Rear Rack - Working on a new concept - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 41 Old 11-03-2014, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
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Rear Rack - Working on a new concept

I'm working on a simple rear rack design and looking for some constructive feedback. I'm fairly new to the 919 having purchased BruteForce's bike back in September. I'm really enjoying it so far. I mostly do hour long pleasure rides, ride it to meetings, go to the store for small items, etc.

I've been trying to figure out what I want to do to be able to carry a few items. Don't need to carry much - maybe a jacket liner, tire gauge, extra ear plugs, small flashlight, a couple of burritos, pair of shoes, etc. - about 5 to 15 liters of stuff.

What I see available are the items from SW Motech, Ventura, and Givi. Not sure that I care for any of them for what I want to do. Especially for what some of them cost. I'm not interested in a tank bag. And to complicate things, the bike has a Corbin seat which doesn't really have a nice flat area for a tail bag.

The photos below show a prototype of a simple rack I'm working on to replace the factory grab bar. This is laser cut and formed 14 ga (.075") 304 stainless. I have it spaced about an inch above the rear bodywork which puts it a bit below the Corbin. I figured if I wanted it the same height I could always space it up. There are a few slots to run webbing through, or hook bungees to, and I suppose I could also bolt on a top case plate if I wanted to. I think the Wolfman Peak tail bag would be a good fit and there may be other options as well.











Any thoughts on this concept? I'm planning on making a few small changes - narrowing up the top section about an inch overall (putting the sides more inline with the seat), moving the seat release hole forward, and removing a little material where it passes through the bodywork. Would there be any market here for these if I was to run a batch of 10 units or so? It looks like the cost would be in the $75-$100 range if I did them in batches of 5-10.

Thanks for the input.

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post #2 of 41 Old 11-03-2014, 04:58 PM
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Wow. Good luck, I think you are on to something. I don't think I would want one, but I think there is a market there. The only thing I see is that the line/plane of the rack should follow the seat and be more flush with the top of the seat. I have saddle bags and plan on getting a tail bag to match that straps to the saddle bags. I like the grab bar and stock look for local rides.

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post #3 of 41 Old 11-03-2014, 07:42 PM
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Very nice! You may want to include some mounting points that angle down to the passenger pegs, as a few folks have actually cracked the rear frame on those 4 handle bolts due to weight.

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post #4 of 41 Old 11-03-2014, 09:48 PM
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Couple of things:

trim some material away between the tail and the rack material to give you more clearance.

Add in the bolt patterns for the givi/sw mounting plates. Make the rack as versatile as you can.

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post #5 of 41 Old 11-04-2014, 04:50 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loosemcgoose View Post
The only thing I see is that the line/plane of the rack should follow the seat and be more flush with the top of the seat. I have saddle bags and plan on getting a tail bag to match that straps to the saddle bags. I like the grab bar and stock look for local rides.
Thanks for the input. I was debating on how high to make the rack. I think lower looks better, especially if one is using the stock seat, since it's so low. But, I need some clearance under there to be able to bolt a top case plate to it if I decide to do that. I could space it up to the height of the Corbin but that wouldn't really gain anything unless I was trying to make a tail bag cover both the rack and the seat. Even then, it wouldn't be a nice flat surface.

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post #6 of 41 Old 11-04-2014, 04:54 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Very nice! You may want to include some mounting points that angle down to the passenger pegs, as a few folks have actually cracked the rear frame on those 4 handle bolts due to weight.

Paging Ken Phenix...
I have seen the threads on the broken mounting points and don't want to end up there. I think my goal for this unit though is to be for lighter loads and not for a big top case that will hold 2 helmets and a week's worth of supplies. I have thought about how to add side case racks in addition to this unit and that will probably be one of my next projects. Thanks for the feedback.

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post #7 of 41 Old 11-04-2014, 04:59 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Couple of things:

trim some material away between the tail and the rack material to give you more clearance.

Add in the bolt patterns for the givi/sw mounting plates. Make the rack as versatile as you can.

There's quite a bit more clearance between the side flanges of the rack and the tail than what it looks like - about 3/4". I'll see if I can find any specs on the Givi bolt pattern which could easily be incorporated. I'm not sure I want to promote this as a top case rack though, due to the loads it'd place on the mounting points, especially with a passenger using the case as a backrest.

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post #8 of 41 Old 11-04-2014, 06:08 AM
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That looks good! And it's about in line with what I've been wanting in a rear rack-- I'm probably never going to want to put a big topcase on, but just having something to strap a small-to-medium tailbag or backpack to that's less slippery than the seat would be awesome. Consider me interested if you do end up making more.

