
The 94-97 vfr750 front rim is the same as the F3

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post #15 of 151 Old 07-06-2015, 08:43 AM
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Really...!! I just imagined that changing the wheels would be a losing proposition for sure, with me being stuck with 919 rims I don't use, as I figured with everybody wanting to change their rims, there would be an overabundant supply of 919 items...thanks for the idea!

But - who exactly buys 919 rims?? (Not that I mind! =))

Thanks for F3 forums suggestions...found two forums. Not much so far - one seemed rather deserted, the other one, while much more active, didn't seem to have a dedicated classifieds section.



Isn't that F3?
F3, F4.. they both have an F in them...lol. Just keep looking on Ebay. I ended up getting my front rim off of ADV Rider of all places.

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post #16 of 151 Old 07-06-2015, 08:45 AM
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I'm assuming that by the above, you mean you ordered an F3 and a 98+ 900RR (or was it 99+?), 17" front wheel?

Sounds right. I did it a few years ago, so I don't remember the exact details.

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post #17 of 151 Old 07-06-2015, 08:59 AM
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FYI, info on the spacers for your six spoke conversion if you haven't already found it...
https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...ide-55482.html

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post #18 of 151 Old 07-06-2015, 09:08 AM Thread Starter
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I do remember stumbling upon it, thanks - although I thought I later read guys just use a mixture of 919 and F3 spacers, on the 919 axle...?

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post #19 of 151 Old 07-06-2015, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
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I do remember stumbling upon it, thanks - although I thought I later read guys just use a mixture of 919 and F3 spacers, on the 919 axle...?
Yes, they are detailed in that thread by part number on the drawings... Modifying them depends on your definition of "centered"

Also gives a source for the 4mm spacers you will need on your brake calipers.

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post #20 of 151 Old 07-06-2015, 02:39 PM Thread Starter
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Are there any ill handling characteristics if one chooses to just mix and match the OEM spacers?

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post #21 of 151 Old 07-06-2015, 02:42 PM
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Nope, provided you centre the wheel between the fork legs, which you will need to be doing to get the brake calipers aligned over the discs anyway...

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post #22 of 151 Old 07-07-2015, 07:21 AM
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Are there any ill handling characteristics if one chooses to just mix and match the OEM spacers?

Not a single one. I put about 40k on my bike with the 919 rims and 23k with the CBR rims, no difference what so ever.

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post #23 of 151 Old 07-07-2015, 08:59 AM Thread Starter
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I had meant the above question with regards to the front wheel centering. How did you center your own front rim? Mix and match of OEM spacers?

I guess the real question is : are OEM spacers (mix and match 919 and F3) good enough?

As for general handling though (if that's what you were talking about) - yeah, that's what HeliMech was telling me...I originally thought the six-spokers would give some handling benefit from lighter weight, but there's apparently little - if any - weight difference between 919 stockers and the six-spoke wheels. It's purely cosmetic at this point, I think.

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1989 Yamaha FZR400 w/ stock, YZF600, and 661cc engines (661 = YZF600 bottom end, FZR600 top end) (sold)
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post #24 of 151 Old 07-07-2015, 11:15 AM
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Not a single one. I put about 40k on my bike with the 919 rims and 23k with the CBR rims, no difference what so ever.
Except for every time I looked at the front wheel I would KNOW that it is NOT centered!!!

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post #25 of 151 Old 07-07-2015, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
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I guess the real question is : are OEM spacers (mix and match 919 and F3) good enough?
As the first drawing I posted shows, without modification your wheel will be 3mm off-center. That's 0.118" man!

I think the bigger issue however is that the caliper spacers will need to be different left to right.

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post #26 of 151 Old 07-07-2015, 01:44 PM
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I ordered it from a local-ish suspension specialist (Windmill Motorsports in Ottawa), who I'll pick it up from. Many thanks to LDH for the deal he's offering, but I thought I'd try to support somebody local if I could;
Who do you think they buy it from?

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post #27 of 151 Old 07-07-2015, 02:00 PM
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Who do you think they buy it from?
Supporting two birds with one dollar


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post #28 of 151 Old 07-07-2015, 02:40 PM
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Except for every time I looked at the front wheel I would KNOW that it is NOT centered!!!

Humm... mine is centered.

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post #29 of 151 Old 07-07-2015, 02:41 PM
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As the first drawing I posted shows, without modification your wheel will be 3mm off-center. That's 0.118" man!

I think the bigger issue however is that the caliper spacers will need to be different left to right.

My spacers are the same on both sides. What spacers did you use?

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post #30 of 151 Old 07-07-2015, 02:43 PM
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My spacers are the same on both sides. What spacers did you use?
Measured or eyeballed?

My spacers are custom made 4mm thick.

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post #31 of 151 Old 07-07-2015, 02:49 PM
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I had meant the above question with regards to the front wheel centering. How did you center your own front rim? Mix and match of OEM spacers?

