Rotor Question - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 55 Old 09-27-2010, 03:16 PM Thread Starter
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Rotor Question

Could not find a decent thread on rotors through search so here's a new one with some simple to answer questions, hopefully:


I just got G&J brake lines, plan on bleeding the lines, new Dot4 etc., but figured, why not get new rotors and pads at the same time?

I don't think I can afford the $500 jobbies and I hear they are not all that and a bag of chips (warping, etc.) Background info: I live 4 hours from the nearest track, have never been, but plan to, don't brake hard, but know that the added benefit of brake lines, new rotors, and pads will help the bike immensely.

So a couple of questions:

1) I've seen other 'wave' rotors on eBay - the Chinese assortment, for much cheaper than brand name rotors. Are they dangerous? Are they better, or worse than stock? If they are better than stock, and not dangerous, I'd bite. If they are crap, then of course I'll save up for the real stuff.

2) What 'wave' rotors, or rotor replacements, would you guys recommend? Even if they are the pricey ones, I can always save up, but if the knock-offs will suffice, or even if they are better than stock, I might try them.

Thanks!

LDH, I'm compiling a list of parts I need to get from you someday - chain/sprocket setup to begin with!

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post #2 of 55 Old 09-27-2010, 03:26 PM
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I've done some looking around about wave rotors. There are people on the track and street that are using the Chinese made wave rotors with no problems. Here's a review by some local guys on a yzf-6. There was one guy in a forum that have reported the floating rings (whatever they're called) to have broken after a few hundred miles. It seems there are two or three versions on the Chinese made variety, and one of them have been known a few times to have this issue. Also on the BUSA forums, there seems to be talk about stress fractures...

As for wave rotor design, it seems like they're not worth all the hype. Unless you just want them for looks... Turn on some moto races on TV and check to see how many are using wave rotors...

I would say this is up to you, it seems people who have/are using them have mixed reviews. But this isn't a clutch or brake lever, this is your brake system. Something I wouldn't want to compromise on, at least not for a few hundred bucks.

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post #3 of 55 Old 09-27-2010, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewebay1 View Post
I've done some looking around about wave rotors. There are people on the track and street that are using the Chinese made wave rotors with no problems. Here's a review by some local guys on a yzf-6. There was one guy in a forum that have reported the floating rings (whatever they're called) to have broken after a few hundred miles. It seems there are two or three versions on the Chinese made variety, and one of them have been known a few times to have this issue. Also on the BUSA forums, there seems to be talk about stress fractures...

As for wave rotor design, it seems like they're not worth all the hype. Unless you just want them for looks... Turn on some moto races on TV and check to see how many are using wave rotors...

I would say this is up to you, it seems people who have/are using them have mixed reviews. But this isn't a clutch or brake lever, this is your brake system. Something I wouldn't want to compromise on, at least not for a few hundred bucks.
Thanks for the feedback - I definitely won't skimp on the braking system.

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post #4 of 55 Old 09-27-2010, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
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...still researching....I like the looks of these:

YanaShiki Rotors Honda CB Hornet 900 02-06 Left Rotor: eBay Motors (item 180536962841 end time Oct-21-10 10:56:43 PDT)

and they are still somewhat in my price category. Thoughts?

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post #5 of 55 Old 09-27-2010, 04:01 PM
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ill let LDH chime in on this... but the general concensus with wave rotors, is they are just for show.... u NEVER see any race bikes (moto gp) on the track with wave rotors... u might see them in pictures with em but they are just for show.

Stick with the stock rotors they are much better than any wave rotor.... the only time i know of a wave rotor being beneficial is in an extremely dirty muddy case (ie dirtbike) where the self cleaning nature of the wave rotors is helpful.

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post #6 of 55 Old 09-27-2010, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
Could not find a decent thread on rotors through search so here's a new one with some simple to answer questions, hopefully:


I just got G&J brake lines, plan on bleeding the lines, new Dot4 etc., but figured, why not get new rotors and pads at the same time?

