Scare, changes, "advice" - Wrist Twisters
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 32 Old 04-23-2009, 11:02 PM Thread Starter
Sike
 
sike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,620
Rep Power: 1
 
Scare, changes, "advice"

This might get long. I have been doing martial arts almost as long as I have been riding. Over the years, I've done a lot of damage to my body. My knees have been going bad for many years, and this past winter things got really bad. To the point of struggling to walk. Also, the past two years, after trackdays I have struggled greatly to walk (the pain in my knees is extreme after a day of switching from side to side on the bike). So, the docs sent me to physical therapy (which helped for the first time). Also, the therapist highly recommended riding bicycles. So, I got a really cool carbon fiber bicycle and I have been riding on a trainer all the time and the trials on the weekends, and things are getting better. However, I'm still struggling to ride my 10 for longer distances. It will be interesting to see this summer if I can take multiple day rides.

So, anybody out there struggling with bum knees? Anyone using a bike to heal bum knees? The problem is my kneecaps are falling off to the sides (aka runners knees, even though I'm not a runner). I have refused NSAIDS, because I had really bad luck with them in the past, and would rather have the knee pain than the internal bleeding.

Thoughts?

Thanks, Steve

sike is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 32 Old 04-23-2009, 11:23 PM
Tribunus Laticlavius
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 7,109
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by sike View Post
So, I got a really cool carbon fiber bicycle and I have been riding on a trainer all the time and the trials on the weekends, and things are getting better. However, I'm still struggling to ride my 10 for longer distances. It will be interesting to see this summer if I can take multiple day rides.

So, anybody out there struggling with bum knees? Anyone using a bike to heal bum knees? The problem is my kneecaps are falling off to the sides (aka runners knees, even though I'm not a runner). I have refused NSAIDS, because I had really bad luck with them in the past, and would rather have the knee pain than the internal bleeding.
A carbon bike on a trainer... Does that make the workouts faster? After my motorcycle fall (without pants! ) my banged up knee benefitted from cycling therapy. Cycling properly will strengthen you knees: warmup, stretching, not over gearing/torquing, in the cold wearing tights and not riding 100ml a day with fully loaded touring packs in the mountains. I have a triple ring on my road bike to survive up steep grades. I refuse NSAIDS. Some LIGHT gym work could help. Good luck and keep us posted?

dream is offline  
post #3 of 32 Old 04-23-2009, 11:27 PM
LIVE FOR THE PROCESS
 
Nesty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: CBus!
Posts: 653
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation 
Total Awards: 1

This advice is probably too elementary for you since your posts are always very knowledge based, but just in case...

Sometimes it's not what you do, so much as how you do it. I ride my bike with the clipped in shoes, but spent a good deal of time ensuring the clips were aligned properly, and then I ride pulling up and pushing down in balance.

Similarly, I supplement riding and running with leg extensions to ensure the muscles surrounding my knees are balanced to prevent rubbing tendons. Low weight, high reps.

Ice, ice, ice, and when you are done, ice. I'm 43 and typically do not miss runs/rides due to pain. Did I mention ice?

Nesty is offline  
post #4 of 32 Old 04-24-2009, 06:13 AM
Isn't That Somethin'
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bradford PA
Posts: 1,028
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation 
Total Awards: 1

I know all about knee problems. I'm 40 in pretty good shape except for the knees. After numerous knee injuries from work, sports, crashes, etc both my knees need to be replaced. They're bone on bone and all i have left in my right knee is my acl everything else is destroyed. the left isn't as bad as far as ligament damage but it's worse for the degenerative join disease. Right now problem is if i get them replaced i would have to retire because i wouldn't be able to do my job. There is some promising surgery alternatives in Japan but they are not available in the US that would allow me to continue to work. After many years of pain killers, narcotic and others, i finally quit taking them other than an occasional ibuprofen. My knees kill me every second of every day but at least i'm not addicted to the pain meds anymore. i walk and or ride my bike every chance i get to help strengthen the joints and all i've noticed is that my knees hurt more! Sorry this was not a feel good or even a feel better story but my knees hurt. Good luck with yours!!!