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post #9 of 41 Old 11-04-2014, 03:33 PM
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I could see that working for the extremely light loads you have listed, but not much beyond that. That sheet will probably flex more than you think - possibly even far enough to make contact with the fairing when hitting a bump.
Something that would really help would be some lateral bracing to prevent buckling along the bikes centerline.

Definitely looks good though for some light loads.

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post #10 of 41 Old 11-05-2014, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
Paging Ken Phenix...
Very nice indeed! That seems more than adequate for carrying a few sundries short distances. I might add spacers under the attachment points to make them flush with the tail plastic and raise the rack closer to the level of the seat. That way you could toss on a small dry bag situated half on the rack and half on the pillion. From what I've seen when others carry things on the back of a 919 is that you need a bag with D-rings or mounting points far enough apart that straps connected to the passenger pegs do not rub the tail plastic. A small or medium dry bag should provide all the space you need - and keep things dry and easy to tote too.

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post #11 of 41 Old 11-05-2014, 05:37 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks again for all the input. Hopefully I'll have version 2 done later today and I'll add new photos when I can.

I doubt that material flex will ever be an issue, especially with the intended loads. The only way to put a lot of loading on it would be with a large hard case - which would hang beyond the rack quite a ways and put a lot of leverage on it over bumps. Even then, the base plate for the case would be rigidly bolted to the rack, adding to the stiffness of the top. The weak points would be possible buckling of the sides where they are narrow (just above the mounting points), or the mounting points on the bike itself.

Ken, I thought about making the mounting flange even with the tail plastic but the angles are different and the bolts end up being quite close to the plastic, not leaving much room for flange material.

Raising the rack to the seat level would provide more combined area and would probably work well for the flexible duffle-type bags you listed. The Corbin really dips down in the pillion area so it wouldn't be a long flat area. Also, the seat is very rigid (non-compressible) along the back ridge, especially in the middle where the backrest mount is.

I'm looking a using this Wolfman Peak tail bag. It's dimensions are very close to the rack (10" long, 9.5" front width, 5" rear width), it has stiffened sides and bottom, and it expands from 8 to 11 liters. If the hooks line up with the slots it'd be a very easy install. I also have several dry bags I use for kayaking (ranging form 5 to 100 liters) that I could strap onto the rack. They're all bright yellow though


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post #12 of 41 Old 11-05-2014, 05:33 PM
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One of the things I miss on the 919 is lack of storage. There's some things I'd like to have on the bike all the time.

I don't know if it would work on your design, but having the top plate area with a slide out or maybe a lockable slide out under the top plate would be nice.

Kind of like the license plate trunk things where the license plate holder is really a box where you can store things.

Another idea is the top plate itself. What if it had hinges so that it goes from small to larger when the rider wants so that you can carry larger items.

Think of the top plate as 3 plates that stack with hinges on the sides. You fold out the top 2 plates and now it's 3x the size.

That way you could make it a smaller design and still handle larger packages.

The plates could have a simple "lock pin" where you unfold, then push a support pin that goes under the fixed plate and locks the fold out plate in place.

The fold out plates could have a hole that could attach a bar that goes down to the rear pegs for support on an as needed basis. ... Even the support bar to the lower pegs could be a tube in tube that shrinks down and stores under the plates when not in use.

... I'm going to stop now before I suggest a sink adapter

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post #13 of 41 Old 11-05-2014, 07:38 PM
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karl, dont feel bad, i had all those same ideas along with making that corbin seat pillion pad hole another point of possible attachement. Put a square rod with a large part where d-rings can attach and youve got a nice mounting point, if not carrying a passenger that wants to use a backrest.

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post #14 of 41 Old 11-06-2014, 05:27 AM Thread Starter
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I like the way you think, KarlJay! The little slide out "drawer" sound like a cool idea, but it'd take a bit to pull off well. Having everything fold-out and expandable would definitely increase the carrying area but there are already decent options on the market for carrying a lot of gear.

I did work on a few concepts for using the backrest mount on the Corbin. I was thinking of making a small rack (about the size of the pillion seat) that would mount in the 5/8" square receptacle. The thought was to make the angle of the post adjustable so the rack could be flipped 180° and still be made level. That way you could run it in the forward position (pillion position) or turn it to the rear if you had to take a passenger. I think it's a viable concept but the market would be limited to those using the Corbin seat.

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post #15 of 41 Old 11-06-2014, 05:42 AM Thread Starter
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Here are a few pics of version 2 and I think I'm happy with this design. I narrowed the front up a little to better match the lines of the seat, tipped the rear up so there's a 2° downward angle towards the front with my weight on the bike, and revised the contour of the front edge and around the seat latch area.