I guess the real question is : are OEM spacers (mix and match 919 and F3) good enough?

As for general handling though (if that's what you were talking about) - yeah, that's what HeliMech was telling me...I originally thought the six-spokers would give some handling benefit from lighter weight, but there's apparently little - if any - weight difference between 919 stockers and the six-spoke wheels. It's purely cosmetic at this point, I think.
Mine is a mix and match of the CBR and 919 spacers. I used some aluminum spacers for the calipers.

The six spokes look much better, that's about the only real benefit. The CBR rotors look much better as well.


Here is a pic after I did the swap. I have since powder coated the fork tubes black and built a proper break line holder.



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post #32 of 151 Old 07-07-2015, 02:54 PM
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Measured or eyeballed?

My spacers are custom made 4mm thick.

My caliper spacers are 5/32" same ones on both sides.

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post #33 of 151 Old 07-09-2015, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
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Who do you think they buy it from?
Confirmed! =) I asked Kyle if his supplier was Dan Kyle racing, and he answered in the affirmative. =) The price would have been about the same, I expect - or, even, probably more expensive if I'd gotten it straight from LDH, as I'd have to pay exorbitant shipping and duties fees. I suspect his (Kyle's - that is, Windmill Motorsport's) commercial license nets him better prices on both those things.

A few weeks out still, I believe, right?

2006 Honda 919
2003 Honda RC51 (sold)
1989 Yamaha FZR400 w/ stock, YZF600, and 661cc engines (661 = YZF600 bottom end, FZR600 top end) (sold)
1986 Yamaha TZR250 (sold)
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post #34 of 151 Old 07-09-2015, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the pics and info. I'm sure glad it's readily available here, but I don't know if the six-spokers is something I'll do anytime soon. Maybe, if I find some great deals, we'll see. I'm also looking forward to seeing the bike in person with the low-mount - somehow, I believe that'll negate some of the "requirement" (drive, I should say...?) for the six-spokes - especially in the rear, where the three-spokes are most obvious.

2006 Honda 919
2003 Honda RC51 (sold)
1989 Yamaha FZR400 w/ stock, YZF600, and 661cc engines (661 = YZF600 bottom end, FZR600 top end) (sold)
1986 Yamaha TZR250 (sold)
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post #35 of 151 Old 07-27-2015, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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OK, probably time I update this. Both good and bad news. Let's go with the bad :

1. Ohlins HO322 is not available anymore. Was quite disappointed at that, as my budget was already a fair bit stretched to accommodate the 600$ U.S. requirement (remember, shipping to Canada, plus duties/taxes) for the Ohlins piece. Got a thread on that already, so won't belabor the point. Another "bad" is that I installed my G&J lines recently. I went for a very quick spin, but was still disappointed by the lack of initial bite. As my front end is basically off (see below), I can't see if it's just a bad bleed yet. I only had one day on it until we took the front end off.

2. Good news. First, dropped off Ditch's F4i forks to Windmill Motorsports, along with one of my 919 stockers. Kyle said it really shouldn't be a problem to make the Ohlins F4i ones match the 919 ones in terms of height, as we anticipated based on e-mail discussions and picture exchanges. But, here's another good bit of news :

LOL!

When I was at the shop, there were a couple of guys there, what I figure to be father and son, just chatting and so on.

This evening, I sent a text to Kyle (Windmill guy) asking if he has access to charts for all the Ohlins shocks - maybe one for another bike could be made to work...? - and I just offhandedly mentioned the F3 one as an example. He replies with the typical "Guess What?" - those guys in the shop I mentioned? They have an Ohlins F3 shock that they can't use because it doesn't have ride height adjustability, and they had brought it to Kyle today for him to have a look at it. I asked Dan about the probability of a sale - his initial estimations are that they are pretty high. =)

So, my saga may actually turn out pretty good after all. I'll keep you all posted.

Now - I'll have to buy frame sliders, a CBR900RR muffler, and a CBR900RR header. Also thinking about 17mm radial M/C + 32/30 calipers, or 19mm M/C + 34/32 calipers. We'll see. Just missed out on a Triumph Brembo new-in-box M/C - just couldn't find the bore in time to be sure. Sold for 122 U.S., which is a steal, I think. Anyway - still looking for a place to have all the packages shipped to, so I can pick them up from the States while I'm there on my road trip. Any takers from ND, SD, MN, IL, MI? =)

In other news : Dropped my front wheel off to a guy in Ottawa, while I'm here, who happens to be very well-known in the local vintage bike community for his wheel repairs. I'll get this sorted out once and for all.

2006 Honda 919
2003 Honda RC51 (sold)
1989 Yamaha FZR400 w/ stock, YZF600, and 661cc engines (661 = YZF600 bottom end, FZR600 top end) (sold)
1986 Yamaha TZR250 (sold)
1989 Yamaha RZ350 (sold)
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post #36 of 151 Old 07-28-2015, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverJS View Post
This evening, I sent a text to Kyle (Windmill guy) asking if he has access to charts for all the Ohlins shocks - maybe one for another bike could be made to work...? - and I just offhandedly mentioned the F3 one as an example. He replies with the typical "Guess What?" - those guys in the shop I mentioned? They have an Ohlins F3 shock that they can't use because it doesn't have ride height adjustability, and they had brought it to Kyle today for him to have a look at it. I asked Dan about the probability of a sale - his initial estimations are that they are pretty high. =)
I'd assume that at least one end of Ohlins will have a threaded on eye. Assuming so, surely there will be plenty of thread engagement length to allow the fitting of a shim washer.
If that can be done at both ends, you could probably create as much as 5 mm more eye to eye length.

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post #37 of 151 Old 07-28-2015, 07:02 AM
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I get my stuff shipped to a UPS store in Ogdensburg NY (less than 1 hour from Ottawa). They are known for that service and don't charge too much, if you don't wait too long to pick up your stuff . ($5 a week I think).

2005 Honda CB919F
2003 Honda CBR954RR (sold)
1990's Suzuki TS200 (sold)
1987 Kawasaki Ninja 750R (sold)
1984 Kawasaki GPz 550 (sold)
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post #38 of 151 Old 07-28-2015, 07:41 AM Thread Starter
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I thought about Ogs - I might actually extend the U.S. part of my trip to come back through there. And heck - I've never been south of the lakes!

MC, glad you're chiming in here, cuz I was going to ask you anyhow. I'm getting contradictory info on F3 shock length. Most of what I'm reading says the F3 shock is a tad *longer*, actually- I've read 5mm and 3/8", both somewhere on threads on this forum. I wonder why the people whose seat end up lower with the F3 swap (because I'm sure I have read that too) have it so....? Is there anywhere that points out with certainty the difference in the two shock lengths?

That also got me thinking - if Jim at Daugherty's can modify an OEM F4 shock, I'm sure an Ohlins one could be made to fit, no...?

2006 Honda 919
2003 Honda RC51 (sold)
1989 Yamaha FZR400 w/ stock, YZF600, and 661cc engines (661 = YZF600 bottom end, FZR600 top end) (sold)
1986 Yamaha TZR250 (sold)
1989 Yamaha RZ350 (sold)
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post #39 of 151 Old 07-28-2015, 07:44 AM Thread Starter
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Speaking of Jim, here's what he answered when I asked him more specifics as to what he does exactly :

What I do with the Showa units is completely gut the shock and replace with our BD Series valving piston and custom shim stacks that I've developed for them.

2006 Honda 919
2003 Honda RC51 (sold)
1989 Yamaha FZR400 w/ stock, YZF600, and 661cc engines (661 = YZF600 bottom end, FZR600 top end) (sold)
1986 Yamaha TZR250 (sold)
1989 Yamaha RZ350 (sold)
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post #40 of 151 Old 07-28-2015, 08:32 AM
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I do not know for sure but I fished about again and found a statement of a 292 mm eye to eye length for an OEM F3 shock.
My 05 OEM 919 was 285.
I'm not sure but I seem to recollect reading that the now out of production Ohlins was 289.
If someone simply took an F3 OEM shock and put it on a 919 as is, of course the rear ride height would drop, as the F3 shock is designed for a linked suspension so will be in the zone of only having 1/2 the spring rated needed for a 919.
IF the Ohlins really was a 289, I'd be tempted to try the F3s 292 as is, but be ready to possibly want to later shorten it a bit.
My assumption is that if it was shortened, it would be at the end that the spring is removed from, which could impact the ability to get a light enough preload.
This will also be a function of whatever spring free length you are able to select from.
My thinking is a 1200 # spring preloaded such that the Free Sag is in the 8-12 mm zone with a target of 10 for initial setup, which will result in a greater Rider Sag, but give you a good spring rate, with the longer shock netting you a higher than stock rear chassis height with Rider on bike. But likely more than desirable, but not by much, in which case shorten the shaft a few mm BUT when you do that, you sacrifice effective stroke length. See how one thing leads to another ?

I think your idea of hunting for a used length adjustable non piggyback Ohlins is a good one. Their ends can be changed, be it with their parts or by self crafted parts. I'd also look for Penskes also. Keep in mind that you'll be pathfinding on this one, so will left holding the bag re determining/gambling what can be made to fit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverJS View Post

MC, glad you're chiming in here, cuz I was going to ask you anyhow. I'm getting contradictory info on F3 shock length. Most of what I'm reading says the F3 shock is a tad *longer*, actually- I've read 5mm and 3/8", both somewhere on threads on this forum. I wonder why the people whose seat end up lower with the F3 swap (because I'm sure I have read that too) have it so....? Is there anywhere that points out with certainty the difference in the two shock lengths?

That also got me thinking - if Jim at Daugherty's can modify an OEM F4 shock, I'm sure an Ohlins one could be made to fit, no...?

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