UT VIVANT ALII...SO OTHERS MAY LIVE
jd31goalie is offline  
post #5 of 32 Old 04-24-2009, 07:15 AM Thread Starter
Sike
 
sike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,620
Rep Power: 1
 
Thanks everyone for your input. Yes, a carbon fiber bike is faster on a trainer. Actually, I wanted something that would help my motivation, and this thing is cool. And, the weekly trip outside really allows it to shine. In the past, I would ignore icing, but I'm amazed how much it relieves my knee pain, so I'm loving the ice. And, like goalie, I had been at 24/7 pain, but the bike and stretching has reduced it, not necessarily intensity but the frequency is down.

Thanks, Again, Steve

It really is helpful to hear from others.

sike is offline  
post #6 of 32 Old 04-24-2009, 07:25 AM
Tirone Choolaces
 
marylandmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 11,122
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by sike View Post
Thanks everyone for your input. Yes, a carbon fiber bike is faster on a trainer. Actually, I wanted something that would help my motivation, and this thing is cool. And, the weekly trip outside really allows it to shine. In the past, I would ignore icing, but I'm amazed how much it relieves my knee pain, so I'm loving the ice. And, like goalie, I had been at 24/7 pain, but the bike and stretching has reduced it, not necessarily intensity but the frequency is down.

Thanks, Again, Steve

It really is helpful to hear from others.
You think carbon fiber makes it faster, try putting a ram air scoop on that thing.

O O o o o . . . .

marylandmike is offline  
post #7 of 32 Old 04-24-2009, 07:28 AM Thread Starter
Sike
 
sike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,620
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marylandmike View Post
You think carbon fiber makes it faster, try putting a ram air scoop on that thing.

O O o o o . . . .
Thanks! That was priceless. Luckily, I'm so damn slow that I don't have to worry about the smaller bikes smoking me, they all smoke me. I would be the squid of the bicycle world if I wasn't getting so much benefit from this. And, my helmet is very plain.

sike is offline  
post #8 of 32 Old 04-24-2009, 07:29 AM
Chuck Norris has lost in battle with this Member
 
Pacojerte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: ft lauderdale fl
Posts: 12,874
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by marylandmike View Post
You think carbon fiber makes it faster, try putting a ram air scoop on that thing.

O O o o o . . . .




Pacojerte is offline  
post #9 of 32 Old 04-24-2009, 07:30 AM
Power 2 the pedal
 
Ridge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: North Cackalacky
Posts: 10,093
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Extraordinary Ride Donation Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 6

I have had knee problems for many years as well. Since I started bicycling last November, they have improved considerably. some of the knee pain is still there, but not nearly as prevalent as before. I ride about 75-100 miles per week. The warm-up is key to preventing muscle and joint fatigue though. When your ride starts, change to a higher gear and spin your legs faster. This causes your muscles and joints to work by flexing without having to stress them as much.

Ridge is offline  
post #10 of 32 Old 04-24-2009, 07:35 AM
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,339
Rep Power: 0
 

Awards Showcase
Donation BOTM 
Total Awards: 2

I tore my MCL a few years ago and cycling has helped me delay having it scoped - I thought it was doing much better , untill my last 2 day trackday - My knee was killin me by 2 on sunday - missed the last 2 session to not futher aggervate it . My ortho gave me some exercises that will help it, but, I only did them for a while and lost the sheet he gave me - Im just a slacer like that !
Do you know what is the problem ? My dad has bum knees due to the cartlidge being dameaged. He did a series of injections of Synthcomb ( I think, pretty cool stuff, its cratlidge taken fro ma roosters comb, gotta love science ! ) and that has helped alot, granted a total knee replacment is the ultimate answer - Maybe something like those injections would help you as well ?

2ohno is offline  
post #11 of 32 Old 04-24-2009, 09:50 AM
Tribunus Laticlavius
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 7,109
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

The past six months I had been running twice a week. Then two weeks ago my knee swelled up, and I iced it. I listened to my body swearing at me and now I am officially retired from running. But still frequently cycling and swimming and my knees/ankles are happy again! I see active folks with high-tech knee braces that reduces load impact. This thread reminds me to cycle up the mountain. Go outside and enjoy that cool, mountain climbing carbon ride!

dream is offline  
post #12 of 32 Old 04-24-2009, 10:02 AM
a.k.a. Macgruber
 
omaha_919's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 2,194
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation 
Total Awards: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by sike View Post
This might get long.