I need to do some softening of the laser cut edges and then I think I'll spray it with black Plasti-Dip. Other finish options I considered were powdercoating, bead blasting, and random orbit sanding. Any of those would work but I think the grip of the Plasti-Dip might be advantageous, and it's cheap, easy, and removable. I made 4 of these and I should know in a day or so what kind of expense I have in them. If it looks viable, I'll offer some up for sale to anyone who wants to try one. I'm kind of interested to see how one looks and aligns with a stock seat.








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post #16 of 41 Old 11-06-2014, 06:47 AM
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I'm interested. No finish necessary for me, I can powdercoat it.

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post #17 of 41 Old 11-06-2014, 10:47 AM
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After looking closer at the pics where it attaches to the bike, I noticed something.

If you use the bolts as holders instead of as a leverage point, it would be much stronger.

In other words:
As you are using it now, all the force is where the bolt holes are. If you make it such that it goes down to the frame, then up to the bolt holes, the force would go down to the frame.

Consider:

------_____--------______-------- <- the two down parts are the bolt holes.
-------------------------------------- <- frame

vs

_X__-------______-----------______-------___X___ <- The ends go down and touch the frame where the 'X's are, so that force is then transferred to the frame and not at the bolt only.


If made well, it should be setup so the bolts force the bracket down just a bit so that it makes solid contact with the frame.

A solid rubber pad might be a good idea as well, right where it touches the frame. A simple O ring with a bump in the mount would do the trick.

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post #18 of 41 Old 11-06-2014, 11:13 AM Thread Starter
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Not sure that I follow that. The bottom flange of the rack is formed so it sits flat on the frame and bolts tightly to it. The bolt holes are slightly elongated to accommodate any slight difference in hole centers between different bikes.

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post #19 of 41 Old 11-06-2014, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
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Not sure that I follow that. The bottom flange of the rack is formed so it sits flat on the frame and bolts tightly to it. The bolt holes are slightly elongated to accommodate any slight difference in hole centers between different bikes.
I didn't get it either. The mounting point is flat, maybe he is thinking of how the grab handle is shaped and though maybe the frame was same way?

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post #20 of 41 Old 11-06-2014, 12:24 PM
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Ok, I just looked up a pic of the frame and it looks like I was wrong.

I was thinking it was a bar with raised threaded part for the bolts, but it looks like it's a flat part with flush threads.

In that case, an O ring around the bolt to isolate the bracket, will cut down on the vibration which could help prevent cracking.

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post #21 of 41 Old 11-06-2014, 08:19 PM
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Im interested!

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post #22 of 41 Old 11-08-2014, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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Well, I think I'm calling this a finished product. I sprayed a rack with Plasti-Dip and snapped a few more photos.











Here's a photo of one with a quick random orbit sanded finish. This is a nice finish for stainless since it can be touched up easily.


The bare rack weighs 24 oz while the OEM grab bar weighs 16 oz. Shorter bolts are required for the rack so the net result may be about a wash. The rack is 9.4" wide at the front, 4.5" wide where the rear curve starts, and 7.3" from the very back to the center of the seat release lock.

It looks like I'll be able to offer these for $65 (- hardware, + shipping) if anyone's interested and I'll be posting them in the classified section soon. I'll be offering them as the basic laser cut and formed stainless part so they can be finished however one desires. Slight deburing of the slots and edges is advised if one is running straps/bungies around them. I have 3 extra at this point but can have however many I need within a day or two.

Thanks for everyone's feedback on this. Hopefully this is a worthwhile part for those who just want something basic to strap a small load to.

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post #23 of 41 Old 11-08-2014, 08:25 PM
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Looks great!

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post #24 of 41 Old 11-08-2014, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
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Looks great!
+1
I've got grab rail plates on my 919 but that i d something i would use. Never been a huge fan of a tank bag.

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post #25 of 41 Old 11-08-2014, 08:39 PM
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I like it! What's the weight rating on this bad boy?....and are you going to offer a version for XB's?

:buell:
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post #26 of 41 Old 11-10-2014, 07:43 AM Thread Starter
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I've opened a thread in the classified section offering these for $65 + $13 shipping (USPS medium flat rate box): https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...ion-53665.html

Thanks for all the input, and let me know if you'd like one.

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post #27 of 41 Old 11-10-2014, 09:05 AM
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I like it! What's the weight rating on this bad boy?....and are you going to offer a version for XB's?
Your XB exceeds its own weight limit, even with no one on it.

"Keep on 9-in"

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post #28 of 41 Old 11-11-2014, 12:02 AM
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Your XB exceeds its own weight limit, even with no one on it.
At 395lbs wet I find that kind hard to believe...

:buell:
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post #29 of 41 Old 11-11-2014, 05:56 AM
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do you have anything sealing off the holes where the grab bar used to cover? I don't know how I would feel about water having a straight shot down into my electronics.

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post #30 of 41 Old 11-13-2014, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
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do you have anything sealing off the holes where the grab bar used to cover? I don't know how I would feel about water having a straight shot down into my electronics.
that's a good idea, would really clean up the look at the holes.. I wonder how hard it would be to have a rubber plug that fits around the rack arm, with a lip to pop in place in the holes. Would probably add a bit of cost though.

Props to you gn83 for making a nice simple product with a good bit of functionality.
I use a tank bag but could still think of plenty of uses for one of these. and it looks better than the big givi plate i have there now. i'll keep it in mind.

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post #31 of 41 Old 11-13-2014, 08:22 AM
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I bought one guys and will post a pic when installed. Looking at getting a Nelson Rigg tail bag with the same taper cut at the rear. Ought to look and function awesome.

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post #32 of 41 Old 11-14-2014, 06:31 AM Thread Starter
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If I knew of an inexpensive, simple way to close off the holes in the bodywork, I'd certainly do it. A nice rubber snap-in plug would be awesome, but that's not my area of expertise. The only way I know of doing that would be to make an injection mold ($$$$) and have a few thousand plugs made.

I'm thinking that it might be possible to put some decent foam rubber under the bodywork (over the rack mounting flange/bolts) to seal up the holes. I'll look around to see if I can find something suitable.

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post #33 of 41 Old 11-14-2014, 07:13 AM
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The SW-Motech uses a steel plate to block off the holes. The plate is integrated with the mounting hardware.

This is part #2 in the installation instructions:

http://files.twistedthrottle.com.s3...._131_100_b.pdf

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post #34 of 41 Old 11-14-2014, 07:37 AM Thread Starter
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That would work - and also about double the cost of this project unless the production numbers were a lot higher. It'd take 4 machined spacer sleeves, 2 laser cut plates, development of a fixture to hold the parts in position, welding of the parts, and clean-up. Very doable, but not very feasible for a few units.

I don't see that they use a gasket under the mount so I'd be a bit concerned with it rubbing on the bodywork or leaving a gap. Especially given the inevitable variations between frames, seat cowlings, and how they relate to each other.

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post #35 of 41 Old 11-14-2014, 05:58 PM Thread Starter
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I grabbed some 1/2" thick closed cell foam from work today and intended to use it to fill in the holes. As I looked at it, I don't see that it's worth the trouble. The bolt heads sit up as high as the opening so they won't be covered. As far as sealing things up for the electronics goes - the rear cowling isn't sealed anywhere else (including underneath, where it gets a lot of tire splash), so I don't see that as a real issue.

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post #36 of 41 Old 11-18-2014, 10:55 PM
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My rack is on order. Just got the bike saturday. I will have to make up for the inability to have saddlebags by strapping a milk crate on it. The previous owner went to one extreme, removing the grab bar and covering the holes in the body with stickers--great idea, really improved the looks, who cares about functionality? I think I'll go the other extreme just for fun.

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post #37 of 41 Old 11-19-2014, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manzanita View Post
My rack is on order. Just got the bike saturday. I will have to make up for the inability to have saddlebags by strapping a milk crate on it. The previous owner went to one extreme, removing the grab bar and covering the holes in the body with stickers--great idea, really improved the looks, who cares about functionality? I think I'll go the other extreme just for fun.
Are you saying that you're going to strap a milk crate to this plate? That really wouldn't be a good idea; he designed this plate with small light loads in mind (I would guess not much more than 10 lbs?). I would consider an alu-rack from sw-motech for medium loads (<20 lbs) or givi rear rack for heavy loads (milk crate).

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post #38 of 41 Old 11-19-2014, 11:00 AM
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Have to agree about not mounting a milk crate. This rack cantilevers off the bolting base and is not designed for much weight. I'm mounting a Wolfman Peak tail bag to mine and shouldn't have more than 5 pounds in it. Just an extra space for wallet, phone and water bottle.

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post #39 of 41 Old 11-19-2014, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
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I'd say 10 to 20 lbs would be an ok load for the rack and the bike frame. The Alu-rack is rated at "16.5 lbs inclusive case and adapter, or the motorcycle manufacturer's weight limit, whichever is less". Keeping the weight low and forward would definitely be best, as would smooth roads. A milk crate may be a bit much, but a smaller, lighter Pelican case would probably be ok.

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post #40 of 41 Old 11-20-2014, 08:58 AM
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Shit,I thought it was 20 lbs for the alu-rack. Guess I should stop doing grocery runs with it...
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