I don't think I can afford the $500 jobbies and I hear they are not all that and a bag of chips (warping, etc.) Background info: I live 4 hours from the nearest track, have never been, but plan to, don't brake hard, but know that the added benefit of brake lines, new rotors, and pads will help the bike immensely.

So a couple of questions:

1) I've seen other 'wave' rotors on eBay - the Chinese assortment, for much cheaper than brand name rotors. Are they dangerous? Are they better, or worse than stock? If they are better than stock, and not dangerous, I'd bite. If they are crap, then of course I'll save up for the real stuff.

2) What 'wave' rotors, or rotor replacements, would you guys recommend? Even if they are the pricey ones, I can always save up, but if the knock-offs will suffice, or even if they are better than stock, I might try them.

Thanks!

LDH, I'm compiling a list of parts I need to get from you someday - chain/sprocket setup to begin with!
I got a spare set of wheels and wanted to finish them with broken in rotors and pads, to have ready for touring tires. I used my stock rotors and pads for that.
My daily wheels got fitted with new EBC wavey and EBC HH pads. I have over 1000 miles of Track Day time on them. They work great, zero problems. I got the wavey purely for look, if I was to do it again I might to simple round instead. Having said that, I'm now thinking that a smarter choice might have been a set of used 929/954 rotors and calipers, and pads of one's choice - be they OEM Honda or aftermarket.
I would not buy brake rotors or pads from anyone other than Honda or the reputable aftermarket brake suppliers.

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post #7 of 55 Old 09-27-2010, 06:20 PM
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If you can't go all out for a set of Galfer's or EBC's, I wouldn't do it. The catch all is..... for $600, there's alot of other things you can do on the 919 to get better brakes.


Steel lines, MOTUL RBF, Good pads, and multiple bleeds go a long way.

The best brakes I've ever had ---- were on my Yamaha R1.....which had radial calipers, steel lines, good pads, and the Brembo Radial master cylinder. So....... still ran OEM Yamaha rotors on that bike..... it was single finger braking at triple digits.

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post #8 of 55 Old 09-27-2010, 07:23 PM
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I really like my BRAKING wave rotors- between them (3) and the braided lines and Pazzos my 919 picked up some serious braking power and modulation over stock.

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post #9 of 55 Old 09-27-2010, 07:28 PM
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hehe in all seriousness you guys really do make me laugh. When I read things about "serious braking power" and everyone is still using OEM master cylinders it really does make me chuckle inside. & I mean that in a good way.

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post #10 of 55 Old 09-27-2010, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
hehe in all seriousness you guys really do make me laugh. When I read things about "serious braking power" and everyone is still using OEM master cylinders it really does make me chuckle inside. & I mean that in a good way.
I did say "over stock". The stock set up was very spongy, and after a 10 min stint in the twisties it felt like I could almost pull the lever to the bar. I am doing a rc51 sp1 swap over the winter- that should equate to a "serious braking power increase", correct?

Anyone have any leads to a complete rc51 sp1 front end?

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post #11 of 55 Old 09-27-2010, 08:12 PM
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I'm with ya bro!

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post #12 of 55 Old 09-27-2010, 08:39 PM
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LDH...... any ideas if anyone makes a radial Master Cylider that would be well suited/calibrated for the 919?

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post #13 of 55 Old 09-27-2010, 08:45 PM
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Are you kidding? Slap a Brembo RCS on there and two things will never happen.

1. You will NEVER want for a better master cylinder

2. You will NEVER be satisfied with a stock one again

The RCS is adjustable for either an 18 or 20 ratio although most people will never want to deviate from the 18 setting and it comes with a trick folding lever that used to only be available as an expensive upgrade that was a pain to install.


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post #14 of 55 Old 09-27-2010, 09:38 PM
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Yummy, but pricey on a street bike.

I don't have a issue with the 919's standard front brakes, IMO they suit the bike and it's performance capabilities. The back brake - what a piece of wood!!!!!!! zero feel.

Sure it is easy to jump on a 2010 model GSXCBRY thingy and go wow over the brakes - but they also have 170 plus horses to slow down.

I got to wonder if you would be better off with a low km late model hyper-sports bike and just make it naked. I think if I lived in the states that's what I'd do - especially as your bikes are so cheap second hand. I was going to insert a Harley joke but figured it would be tasteless ....

Sample below shamelessly stolen off some website by be recently - CBR1000 of a couple year vintage I believe - surprising clean sans plastics.
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post #15 of 55 Old 09-27-2010, 09:42 PM
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$300 thereabouts is not bad for high performance part like that. I know guys that spend more than that on fake carbon fiber turn signals and crappy fender eliminators LOL

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post #16 of 55 Old 09-27-2010, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
$300 thereabouts is not bad for high performance part like that. I know guys that spend more than that on fake carbon fiber turn signals and crappy fender eliminators LOL
Darn - the man has a point!

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post #17 of 55 Old 09-28-2010, 05:07 AM
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I can admit......the Brembo radial master cylinder on the R1 was awesome....

Can't image what the RCS would be like...... Right there is money well spent.

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post #18 of 55 Old 09-28-2010, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
Are you kidding? Slap a Brembo RCS on there and two things will never happen.

1. You will NEVER want for a better master cylinder

2. You will NEVER be satisfied with a stock one again

The RCS is adjustable for either an 18 or 20 ratio although most people will never want to deviate from the 18 setting and it comes with a trick folding lever that used to only be available as an expensive upgrade that was a pain to install.

The question is will it "slap" in. Or do you need some special motorcycle mechanic mojo?

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post #19 of 55 Old 09-28-2010, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic954 View Post
I can admit......the Brembo radial master cylinder on the R1 was awesome....

Can't image what the RCS would be like...... Right there is money well spent.
Can someone please explain what is it exactly that a radial master cylinder does, to make it different and better as compared to the classic style.
I know zero on this point.
My GSX-R750 has an OEM radial on it, but I can't compare it to the my 919 set up because there is no way of isolating the master cylinder so all I can feel are the overall braking "system" differences.
I have no clue as to how much of the braking differences I feel are from rotor size, caliper design, bike weight, pad material, let alone the master cylinder.

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post #20 of 55 Old 09-28-2010, 09:16 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
$300 thereabouts is not bad for high performance part like that. I know guys that spend more than that on fake carbon fiber turn signals and crappy fender eliminators LOL
Link? Do you sell them?

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post #21 of 55 Old 09-28-2010, 09:32 AM
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Yes I sell Brembo products. You will have to call or PM me though as I can't advertise or sell them online for the kind of pricing I sell them to Wristtwisters members for.

You'll have to devise a method of mounting up a Reservoir cup, but that isn't to hard. I have actual kits for most sportbikes with clip-ons, but with wide handlebars like the 919 I sell these aluminum bendy brackets to use as mounts.

Here are a few different ways I have mounted them up


















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post #22 of 55 Old 09-28-2010, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
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excuse my ignorance. Why do you have one installed on the left side? Is that a brake? or is that for the clutch?

Or is that rear brake on an automatic bike?

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post #23 of 55 Old 09-28-2010, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
excuse my ignorance. Why do you have one installed on the left side? Is that a brake? or is that for the clutch?

Or is that rear brake on an automatic bike?

That's a Ducati Monster with a hydraulic clutch

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post #24 of 55 Old 09-28-2010, 09:45 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
That's a Ducati Monster with a hydraulic clutch
Gotcha. So will all the reading I've done, I know you don't want to mix different master cylinders (or the sizes) with different calipers.

Hence the question, if the stock rotors are 'good enough' and the stock calipers are 'good enough', can I install just a Brembo master and will it work with the stock setup? Or does it require Brembo calipers/pads as well?

And do aftermarket SS brake lines work with the Brembo master?

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post #25 of 55 Old 09-28-2010, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
Gotcha. So will all the reading I've done, I know you don't want to mix different master cylinders (or the sizes) with different calipers.

Hence the question, if the stock rotors are 'good enough' and the stock calipers are 'good enough', can I install just a Brembo master and will it work with the stock setup? Or does it require Brembo calipers/pads as well?

And do aftermarket SS brake lines work with the Brembo master?
Works great with the OEM calipers and brake lines although if you are going to the expense & time to install an performance aftermarket master cylinder it would be in your best interest to have braided lines as well (I sell the Spiegler brand which are all DOT approved & I stock the 919 lines in black with black fittings although some of the members here have bought some custom colored ones for their 919 from me as well)



I recently did some custom ones for myself in purple & white too



I know quite a few trackday riders whose only mods on their bikes are front & rear suspension, rear sets, brake lines & Master Cylinder. That's pretty much the basics of being able to ride quickly.

Suspension keeps the bike compliant and gives you traction with limited tire wear & the brakes slow you down without fade during aggressive use and give you more precision and feedback when trailbraking.

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post #26 of 55 Old 09-28-2010, 10:07 AM
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Ive installed speigler steel lines on 2 of my bikes..... Have been extremely happy with them. Fit, finish, and installation instructions are always top notch.

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post #27 of 55 Old 09-28-2010, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks again for the info - I do have G&J braided lines, just got them. They stated something about corrosion problems with the anodized colored lines though, so I just got the stainless ends.

If a new master cylinder and brake lines are more of an improvement than calipers and pads, then I'll go that route. I'm not a racer by any means, but I do have the money and time to make my bike a better ride, and braking, to me, is the most important system, followed by suspension (but I can't afford that one quite, yet, lol).

I do like tactile and precise feedback in brakes; mostly for the accuracy obtained in riding, but also for safety, as I commute a lot.

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post #28 of 55 Old 09-28-2010, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
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Thanks again for the info - I do have G&J braided lines, just got them. They stated something about corrosion problems with the anodized colored lines though, so I just got the stainless ends.
That's another reason why we have started selling Spiegler lines now. Their anodizing process is the best in the industry more more faded aluminum fittings that are so prominent with other brands. I can't ever recall an aluminum fitting actually corroding without something else as a catalyst like using high alkaline cleaners etc

Oh & the fittings on the Spiegler lines can be rotated for a perfect fit every time.

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post #29 of 55 Old 09-28-2010, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
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...Oh & the fittings on the Spiegler lines can be rotated for a perfect fit every time.
They are a bitch to turn tho. I destroyed several of the plastic blocks they provide trying to hold the crimp neck while I rotated the fitting. I finally got it, but sure wish I knew an easier, more effective way. Got any tricks for that one?

Of course, I had it in my vice.

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post #30 of 55 Old 09-28-2010, 11:15 AM
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Just use a pair of channel lock pliers on the plastic blocks. Works like a charm with very little effort

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post #31 of 55 Old 09-29-2010, 01:29 AM
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I've a question re the banjos - should alloy concern me at all? I'd have thought stainless would be the preferred metal for the banjo.

I've been on the look and notice the likes of HEL lines only use stainless and are quite anti alloy.

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post #32 of 55 Old 09-29-2010, 05:06 AM
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......with all my bikes I've purchased lines with the aluminum banjo bolts/fittings. Never had a problem except the first time I did them.....if you torque an alloy bolt to factory steel spec., you'll over torque it and rip the head off the banjo. Another reason Im not a fan of Goodridge---they have no instructions usually..... OEM Steel bolts are usually torqued down to around 18-25ftlbs......the alloy is usually around 12-15ftlbs.

Maybe LDH can speak some word into this (as to wether this is a safe practice)......with a Hayabusa I use to own.... I did use the OEM steel banjo bolts with an aluminum fitting steel line. It just made me fell better with that bike as it was mostly a drag-strip bike........ Never had any leaking or dissimilar metal issues in doing this.

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post #33 of 55 Old 09-29-2010, 06:38 AM
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Yeah I snapped my 1st AL banjo as well dosen't need alot

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post #34 of 55 Old 09-29-2010, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic954 View Post
......with all my bikes I've purchased lines with the aluminum banjo bolts/fittings. Never had a problem except the first time I did them.....if you torque an alloy bolt to factory steel spec., you'll over torque it and rip the head off the banjo. Another reason Im not a fan of Goodridge---they have no instructions usually..... OEM Steel bolts are usually torqued down to around 18-25ftlbs......the alloy is usually around 12-15ftlbs.

Maybe LDH can speak some word into this (as to wether this is a safe practice)......with a Hayabusa I use to own.... I did use the OEM steel banjo bolts with an aluminum fitting steel line. It just made me fell better with that bike as it was mostly a drag-strip bike........ Never had any leaking or dissimilar metal issues in doing this.
Your information is pretty much spot-on here.

For the record unless you custom order the banjo bolts (which we sometimes do) the Spiegler lines come with aluminum fittings, but also re-use the OEM steel banjo bolts with the supplied aluminum crush washers.

Brake lines are pretty much brake lines. I mean in a blind test you wouldn't even be able to tell me if they were Spec -2 versus -3 lines and most riders wouldn't even know OEM lines versus aftermarket if they weren't looking at them with their own eyes. Don't get me wrong aftermarket lines do their job of alleviating the expansion that OEM rubber lines have under harsh use, but few street riders ever truly experience that. Just like with aftermarket air filters that actually harm the performance of the bike, but the owners swear that their new $100 filter is giving them more performance the placebo effect can be a strong manipulator.

Basically what I am saying is that all braided brake lines accomplish the same thing to the same degree of function. I have never had any brand of brake line I have installed on one of my bikes (Galfer, Russell, Goodridge or Spiegler) fail nor have any of the hundreds of lines I have installed on customers bikes ever failed. I have seen them end up looking like crap once the covering on the braided material starts to fade or the anodizing on the fittings fades etc...

The reason I prefer to sell & use the Spieglers is because they hold up better and keep their aesthetic value longer than any other brand I have tried and their swivel fittings means you always get a perfect fit.

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post #35 of 55 Old 09-30-2010, 02:04 PM
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OMG that brembo caliper........oh I'm thinking dirty thoughts now!

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post #36 of 55 Old 09-30-2010, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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Got my G&J lines put on last night. Man, that sux doing it without a vacuum. First time I've ever done it, too, so that probably didn't help. Finally figured it out, though. Osiris, thanks for your help.

Front brake is TONS better. Can't say so much about the rear, although I'm going to bleed it more tonight just to make sure.

Heading out tomorrow on a Teton/Jackson hole run with Osiris! Anybody near us can meet up somewhere along the 500+ mile route!

So, LDH, if my experience (from 1 to 10) going from stock lines to stainless was, say, a "7", how would it be going from where I am at now (with stainless) and adding that Brembo cylinder?

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post #37 of 55 Old 09-30-2010, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
So, LDH, if my experience (from 1 to 10) going from stock lines to stainless was, say, a "7", how would it be going from where I am at now (with stainless) and adding that Brembo cylinder?

If you were that impressed with just lines to give it a "7" then adding a new Brembo Master Cylinder will be a 22 on your scale

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post #38 of 55 Old 09-30-2010, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
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hahahahahaah , ok, then, when I get some mula, I will be PM'ing you about that.

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post #39 of 55 Old 09-30-2010, 03:33 PM
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If you were that impressed with just lines to give it a "7" then adding a new Brembo Master Cylinder will be a 22 on your scale
What kind of $$$ are we talking about for a Brembro Master?

Spoiler:

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post #40 of 55 Old 09-30-2010, 03:34 PM
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$300ish plus whatever cost for the type of mount kit you want to dream up etc...

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