Seized front sprocket bolt - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 39 Old 04-11-2016, 10:05 PM Thread Starter
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Seized front sprocket bolt

Hi guys,
Long timer lurker, first time posting here. Went to change my chain and sprockets today; left the rear sprocket and chain on, had my fiance engage the rear brake, sprayed it down with wd40, and put the bike in first(won't do this again as I heard it's bad for the transmission). Long story short, the bolt didn't budge at all. I used as much force as I could and literally nothing, I even tried tightening it and then loosening it, the thing doesn't want to budge.

I'm thinking about getting an impact driver, but my concern is:
1. The bolt doesn't move and the driver strips the bolt.
2. The bolt head breaks off with all the torque.

Should I go with the driver and some pb blaster? I know a breaker bar might work, but it seems a driver would be just as likely to work, plus it gives a reason to get an impact driver

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post #2 of 39 Old 04-11-2016, 10:33 PM
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First gear and a broomstick thru the rear wheel to stop it from turning, hit it with an impact.

Spoiler:

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post #3 of 39 Old 04-11-2016, 11:05 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickard919 View Post
First gear and a broomstick thru the rear wheel to stop it from turning, hit it with an impact.
That was my thought too, except for putting it in gear. I tried that today and it kept the rear wheel from moving but isn't putting that much force on your transmission a bit risky?

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post #4 of 39 Old 04-12-2016, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrrundle View Post
That was my thought too, except for putting it in gear. I tried that today and it kept the rear wheel from moving but isn't putting that much force on your transmission a bit risky?
I usually use a higher gear (like 5th) with the thought that the torque is less... not sure if that's accurate or not... you need a lot of force on it, just a regular wrench isn't going to do it... a breaker bar should, but an impact is a good tool to have and should work well for you.

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post #5 of 39 Old 04-12-2016, 07:53 AM
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If the bike is still rideable take to a shop, tire shop or anything of the sort, have them hit it with their impact gun to knock it loose, then tighten it back up to proper spec. Then when you get home it will be easy as can be.


Most will do it at no cost at all as well.

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post #6 of 39 Old 04-12-2016, 09:19 AM
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I hit those with an impact gun, and it spins them off in about half a second.

I put them back on the same way...

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post #7 of 39 Old 04-12-2016, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickard919 View Post
First gear and a broomstick thru the rear wheel to stop it from turning, hit it with an impact.
I use this method but with the bike in neutral and use a wrench. Still need a breaker bar usually. I started doing this before I had an impact wrench. May try that if my current chain and sprockets ever wear out.

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post #8 of 39 Old 04-12-2016, 10:19 AM
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Hitting it with an impact turns it so fast that in most cases you can just hold the rear wheel still with your other hand. You rarely have to immobilize it completely unless you have a REALLY REALLY seized one like this which is just absolutely fuckin ridiculous...

This is a Snap-On 1/2 impact at 130psi not even phasing this nut




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post #9 of 39 Old 04-12-2016, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
Hitting it with an impact turns it so fast that in most cases you can just hold the rear wheel still with your other hand. You rarely have to immobilize it completely unless you have a REALLY REALLY seized one like this which is just absolutely fuckin ridiculous...

This is a Snap-On 1/2 impact at 130psi not even phasing this nut
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYSAndFiYAA



Video is marked as private

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post #10 of 39 Old 04-12-2016, 11:23 AM
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working now?

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post #11 of 39 Old 04-12-2016, 01:11 PM
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Works for me.

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post #12 of 39 Old 04-12-2016, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
working now?
Yeah that's when you just get the torch and cut the fucker off, then light the whole thing on fire and claim insurance.
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post #13 of 39 Old 04-13-2016, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
working now?
yep

Love is the feeling you get when you like something as much as your motorcycle - Hunter S. Thompson
I just mı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨ade you wipe your screen.
-2009 Suzuki GSX-R 750 Race Bike
-2007 Honda 919
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-1983 KZ 440 (Sold)
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post #14 of 39 Old 04-13-2016, 09:24 AM
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This is all bad advice. Here's what you should do:

Get a long breaker bar with the correct size socket.
Remove front sprocket cover.
Accelerate to somewhere upwards of 100 mph.
Apply extreme amount of front brake until you perform a stoppie.
At this point, with the rear wheel in the air, whip your butt around while shifting into neutral.
You are now travelling backwards. Reach down and pop the socket on the front sprocket bolthead. The breaker bar will make contact with the pavement .... and wallah ... the bolt will break loose.
Apply mad amounts of front brake again until you come to a stop.


Let me know if you need help on how to tighten it back up.

You're welcome.
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post #15 of 39 Old 04-13-2016, 09:34 AM
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LOL!

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post #16 of 39 Old 04-13-2016, 09:52 AM
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^that checks out

Love is the feeling you get when you like something as much as your motorcycle - Hunter S. Thompson
I just mı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨ade you wipe your screen.
-2009 Suzuki GSX-R 750 Race Bike
-2007 Honda 919
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post #17 of 39 Old 04-13-2016, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HondaJim View Post
This is all bad advice. Here's what you should do:

Get a long breaker bar with the correct size socket.
Remove front sprocket cover.
Accelerate to somewhere upwards of 100 mph.
Apply extreme amount of front brake until you perform a stoppie.
At this point, with the rear wheel in the air, whip your butt around while shifting into neutral.
You are now travelling backwards. Reach down and pop the socket on the front sprocket bolthead. The breaker bar will make contact with the pavement .... and wallah ... the bolt will break loose.
Apply mad amounts of front brake again until you come to a stop.


Let me know if you need help on how to tighten it back up.

You're welcome.
Hahaha.....Just reverse the procedure to tighten it back up. Rob has a spreadsheet somewhere of torque vs speed vs pavement type.
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post #18 of 39 Old 04-13-2016, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marylandmike View Post

Hahaha.....Just reverse the procedure to tighten it back up. Rob has a spreadsheet somewhere of torque vs speed vs pavement type.
Don't forget that it likely includes ambient temperature as well as pavement temperatures along with coefficients accounting for the different ranges between the two temperatures.

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post #19 of 39 Old 04-13-2016, 09:36 PM Thread Starter
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Update:
After spraying the bolt with PB throughout the day, bike in first gear, broomstick in the back, fiancé on the brake, and now armed with my fancy new impact driver and a big grin on my face (never had a driver before and the thing is damn cool) the bolt didn't budge.

My next step will be to use a fancy new breaker bar that I will acquire tomorrow and if that doesn't work I may be forced to use the 100+ stoppie method.

I would like to avoid using a torch as there is an oil seal from my understanding so it seems risky. Has anyone taken a torch to theirs before?

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post #20 of 39 Old 04-13-2016, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrrundle View Post
Update:
After spraying the bolt with PB throughout the day, bike in first gear, broomstick in the back, fiancé on the brake, and now armed with my fancy new impact driver and a big grin on my face (never had a driver before and the thing is damn cool) the bolt didn't budge.

My next step will be to use a fancy new breaker bar that I will acquire tomorrow and if that doesn't work I may be forced to use the 100+ stoppie method.

I would like to avoid using a torch as there is an oil seal from my understanding so it seems risky. Has anyone taken a torch to theirs before?
You had it in loosen mode right...not tighten mode...just checking

I may not have a lot to say but it doesn't mean I don't listen.
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post #21 of 39 Old 04-13-2016, 11:15 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by velodesign View Post
You had it in loosen mode right...not tighten mode...just checking
I had it in full on NASCAR pit crew mode. After trying a few times to loosen the bolt I did try to tighten it in hopes of getting some movement out of it but the thing didn't budge.

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post #22 of 39 Old 04-14-2016, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrrundle View Post
Update:
After spraying the bolt with PB throughout the day, bike in first gear, broomstick in the back, fiancé on the brake, and now armed with my fancy new impact driver and a big grin on my face (never had a driver before and the thing is damn cool) the bolt didn't budge.
Pneumatic driver or cordless?

Love is the feeling you get when you like something as much as your motorcycle - Hunter S. Thompson
I just mı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨ade you wipe your screen.
-2009 Suzuki GSX-R 750 Race Bike
-2007 Honda 919
-1995 Nighthawk 750 (Tboned)
-1983 KZ 440 (Sold)
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post #23 of 39 Old 04-14-2016, 09:08 AM
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Be careful using the breaker bar. Before, you were just applying torque around the nut that was capped by your ability to hold onto the impact driver on a short lever arm. The force was also being applied over very short pulses. When you switch to the breaker bar, there's going to be a big amplification of the force you're applying from the dramatically increased lever arm and that force won't just be rotational. It'll also be constantly applied and ramp up to the peak torque rather than constant pulses. Just start of slow and work your way down the breaker bar to progressively apply more force.

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post #24 of 39 Old 04-14-2016, 09:31 AM
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I'm just wondering how the gears like being hammered with a pneumatic impact driver.

I've used the old "broomstick through the wheel with wife standing on the brake" trick with a breaker bar and a long cheater pipe. Nice and slow... easy peasy. I've loosened hub nuts on 4X4's with the same setup. With a 4 foot cheater pipe (what I had laying around), I can easily generate 600 lb-ft of torque.

If you don't have a pipe, you can use the handle off of a hydraulic jack.

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post #25 of 39 Old 04-14-2016, 10:47 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badmoon692008 View Post
Pneumatic driver or cordless?
I went with cordless which in hindsight maybe I should have spent the extra money on pneumatic.

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post #26 of 39 Old 04-14-2016, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the advice on the breaker bar. I also thought about starting the bike letting it run and warm everything up then spray the bolt with freeze off. This would warm up the surrounding area expanding it then spraying the bolt with freeze off might give me enough space for the bolt to move.

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post #27 of 39 Old 04-14-2016, 12:10 PM
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Manual impact is less expensive than battery or pneumatic, even if you include the price of the hammer. Which part of the country are you in? Maybe there's a WTer that's a neighbor.

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post #28 of 39 Old 04-14-2016, 01:17 PM
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Around here I bought an electric impact for about $50 that does 220 foot lbs. always works.

Spoiler:

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post #29 of 39 Old 04-14-2016, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrrundle View Post
I went with cordless which in hindsight maybe I should have spent the extra money on pneumatic.
I have a cordless and love it for most of what I use it for, but it's definitely lacking the grunt that a good pneumatic would have. I would care to bet that if you found someone with a nice pneumatic one it would zip right off.

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I just mı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨ade you wipe your screen.
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post #30 of 39 Old 04-14-2016, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
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Update:
Today I refused to be defeated, I would not leave my garage until I was victorious and guess what? I'm not in my garage. I showed that little bastard who's boss. I picked up a 24 inch breaker bar today, let my bike run for about 10 minutes, and gave it all my might (within reason; didn't want to strip it) and it finally popped loose. Thanks everyone for all the tips! Now I can finally change my chain and sprockets.

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post #31 of 39 Old 04-14-2016, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrrundle View Post
Update:
Today I refused to be defeated, I would not leave my garage until I was victorious and guess what? I'm not in my garage. I showed that little bastard who's boss. I picked up a 24 inch breaker bar today, let my bike run for about 10 minutes, and gave it all my might (within reason; didn't want to strip it) and it finally popped loose. Thanks everyone for all the tips! Now I can finally change my chain and sprockets.
Great job not breaking off that little bastard! Did it look like the bolt had been off before? or if there was evidence of any thread locker from previous owner? (like a white powdery residue on the threads?)
It may be worth while replacing that bolt. You know it has seen some really high torque levels and you don't want it to break in the future as a result.

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post #32 of 39 Old 04-14-2016, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mark919 View Post
Great job not breaking off that little bastard! Did it look like the bolt had been off before? or if there was evidence of any thread locker from previous owner? (like a white powdery residue on the threads?) It may be worth while replacing that bolt. You know it has seen some really high torque levels and you don't want it to break in the future as a result.
It has definitely been off before. I actually changed the chain and sprockets maybe a year ago, but I went with cheap stuff at the time so I figured it was time to upgrade everything. I know I put it back on with pneumatic drive, but that wouldn't have made it so difficult to remove. The guy I bought it from previously left it out in the weather a lot so I think the bolt should have been replaced, but it's just one of those things you don't really think about until you run into an issue like this.

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post #33 of 39 Old 04-14-2016, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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I'm thinking it might be time to go through and replace some of the more tired looking bolts so this doesn't happen again. On a positive note l got to pick up a few new tools to add to the collection.

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post #34 of 39 Old 04-14-2016, 08:57 PM
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Would it be worth while to put some anti-sieze goop on it?

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post #35 of 39 Old 04-15-2016, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crakerjac View Post
Would it be worth while to put some anti-sieze goop on it?
I don't know if I'd want whats basically a lubricant on the threads of the bolt holding my sprocket on....

Love is the feeling you get when you like something as much as your motorcycle - Hunter S. Thompson
I just mı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨ade you wipe your screen.
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-2007 Honda 919
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post #36 of 39 Old 04-15-2016, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badmoon692008 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by crakerjac View Post
Would it be worth while to put some anti-sieze goop on it?
I don't know if I'd want whats basically a lubricant on the threads of the bolt holding my sprocket on....
Well you put that stuff on your caliper bolts which hold your calipers to your forks...

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post #37 of 39 Old 04-15-2016, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crakerjac View Post
Well you put that stuff on your caliper bolts which hold your calipers to your forks...
You might. I don't.

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post #38 of 39 Old 04-15-2016, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crakerjac View Post
Well you put that stuff on your caliper bolts which hold your calipers to your forks...
If we're talking about the same thing, then I would lube the part that the caliper slides on, but not the threads...

Love is the feeling you get when you like something as much as your motorcycle - Hunter S. Thompson
I just mı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨ade you wipe your screen.
-2009 Suzuki GSX-R 750 Race Bike
-2007 Honda 919
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-1983 KZ 440 (Sold)
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post #39 of 39 Old 04-16-2016, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HondaJim View Post
This is all bad advice. Here's what you should do:

Get a long breaker bar with the correct size socket.
Remove front sprocket cover.
Accelerate to somewhere upwards of 100 mph.
Apply extreme amount of front brake until you perform a stoppie.
At this point, with the rear wheel in the air, whip your butt around while shifting into neutral.
You are now travelling backwards. Reach down and pop the socket on the front sprocket bolthead. The breaker bar will make contact with the pavement .... and wallah ... the bolt will break loose.
Apply mad amounts of front brake again until you come to a stop.


Let me know if you need help on how to tighten it back up.

You're welcome.
Hey Jim,

I wanna see your demo video of this procedure. I hope it shows both loosening and tightening.

"Keep on 9-in"

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