That's what she sai...


DAMN! it doesn't work that way.


I'll try my best to read the whole post now

Abba Zaba, you my only friend.
omaha_919 is offline  
post #13 of 32 Old 04-24-2009, 10:44 AM
not cro-magnon
 
Relic11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Left Coast, Floriduh
Posts: 1,023
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation 
Total Awards: 1

I returned to road bikes after a knee surgery instead of going to rehab. My knees get sore when I don't ride now. Best advice I can offer is Speedplay pedals (the lollipop ones, they offer maximum float) A good fit if you haven't already, and don't crush big gears.

"Gentlemen. You can't fight in here. This is the War Room." - President Merkin Muffley
Relic11 is offline  
post #14 of 32 Old 04-24-2009, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
Sike
 
sike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,620
Rep Power: 1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic11 View Post
I returned to road bikes after a knee surgery instead of going to rehab. My knees get sore when I don't ride now. Best advice I can offer is Speedplay pedals (the lollipop ones, they offer maximum float) A good fit if you haven't already, and don't crush big gears.
That is kind of crazy to hear, since I'm installing a set this weekend. They are sitting in the box right next to my bike. The shop worked with me to set them up, and I'll take it up to them if I have any questions.

sike is offline  
post #15 of 32 Old 04-24-2009, 12:10 PM
Tribunus Laticlavius
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 7,109
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by sike View Post
That is kind of crazy to hear, since I'm installing a set this weekend. They are sitting in the box right next to my bike. The shop worked with me to set them up, and I'll take it up to them if I have any questions.
Oh yeah! A very brilliant inventor (wind trainer too!) Richard Bryne designed those!

dream is offline  
post #16 of 32 Old 04-24-2009, 01:00 PM
Tirone shoelaces
 
TexasTraffic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 744
Rep Power: 1
 
Sounds like you have been doing Taekwondo and snapping those kicks out there.
Looks impressive, though it will tear up your knees after a while.

My right knee has been an issue for a while. It limits me on running, and has started to be an issue in martial arts training. Ibuprofen helps - I notice a difference when I take it before classes.

For serious damage, surgery is about your only answer. Some people report very good results with surgery.

A bicycle can be hard on knees too. Keep the cadence up to 80-90 RPM. Don't slow the cadence and don't push hard on the pedals. Use clips so you can pull up on the upstroke. This will add to your speed with little added effort; it is a different set of muscles. You also get the benefit of greater strength in those different muscles.

Good luck!

TexasTraffic is offline  
post #17 of 32 Old 04-24-2009, 01:21 PM
Chuck Norris has lost in battle with this Member
 
Pacojerte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: ft lauderdale fl
Posts: 12,874
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 2

You can also take glucosimine with condroiton and it will help. Sugar has hip trouble and we give her those and she peps right up



Pacojerte is offline  
post #18 of 32 Old 04-24-2009, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
Sike
 
sike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,620
Rep Power: 1
 
Mostly Karate, but I've trained with and received rank in others. So, not too many flashy kicks. Barton, I have tried that, and it worked good for me when it was just glucosamine. However, it is really hard to find pure in my area, almost all of it is mixed with other stuff or cheap crud.

