rough starting - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 25 Old 06-07-2010, 06:46 PM Thread Starter
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rough starting

2003 919 pc3 bafflectomy flapper mod and 22,000 miles. So when I start my bike I have to be on the throttle and it takes two three four times for it to start. Bike idles at 1200 rpm. Doesn't matter what map I am running and it doesn't matter what fuel grade I'm running. It will fire for a quick sec but it doesn't "catch".

Any Idea's????????????????/

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post #2 of 25 Old 06-07-2010, 07:01 PM
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better send it to me for diagnosis....

I'd start with removing the PC3 from the equation personally.

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post #3 of 25 Old 06-08-2010, 04:35 AM
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beefsalad is right on. Disconnect the PC3 first. If that doesn't help, look for fouled plugs.

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post #4 of 25 Old 06-08-2010, 04:58 AM
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Sounds like my lawn mower. No fuel. Check fuel, air and fire. Air usually isn't a problem, so if you are getting spark it's probably the fuel. But I am not a licensed ASE certified mechanic

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post #5 of 25 Old 06-08-2010, 05:31 AM
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Dead on balls, i had an issue with my PC as well. Get it out of there to see if that fixes it. if it does it may be just a simple ground issue (mine was).

Next check fuel, possible filter/pump. Hows it run if you keep it going and try to go down the road?

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post #6 of 25 Old 06-08-2010, 06:06 AM
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How old are the spark plugs? I think they are supposed to get replaced at 16K?

Just trying to think of obvious stuff first.

Then there's the infamous fuel pressure regulator. Search for info on that.

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post #7 of 25 Old 06-08-2010, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyCatcher View Post
Sounds like my lawn mower. No fuel. Check fuel, air and fire. Air usually isn't a problem, so if you are getting spark it's probably the fuel. But I am not a licensed ASE certified mechanic
i am and that sounds pretty accurate to me

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post #8 of 25 Old 06-08-2010, 07:31 PM
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Mine does the same thing, disconnect the PC3 and it'll fire right up, runs better with the PC3 connected so I just live with it.


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post #9 of 25 Old 06-08-2010, 07:39 PM
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You have to crank the throttle open on mine to start (with a PCIII) sometimes...& sometimes you don't. Not removing the PCIII so don't know if it would follow that.

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post #10 of 25 Old 06-09-2010, 06:27 AM
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I usually pull the enricher knob out when starting cold with a PCIII and it fires right up with no throttle. I think it might not start as readily cold without the enricher.

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post #11 of 25 Old 06-09-2010, 07:00 AM
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I've had the same starting problem. The motor will run as long as I hold the starter button. I can't put it any better then mdastrider, it just doesn't seem to "catch" and run on its own. It's worse the colder the air temp. I have: PCIII, Yoshi pipes, PAIRS removal, and flapper mod. I'll try removing PCIII.

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post #12 of 25 Old 06-09-2010, 07:55 AM
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doublej. i have the same issue but i've noticed that when its colder it wont catch well. when it's warmer, it'll catch on its own, first time and keep runnin.

i kept playing with the low end of the throttle adjustment and it made some better improvement. look into it and see about making your low throttle setting 1 or 2 bars richer at each time (on each fresh cold start mind you, may take several days). and see what works. you cant make it too rich though or you'll bog down at low speed manuvers and run the risk of dumping it, learned that one the hard way.

only real way to fix the issue is to get your bike properly tuned via a dyno. until then, shrug.

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post #13 of 25 Old 06-09-2010, 09:49 AM
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Thanks Pvster, and everyone. I played with the low end RPM setting, which is pretty course, and did end up with a little better starting, but I got a lot of carbon build-up on my pretty end-caps so reverted it. I guess I'll live with it, seems like that's what everyone else has done, since there's no quick fix! I'd rather keep the PCIII connected anyway

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post #14 of 25 Old 06-09-2010, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleJ View Post
I've had the same starting problem. The motor will run as long as I hold the starter button. I can't put it any better then mdastrider, it just doesn't seem to "catch" and run on its own. It's worse the colder the air temp. I have: PCIII, Yoshi pipes, PAIRS removal, and flapper mod. I'll try removing PCIII.
Is this with or without the enricher? If without, have you tried using it? I'm curious since I never noticed any starting problems but I always use the enricher. Nobody seems to mention the enricher but its purpose is to improve cold start performance.

I have a PCIII with Satos and Dan Kyle's map.

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post #15 of 25 Old 06-09-2010, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catonsvilleguy View Post
Is this with or without the enricher? If without, have you tried using it? I'm curious since I never noticed any starting problems but I always use the enricher. Nobody seems to mention the enricher but its purpose is to improve cold start performance.

I have a PCIII with Satos and Dan Kyle's map.
I haven't noticed any benefit in terms of starting with the enricher. Yeah, it runs better when it's cold, but I don't feel that it has helped me start better.

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post #16 of 25 Old 06-09-2010, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleJ View Post
I haven't noticed any benefit in terms of starting with the enricher. Yeah, it runs better when it's cold, but I don't feel that it has helped me start better.
You don't actually leave it pulled out for more than maybe a minute do you?

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post #17 of 25 Old 06-11-2010, 10:42 AM
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Ive never used my enricher even in cold dallas weather...... never, sounds like you made need a tune. you can try to sneak around it by downloading different maps to your PC but there is no sub for a custom map. try some free ones though they have some good ones out there ive been running one forever, dont wanna fork over the 250 to do it the right way.

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post #18 of 25 Old 06-11-2010, 11:00 AM
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I don't think so.

It's there for a reason, believe it or not. I only use it for cold starting and push it in within seconds of starting. That's what it was put there for.

I am very happy with my map from Dan Kyle. I am not messin' with it. Works perfect for me.

Or maybe you were not talking to me?????????????

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post #19 of 25 Old 06-11-2010, 11:10 AM
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Nope wasnt talkin to you i was talkin to the OP in reference to his problem, may wanna play arround with the mapping there are some 'decent' free maps out there. I know why its there (the enricher) Im not retarded, but the only FI bike I ever needed to use one on was a TLr. Those things hate to start.

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post #20 of 25 Old 06-14-2010, 04:59 PM
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in the process of getting my bike running again this weekend, it APPEARS to me that if you have a battery that is starting to get a little weak, you may not have the juice to spin the starter, spark the coils, power the electonica (ecu, fuel pump, running lights) simultanesouly, all with adequate gusto to start easily and reliably.

it SEEMED that my bike would start much more reliably when i had the battery charger vs. not. even though the battery spun the engine over at what seemed to be a decent clip. ie, it cranked fast enough that i wouldn't have thought i was going to be buying a battery today...but i did.

please note my "dithering" words ....

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post #21 of 25 Old 08-31-2010, 01:45 PM
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---- figure I'd redig up an old post. I'm having the same issue..... except, I can add to it.

I have the flapper removed, single 2brothers, and a PCIII-USB....EXCEPT. I've had the same map & exhaust since I first bought the bike...... its NOW doing the above.

Its JUST during the starting precedure.... with or without the enricher pulled out.

It takes 4-8 times for the bike to fire ---- you can hold the starter and she'll stay running, until you let off. If you blip the throttle anytime during --- she comes alive.

Once the bike is running ---- it runs and idles flawlessly. (1200 RPM) ---- as a matter of fact.... I just rode 500 miles to the MotoGP and back and she ran beautifully.

I even went to the extent of re-syncing the throttlebodies & double checking all the vaccum hoses..... still having the same issue.


I'm starting to wonder if it IS PC-III USB related somehow. (I know the map works well with the bike....because I've been running the same map all summer) I have yet to grab my PC computer to grab the map back..... I'm wondering if maybe the throttle position needs to be recalibrated within the PCIII-USB software.

I'll report back if I figure it out.

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post #22 of 25 Old 08-31-2010, 01:50 PM
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Even with the same map and exhaust, the PCIII could be failing or there could be a connection or grounding problem.

You should still remove the PCIII completely, test, and post your results.

As Bucky pointed out, a failing battery may also cause these symptoms.

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post #23 of 25 Old 08-31-2010, 01:57 PM
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.....I'll probably do that tonight.......

1. double check the battery with my multi-meter
2. pull the PCIII-USB ---- if it starts normal.... then....
3. make sure the throttle position is correctly calibrated within the PCIII-USB software
4. look for a bad ground


I can attest ---- this is a stange problem, out of owning 16 bikes....I've never had this happen.

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post #24 of 25 Old 09-01-2010, 04:29 PM
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what air cleaner do you have? i'm beginning to form an opinion that an allegedly less restrictive air cleaner may throw the cranking a/f ratio into a tizzy. try swapping the stocker back in, that is if you have a K&N or other aftermarket. SIMPLEST, CHEAPEST, FIRST. that's the mantra for ALL diagnostics.

a multi meter will only tell you the resting voltage, which quite specifically is NOT what we are talking about here. your battery's ability to push a load is what's important, and a multimeter WILL NOT tell you that.

if you live in Michigan, you should probably have a battery tender. anyplace north of the mason dixon sortof requires it. regardless of whether or not this is a battery problem you're currently experiencing.

it's not a bad ground....unless you're talking PCIII wiring there.

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post #25 of 25 Old 09-01-2010, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catonsvilleguy View Post
I usually pull the enricher knob out when starting cold with a PCIII and it fires right up with no throttle. I think it might not start as readily cold without the enricher.
This is my practice and experience also. However, on really cold days, and I mean into the 40s of degrees F, I find it wants a touch of throttle opening to catch. It then runs up to 1500 or so, and settles down quick on the enrichener alone and no throttle in less than a minute.

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