Searching for rear view camera experience / ideas - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 11 Old 04-16-2016, 12:55 AM Thread Starter
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Searching for rear view camera experience / ideas

Have converted to dual headlights (Soooo much better than stock 919!), switched to small front LED turn signals and am fabricating my own windscreen under which I want to mount a weatherproof monitor and install a rear view daylight/night camera system. Why? Because I think that even though glancing over at standard mirrors does not take your vision of the road much, I want to experiment and see if a screen that you can see while looking straight ahead may be of benefit. I plan to keep a token mirror mounted as unobtrusively as possible as per Texass law. Currently, I removed the regular mirrors and have bar ends mounted but although I see better in my blind spots it does not give that good a rear view. And you definitely are taking your eye more off the road to use them.

There are some cheep *** kits out there but I don't trust them. I don't mind spending a couple Benjamins for a good camera [actually, because of field of view, I may mount two camera to get the widest coverage and 'see' cars in my left and right blind spots just like bar mounted mirrors show] and a really good monitor that can be seen in daylight. There are some automotive rear view 'mirror replacement' units that have a dual screen for two camera inputs so perhaps that is a possibility. ( ex: Crimestopper SV-9153 (sv9153) 4.3" OEM Replacement-Style Rear View Mirror Monitor )

From my research you want +- 120 degrees of view. But 120 degree cameras introduce a lot of distortion, not something we want. But two 60 degree cameras set so the each ones inside field of view edge appears to merge with the other on the double screen monitor to produce 'one' view. ( lots of sites for info but this one is concise: What Is View Angle and What View Angle Should I Look for When Buying a Rear View Camera? | eBay )

There is a British company that sells a VERY expensive kit but surely we can do better here. The equipment has gotten a lot better in the last couple of years so it may be practical, increase safety (and of course, be cool). Anybody already done this? I searched Wristtwisters and other sites and found some mentions back in 2007 or so but nothing 'real'.

Comments and ideas?

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post #2 of 11 Old 04-16-2016, 12:32 PM
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With how much work/thought you're putting into this, I think you're better off practicing with having your head on a swivel. It's truly not hard and is a good skill to have. It's extremely important to be aware of your surroundings and there is no substitute for your own eyes.

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post #3 of 11 Old 04-16-2016, 02:19 PM
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It is illegal in Texas to have a monitor in view of the driver while the vehicle is in motion.

if you love your motorcycle, set it free.. if it comes back and hits you.. you highsided
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post #4 of 11 Old 04-16-2016, 05:15 PM Thread Starter
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Hm. Yes, I was aware that this rule applies to monitors showing movies, etc that might distract the driver but monitor screens showing vehicle information (Environmental, radio, engine info or GPS, etc) and safety (like rear view mirror supplemental devices) were OK. Local DPS office told me that when I called about considering this. Perhaps a call to the state offices might be in order because the local office might be the usual ignorant bureaucrats.
In fact, I wonder how the state considers these vehicles with monitor screens:
  1. Ford's highly touted all-aluminum 2015 F-150 truck will also feature four cameras ó on the front grille, rear bumper and side mirrors ó for better maneuverability, with images transmitted to an 8-inch touchscreen in-dash display.
  2. At 2014 auto shows, Land Rover made a splash with a concept off-road vehicle with a hood-mounted camera that captures pictures of upcoming terrain and feeds them to a head-up display at the bottom of the windshield to create a 3-D map.
  3. Nissan offers an around-view monitoring system on certain 2014 Pathfinder, Quest, Rogue and Versa Note models. Also at 2014 auto shows, Nissan also showed a concept version of the Rogue with a rearview "smart" mirror, an LCD display
  4. Tesla is experimenting with replacing sideview mirrors with cameras to improve vehicles' aerodynamics and fuel efficiency.
My new Lincoln also has an amazing computer built into it with dash screen that gives me full internet access and controls/shows me all vehicle data. That's actually what gave me the idea for the bike mod. You are probably right and I thank you for the input and will do further research but then I will have to see what it takes to get some type of test or experimental exemption. Will not know till I try because in nobody tried we would still live in caves.

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post #5 of 11 Old 04-16-2016, 09:11 PM
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1. I do not know but I really wish people would stop relying on technology for safety. Pay the !%^& attention, my life depends on it. Looking back is a hell of a lot better than looking at an 8" screen with the output from a camera with a focal length of HAHAHAHA you expect to see a motorcycle with that?
2. off-road vehicle, and concept.
3. I'm willing to bet this is only enabled at less than 10mph, i.e. parking situations.
4. replacing a side mirror isn't putting a monitor inside the vehicle...

if you love your motorcycle, set it free.. if it comes back and hits you.. you highsided
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post #6 of 11 Old 04-16-2016, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beefsalad View Post
1. I do not know but I really wish people would stop relying on technology for safety. Pay the !%^& attention, my life depends on it. Looking back is a hell of a lot better than looking at an 8" screen with the output from a camera with a focal length of HAHAHAHA you expect to see a motorcycle with that?
2. off-road vehicle, and concept.
3. I'm willing to bet this is only enabled at less than 10mph, i.e. parking situations.
4. replacing a side mirror isn't putting a monitor inside the vehicle...
Please, flame off. Lets have a friendly debate.
We rely on technology for safety every day, sometimes things being done by others for us. Every time I fly I am relying on the pilot to use the proper safety procedures and equipment. I have to wear a seat belt in my car which is technology for (attempting) safety. The water I drink from the pipes is treated using knowledge and technology for safety. My hot water heater has a safety relief valve which is technology that keeps it from blowing up and killing.

And most of all, I rely on the technology that's engineered into my bike tires to help me keep the rubber on the road. Back when I started riding in 1973 tires sucked long green ones. Technology made them safer. Another technology area is riding apparel. Back then the best I had was linesmen boots, a surplus bomber jacket and a crappy designed/fitting helmet. Today I wear a Tour Master mesh armored jacket, armored gloves and a much, much better top tier helmet. Technology improved safety. If you use it. I also use a Garmin Virb camera ALWAYS so that if I have any interaction with the cops there is a record for my safety.

So, eventually, yes, every new vehicle will be engineered by having its mirrors removed and replaced with cameras (which show on a split screen inside) because mirrors just cause a major amount of drag on a car, truck or semi and by reducing that drag...mileage will be increased. Bank on it.

Maybe today's equipment is not ready, but you have to start somewhere testing and improving.

And yes, I do have my head on a swivel. But I have also read DOT accident reports that mention 'rider looked away from road path and...pick multiple choice crash result." MSF class mentions that there is a tendency to steer where you look and when you look at a mirror you are not looking at the road. We have all seen a rider drift in his lane as he looked over at his mirrors. I personally have had something happen in front of me that I just barely caught in my peripheral vision as I glanced to the side for a split second at my mirror. Experience, skill, reflexes and a dump truck full of luck kept me safe and alive but it could have been that golden BB.

Hey, I've got a FLIR on my Hunter 33 sailboat for night vision, once you've used that technology you sure don't want to go back to the human Mark 1 eyeball in the night on a moonless night on the ocean. [Along with radios, radar and GPS hooked into my autopilot, all to make sailing safer using technology]
And yes, it can fail, that's why I have backups.

Technology and progress. Its great!

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post #7 of 11 Old 04-17-2016, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windrider919 View Post
My new Lincoln also has an amazing computer built into it with dash screen that gives me full internet access and controls/shows me all vehicle data.
That's just fine as long as all it is used for is for the vehicle info, not "full internet access". The average driver is bad enough at paying attention without having to deal with YouTube cat videos playing right in plain sight. Of course when buying a car so equipped there is an extra disclaimer sheet you have to sign absolving the manufacturer from any responsibility for an accident caused by inattention or distraction by features like this. Small consolation when you kill someone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
With how much work/thought you're putting into this, I think you're better off practicing with having your head on a swivel. It's truly not hard and is a good skill to have. It's extremely important to be aware of your surroundings and there is no substitute for your own eyes.
Up to a point I tend to agree, but the "It goes where you look." mantra is also valid and takes considerable experience to prevent. As for me, the one tiny, distorted, and overtinted bullet mirror on the left side that satisfies legal requirements is just fine as I always head check whenever necessary, and "It goes where you tell it to go." holds sway, not "It goes where you look.".

That said, I like the idea of a pair of 120 degree night vision rear view cameras mounted on each side overlapping to the rear feeding a dual screen display mounted within the riders peripheral vision. All it does is provide information to the rider without having to look away from what is ahead of you, and when maneuvering to one side reinforced by a quick head check. Just remember the saying "Trust, but verify!"

On to practicalities. While there are plenty of weather sealed 120 - 135 DOV night vision cameras available, TFT LCD dual input displays that are weatherproof are damned hard to find, and when you do are extremely expensive. The one you listed in the first post looks good, but sealing it against moisture incursion would be a real problem. A possible solution would be to remove it from the original enclosure, fabricate a new enclosure that can be sealed, mounting the display in it, and before sealing it flood with electronic grade Propylene Glycol (PG) coolant. It is 99.8% light transmissive, also called water clear, has dielectric properties compatible with high impedance / frequency electronics, in the amount you would need would cost very little, and would insure that any moisture that did get in (you have to plan for it!) is completely miscible with the PG and would not cause corrosion or signal degradation.

Keep at this -- it sounds like it is worth pursuing.

Rob

If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
------- Rob --------
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post #8 of 11 Old 04-17-2016, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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FYI: the links I provided are NOT what I am considering but instead were just ones I found in a quick search so you guys could see the basic concept. Bad example and I should have spent more time looking up quality hardware. My bad. I actually am looking at a weatherproof screen from Garmin like on my boat but have not found out how possible to do the dual camera/split screen. Hence my question to the forum to see if anybody else was considering or had experience with an actual setup

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post #9 of 11 Old 04-17-2016, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windrider919 View Post
Please, flame off. Lets have a friendly debate.
We rely on technology for safety every day, sometimes things being done by others for us. Every time I fly I am relying on the pilot to use the proper safety procedures and equipment. I have to wear a seat belt in my car which is technology for (attempting) safety. The water I drink from the pipes is treated using knowledge and technology for safety. My hot water heater has a safety relief valve which is technology that keeps it from blowing up and killing.

And most of all, I rely on the technology that's engineered into my bike tires to help me keep the rubber on the road. Back when I started riding in 1973 tires sucked long green ones. Technology made them safer. Another technology area is riding apparel. Back then the best I had was linesmen boots, a surplus bomber jacket and a crappy designed/fitting helmet. Today I wear a Tour Master mesh armored jacket, armored gloves and a much, much better top tier helmet. Technology improved safety. If you use it. I also use a Garmin Virb camera ALWAYS so that if I have any interaction with the cops there is a record for my safety.

So, eventually, yes, every new vehicle will be engineered by having its mirrors removed and replaced with cameras (which show on a split screen inside) because mirrors just cause a major amount of drag on a car, truck or semi and by reducing that drag...mileage will be increased. Bank on it.

Maybe today's equipment is not ready, but you have to start somewhere testing and improving.

And yes, I do have my head on a swivel. But I have also read DOT accident reports that mention 'rider looked away from road path and...pick multiple choice crash result." MSF class mentions that there is a tendency to steer where you look and when you look at a mirror you are not looking at the road. We have all seen a rider drift in his lane as he looked over at his mirrors. I personally have had something happen in front of me that I just barely caught in my peripheral vision as I glanced to the side for a split second at my mirror. Experience, skill, reflexes and a dump truck full of luck kept me safe and alive but it could have been that golden BB.

Hey, I've got a FLIR on my Hunter 33 sailboat for night vision, once you've used that technology you sure don't want to go back to the human Mark 1 eyeball in the night on a moonless night on the ocean. [Along with radios, radar and GPS hooked into my autopilot, all to make sailing safer using technology]
And yes, it can fail, that's why I have backups.

Technology and progress. Its great!
My flames are well more than 4 terse lines.

Please don't go on about drinking water safety when the topic is cameras and monitors on highway vehicles and clueless cagers driving like shit.

if you love your motorcycle, set it free.. if it comes back and hits you.. you highsided
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post #10 of 11 Old 04-17-2016, 06:22 PM
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To each his own. I'm gonna do what I want to my bike. They should be allowed to do what he/she wants as well.

I think it's a cool idea. I'd never do it to mine, but it sounds like something that can possibly become part of a motorcycles standard safety features in the future. As technology progresses and all that blah blah blah.

As a side note- some of the new Honda automobiles have built in cameras on the outside mirrors and when you turn the blinker on to change lanes, the screen shows a complete view of the lane next to you, removing the whole blind spot thing. They call it Lane-Watch. At first I didn't trust it for shit, cuz you can't really tell how fast a vehicle is coming up on you. But the mirror is there too of course and after a few tries I kinda started to like it.

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post #11 of 11 Old 04-18-2016, 05:42 PM
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My shop installs a ton of backup cameras on cars, and I've been wanting to do the same on my bikes both for increased rear vision (it really would make a huge difference), as well as to eliminate the bulky side view mirrors. Two 120deg cameras with a dual 4.3in mirror screen should be ideal. I think you'll find once you try this, it will be so far superior to stock mirrors, you'll wonder how you ever rode without them. Two problems I can't get around:

- No matter how good the visibility provided by the new system, some Gomer is still going to give you a ticket...just cause he can. You don't seem to mind keeping small mirrors. Not a bad idea, but I'd still love to get rid of them completely.

- Finding a monitor with adjustable day/night settings. Every monitor I've seen is going to be too dim to be of much use in bright sunlight, and far too bright at night. They are made to be used inside a car (sheltered from direct sunlight), and only activate when you put the car in reverse. Even with an automatic dimmer, you probably wouldn't want to drive around with one on all the time at night.

I wish you luck!

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