Everyone, thanks, again.

sike is offline  
post #19 of 32 Old 04-24-2009, 03:41 PM
Tribunus Laticlavius
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 7,109
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by sike View Post
Everyone, thanks, again.
Hope you feel better. Two weeks ago I was limping with an inflamed running knee feeling old. So I just tested the theory out for you, returning from burning up the road cycling 33ml with 4ml of steep climbs and feel great with no pain whatsoever! Cycling is magical. This weekend doing a MB ride on epic single track!

dream is offline  
post #20 of 32 Old 04-25-2009, 04:22 AM
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 17
Rep Power: 0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd31goalie View Post
I know all about knee problems. I'm 40 in pretty good shape except for the knees. After numerous knee injuries from work, sports, crashes, etc both my knees need to be replaced. They're bone on bone and all i have left in my right knee is my acl everything else is destroyed. the left isn't as bad as far as ligament damage but it's worse for the degenerative join disease. Right now problem is if i get them replaced i would have to retire because i wouldn't be able to do my job. There is some promising surgery alternatives in Japan but they are not available in the US that would allow me to continue to work. After many years of pain killers, narcotic and others, i finally quit taking them other than an occasional ibuprofen. My knees kill me every second of every day but at least i'm not addicted to the pain meds anymore. i walk and or ride my bike every chance i get to help strengthen the joints and all i've noticed is that my knees hurt more! Sorry this was not a feel good or even a feel better story but my knees hurt. Good luck with yours!!!
Dude your hardcore

joelpatrol is offline  
post #21 of 32 Old 04-25-2009, 05:01 AM
Pilus Posterior
 
3dcycle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: St Johnsbury
Posts: 2,026
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Outstanding Restoration Outstanding Restoration Outstanding Restoration 
Total Awards: 5

knee replacments are cool, wont ever have to buy a set of knee sliders again. just tell the doc to bulk it up a little bit and leave so TI sticking out

3dcycle is offline  
post #22 of 32 Old 04-25-2009, 05:47 AM
Curmudgeon
 
semi_gray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 899
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation Veteran 
Total Awards: 3

There are many of us in the same boat apparently.
I have suffered knee pain for years. Almost twenty years ago, I was referred to physical therapy. Instead, I went to my local bicycle shop and bought a Trek 8000 which I still have.
My knees now only hurt when I don't ride enough. Currently, I ride about 2K a year and work out in the gym when weather is bad (snow covered trails).
There's lots of good advice here and I concur with the clipless pedals and high cadence.
Also, stay hydrated. Water is your internal lube.

I plan to die young, as late as possible.
semi_gray is offline  
post #23 of 32 Old 04-25-2009, 07:49 AM
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,196
Rep Power: 0
 

Awards Showcase
Veteran 
Total Awards: 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
You can also take glucosimine with condroiton and it will help. Sugar has hip trouble and we give her those and she peps right up
We give this to our dogs as well and they seem to be doing great, of course its more preventative maintenance for them, but my Dad has been taking it for years and he is a pretty spry dude for 74, maybe a little to spry because every time I visit I almost expect to find he has rolled his Bobcat skid steer over on himself doing some kind of crazy project on the property.
Well i hope your knees get better,

tbone is offline  
post #24 of 32 Old 04-25-2009, 08:11 AM
Tribuni Angusticlavii
 
McCrimmon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 3,726
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

Just got done reading this entire post. I don't have much advice other then to listen to your body and in any exercise, proper warm up is key.

Sounds like from the great advice from others above you'll be on a better path to help heal or soothe your knee pain.

I can only imagine the feeling. I have always thought that knee injuries / surgeries have to be one of the worst to go through.

Hope the pain gets better sike


2008 Yamaha FZ1-Street
2005 Honda CBR 600rr-Track
McCrimmon is offline  
post #25 of 32 Old 04-25-2009, 08:23 AM
gitty
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sincy
Posts: 28
Rep Power: 1
 
I did tae kwon do for 10 years as a kid, my knees suffer every once in a while. Especially when the barometer changes. What my doc told me is whatever exercise i choose make sure i never work it past a 90deg bend, low impact, and don't over train which is similarly to bike riding with a steady cadence.

imnaked is offline  
post #26 of 32 Old 04-25-2009, 08:45 AM
Tirone
 
propulsion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 8
Rep Power: 1
 
Fish Pills

People think I'm crazy, and this recommendation will strengthen those opinions. Take 15-20 fish pills a day. I have knee problems as well and I was told to take fish pills, so I took the recommended dosage on the label and it did nothing. Then a fitness website recommended fish pills for losing fat, gaining muscle and they recommended taking as many as 45 per day and a side effect is joint relief. So I tried the increased dosage and it worked. I had trouble walking before, but could now do squats. Don't worry about the dosage, it's like eating more fish it won't hurt you.

