Smoking 9'r - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 20 Old 09-02-2008, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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Smoking 9'r

When I left work today I pulled up to the intersection. The bike was already warmed up so I popped a little wheelie going through it. My co-worker, whom was behind me on his harley said that it shot out a little smoke. Is this any real concern? It doesn't do it any other time.

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post #2 of 20 Old 09-02-2008, 06:06 PM
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Most likely running way rich at that rpm. What color was smoke? White for coolant, blue/black for oil, black/gray for excessive fuel.

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post #3 of 20 Old 09-02-2008, 06:16 PM
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probably carbon buildup from lugging the engine. I wouldn't worry unless there was a constant condition under which you saw smoke.

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post #4 of 20 Old 09-02-2008, 06:25 PM
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It runs rich and will puff some. Seen a few do that.

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post #5 of 20 Old 09-02-2008, 06:53 PM
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My cousin has a 919, and we were out on a ride one day when he really got on it. His 919 put out a small puff of smoke as well. Most likely just carbon build up as he just got back from a trip to the east coast.

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post #6 of 20 Old 09-02-2008, 08:19 PM
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more than likely just running rich. Mine and my friends both do the same thing.

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post #7 of 20 Old 09-03-2008, 03:50 AM Thread Starter
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Kewl, thanx. I will ask my co-worker what color it was this morning. I am using the pcIII w/the sato2 map and Yoshi's. I also commute 46 miles a day and have 28k+ miles on her. And I only use premium gas these days.

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post #8 of 20 Old 09-03-2008, 12:55 PM
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what's your oil level? if it's high, wheelying might have allowed some to be introduced into the combustion equation.

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post #9 of 20 Old 09-03-2008, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlb63 View Post
Kewl, thanx. I will ask my co-worker what color it was this morning. I am using the pcIII w/the sato2 map and Yoshi's. I also commute 46 miles a day and have 28k+ miles on her. And I only use premium gas these days.
Go back to running Rerular 87 octane. Your bike will thank you and reward you with better performance.

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post #10 of 20 Old 09-03-2008, 02:55 PM
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If it was stock, 87 would do fine.

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post #11 of 20 Old 09-03-2008, 03:12 PM
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sturmmann, how do you feel cans and a pcIII are affected by octane?

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post #12 of 20 Old 09-03-2008, 03:33 PM
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Depends on the tune and climate. Colder areas can do well with lower octane. Hotter areas needs higher octane. All in the quest to prevent pre-ignition.

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post #13 of 20 Old 09-04-2008, 01:16 PM
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i contend that a) pcIII and cans ARE basically stock and b) they don't affect compression, and they don't call for more octane. in other words, in regards to octane, that is a stock bike.

also, when combustion process equals thousands of degrees, i question whether another 25 degrees of ambient temperature will make a ping.

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post #14 of 20 Old 09-04-2008, 01:38 PM
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It's only a concern if you get a little smoke followed by internal engine fragments.

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post #15 of 20 Old 09-04-2008, 03:05 PM
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There are other factors. Ambient air to cool things down. Whether water cooled or air cooled. Then the intake air temp. Even after the thousand degree combustion, ambient air can only cool the radiator/block so much. That's why colder area always has better performance overall. Then there is altitude for density of air.

Socal is quite warm right now but I always tune the engine in the winter so it has best lean power. When summer comes around, it would richen up a bit on its own. Hot and less dense intake air. Octane depends on your area and the engines state of tune. If ping use higher octane, if not they stay. All minor pings can't even be heard. The audible knocking already means that the ping is more severe.

Ping can also be detected on a dyno graph. The quick jagged lines will show the pinging. I'm sure everybody here knows this.

PC3 and Can is not stock. Cans augment the exhaust flow so the engine can work faster. But if you want to talk about compression then it is still stock. The air flow however is not. More air more gas...in this case less gas from PC3 for optimal power. Then octane is dependent on other variables.

People will use whatever octane is most comfortable for them. Their beliefs and experiences of what is best. So whether stock or not, tuned or not tuned, YMMV. Everybody's happy

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post #16 of 20 Old 09-04-2008, 03:57 PM
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sturmmann, i disagree with your interpretation of whether or not cans and a pcIII affect octane appetite. yes, i can allow that one can present theory why it MAY, but i do not believe that folks generally have to adjust octane for cans and a pcIII, especially if mapped correctly.

when you say, "i always tune the engine in the winter" i wonder what you tune? you dyno test and remap your pc? if so, isn't the dyno room always about the same temperature year round? surely you're not saying that replacing spark plugs and air filter is season dependent?

what you say doesn't jive with what i 'know' about internal combustion.
maybe we agree on scramjets ?

i don't "get" your perspective.

also, the main benefit from colder air is that it is more oxygen rich. and of course, an internal combustion engine's main fuel is oxygen. more oxygen means more power. cold air (and sea level air) have more oxygen.

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post #17 of 20 Old 09-04-2008, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturmmann View Post

Socal is quite warm right now but I always tune the engine in the winter so it has best lean power. When summer comes around, it would richen up a bit on its own. Hot and less dense intake air. Octane depends on your area and the engines state of tune. If ping use higher octane, if not they stay. All minor pings can't even be heard. The audible knocking already means that the ping is more severe.
I don't mean this in a bad way Sturmman, but if the above theory is how you are tuning your bikes , racecars, ect., then you would never be competitive at the professional level.

Again, I mean this in the best possible way, but you sound a little like some of the propeller heads I know over at Cal-Tech & JPL.

I look foreward to meeting you on one of Rob Tharalsons "Periodic Rides".

HBR

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post #18 of 20 Old 09-04-2008, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
sturmmann, i disagree with your interpretation of whether or not cans and a pcIII affect octane appetite. yes, i can allow that one can present theory why it MAY, but i do not believe that folks generally have to adjust octane for cans and a pcIII, especially if mapped correctly.

when you say, "i always tune the engine in the winter" i wonder what you tune? you dyno test and remap your pc? if so, isn't the dyno room always about the same temperature year round? surely you're not saying that replacing spark plugs and air filter is season dependent?

what you say doesn't jive with what i 'know' about internal combustion.
maybe we agree on scramjets ?

i don't "get" your perspective.

also, the main benefit from colder air is that it is more oxygen rich. and of course, an internal combustion engine's main fuel is oxygen. more oxygen means more power. cold air (and sea level air) have more oxygen.
Hey Bucky, don't forget the importance of Relative Humidity and Barometric pressure in relationship to overall air temps.
Not correcting you (after all, you haul A$$!), I'm just saying.

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post #19 of 20 Old 09-04-2008, 05:13 PM
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here we go again





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post #20 of 20 Old 09-04-2008, 06:39 PM
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I enjoy the discussion but sorry for jumbling all over. I street tune all the vehicles because I have a wideband. So winter tuning is around 50F average out. Summer is 90F average.

What I'm getting at for octane is the window of margin for advancing ignition timing and higher compression. Though none of that is apparent right now.

The cans could be tuned on any fuel honestly. So whether it's 87 or 91, it will still make optimum power not counting ignition timing. Since the 919 comes rich from factory, 87 can be used because of the already rich mixture. It would be difficult but not impossible to have it knock audibly. When lean tuning any vehicle along with advancing the timing, higher octane allows more ignition advance compared to lower octane. That is, before running into detonation.

An engine's state of tune and A/F selection is dependent on the competition type. Drag racing, road racing, circle/oval track, etc. all have different tunes. I only ride/drive on the street so the tune I use is only a medium compared to track vehicles. I like to go for 13.5:1 for N/A cars and 12.5:1 for turbo cars. N/A moto I enjoy 13.0:1 just a bit leaner than what most people would do.

My discussion is not broad...I'm only talking about what I'm using/doing for street setups; nothing even close to being competitive. If none of this is even correct or feasibly to use. Then I'm an idiot who built and tune engines drastically wrong.

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