propulsion is offline  
post #27 of 32 Old 04-25-2009, 08:49 AM
Tirone Choolaces
 
marylandmike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 11,122
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by propulsion View Post
People think I'm crazy, and this recommendation will strengthen those opinions. Take 15-20 fish pills a day. I have knee problems as well and I was told to take fish pills, so I took the recommended dosage on the label and it did nothing. Then a fitness website recommended fish pills for losing fat, gaining muscle and they recommended taking as many as 45 per day and a side effect is joint relief. So I tried the increased dosage and it worked. I had trouble walking before, but could now do squats. Don't worry about the dosage, it's like eating more fish it won't hurt you.
I know I have never seen a fish with bad knees. Worth a try.

marylandmike is offline  
post #28 of 32 Old 04-25-2009, 08:57 AM
Tribunus Laticlavius
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 7,109
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by propulsion View Post
People think I'm crazy, and this recommendation will strengthen those opinions. Take 15-20 fish pills a day. I have knee problems as well and I was told to take fish pills, so I took the recommended dosage on the label and it did nothing. Then a fitness website recommended fish pills for losing fat, gaining muscle and they recommended taking as many as 45 per day and a side effect is joint relief. So I tried the increased dosage and it worked. I had trouble walking before, but could now do squats. Don't worry about the dosage, it's like eating more fish it won't hurt you.
That's very interesting! Sushi pills. A top eye doctor recommends high quality brand Nordic Natural omega-3 fish oil. I've been taking a tablespoon every morning, so my joints are benefiting! If my joints ever flare up, I'll take a second tablespoon at night. The bulk form is the least expensive.

dream is offline  
post #29 of 32 Old 04-25-2009, 09:27 AM
gitty
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sincy
Posts: 28
Rep Power: 1
 
ummmm.... fish burp.....



imnaked is offline  
post #30 of 32 Old 04-25-2009, 10:11 AM
Tribunus Laticlavius
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Northern California
Posts: 7,109
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by imnaked View Post
ummmm.... fish burp.....
Man Up!

Just a drop of that dense stuff on your finger will fumigate the cage! I chase sushi-oil with juice and let it digest before exercise. Extra motivation not eating greasy burp food.

Fish Oil is great for you! Buy wild fish products, since farmed has lower omega-3s and toxins of PCBs (Polychlorinated biphenyls) and mercury. Buy only a reputable omega-3 brand from wild fish, if the label doesn't say then it's farmed.

dream is offline  
post #31 of 32 Old 04-25-2009, 10:15 AM
Stare into me...
 
GDJAM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Joisey
Posts: 1,926
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Extraordinary Ride Donation Extraordinary Ride Donation 
Total Awards: 4

Syn-visc is the latest and greatest stuff......it is labeled only for knees but will work in other joints if your Doc is agreeable. I've heard alot of good things from people who use it....it's kinda like Mobil 1 for yer knees

Most docs won't try it without trying Cortizone first, and insurance companies usually want some documentation that you've tried every other remedy berfore they will buck up the 8-900 bucks a series of injections cost (if they pay for it at all....it's liquid Gold)

That being said I've known people who will just pay for it out of pocket because it's that good.

GDJAM is offline  
post #32 of 32 Old 04-25-2009, 10:26 AM
Chuck Norris has lost in battle with this Member
 
Pacojerte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: ft lauderdale fl
Posts: 12,874
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by dream View Post
Man Up!

Just a drop of that dense stuff on your finger will fumigate the cage! I chase sushi-oil with juice and let it digest before exercise. Extra motivation not eating greasy burp food.

Fish Oil is great for you! Buy wild fish products, since farmed has lower omega-3s and toxins of PCBs (Polychlorinated biphenyls) and mercury. Buy only a reputable omega-3 brand from wild fish, if the label doesn't say then it's farmed.
that and it gives you the magical ability to [email protected] through a screen door and not leave a stain...lol....


ahhhh... diarrhea



Pacojerte is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wrist Twisters forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome