Question about 919's handling - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
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Question about 919's handling

Can anyone tell me why my 919 seems to go from rock solid to a nervous wreck once passing a certain threshhold of lean angle? Nothing crazy, not even dragging a foot peg but not very confidence inspiring. The bars become super-sensitive I'm scared to do anything with them until the bike is picked back up. Am I doing something wrong? Or is this just the way the bike it?

I'm 165, stock rear shock and .90's in the forks.

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post #2 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 09:42 AM
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I hazard a guess at parts bin (stock as you said) suspension and the frame (or lack of).

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post #3 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 09:50 AM
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Something doesn't sound right. The only time mine has felt like that was a bad rear wheel bearing. It was like a bad wobble once leaned over. Definitely a scary feeling.


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post #4 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
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Well it doesn't really feel like something is mechanically wrong, it just seems to get all nervous. Is this just how stock bike built for city and street riding reacts when you treat it like a sportbike?

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post #5 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 10:58 AM
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What tyres are you running, what condition are they in and how old are they?

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post #6 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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I got the bike with Pilot 2's and now running Roadsmart 2's. Come to think of it, it seems to be worse with the Dunlops but the problem was still there with the Michelins.

Seems to stay consistent through the life of the first set

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post #7 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 11:05 AM
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Might be the tires, especially if they are squared off - basically, you're leaning on the edge of that 'square' and it's very 'tippy' at that point.

New tires should help a lot.

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post #8 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 11:07 AM
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never had this feeling on 919 even with stock suspension. Now with F4i forks and ohlins rear its super planted. peg n knee dragging is rather easy.

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post #9 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 11:19 AM
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Michelin Pilot Road 3's
In what condition and old was the PR 2's that came with the bike? Maybe you had crappy tyres to start with and then went on to install a not-the-best set of new tyres. Even if a tyre looks like its still good, it can go off due to age (hardens).

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post #10 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 11:32 AM Thread Starter
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If the 9'er can be a peg and knee dragging bike, then I should probably just look into making it better. Where do the limitations of the frame come into play? I have no issues on corner exit with this bike flexy or not and the squat doesn't bother me either. All I care about is corner entry and mid-corner.

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post #11 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 11:54 AM
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Disregard my first post. I didn't quite understand in what context you were talking about.
Id' definately look at your tyre situation: type, wear, age, inflation, etc. Difficult to help (not that I'm an expert) someone remotely, without seeing everything first hand, but it sounds like your tyres could very well be the issue, everything else being equal and in good order.
What is your tyre pressure?
I loved the Michelin PR2's (think the 2's are obsolete now) sonow it will be 3's, 4's(?) for the 919.

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post #12 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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I just read through this thread and nobody seems to mention how their 919 would have done with an Ohlins shock and proper fork. It's mentioned that there is very little to improve on, and then another thread will say an Ohlins shock makes a night and day difference. I'm confused.

https://www.wristtwisters.com/forums/...ack-17465.html

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post #13 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 11:58 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farab View Post
Disregard my first post. I didn't quite understand in what context you were talking about.
Id' definately look at your tyre situation: type, wear, age, inflation, etc. Difficult to help (not that I'm an expert) someone remotely, without seeing everything first hand, but it sounds like your tyres could very well be the issue, everything else being equal and in good order.
What is your tyre pressure?
I loved the Michelin PR2's (think the 2's are obsolete now) sonow it will be 3's, 4's(?) for the 919.

I always run between 40 and 42. I've never had a problem with a bike falling into corners until I mounted those Dunlops, ususally I like it but now it happens so suddenly the make a correction and make a mess of the whole corner becuase the steering is so sensitive at high lean angles.

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post #14 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 12:03 PM
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Its well known (mentioned everywhere in these forums) that especially the rear shock on the 919 is crap. How Honda can look itself in the mirror by sending that bike out the door with what barely qualifies as rear suspension is beyond me. Even for normal use. As I have been told/heard/read, they were apparently trying to compete with the Suzuki SV1000N in other parts of the world and sent the Hornet out the factory door the cheapest possible.

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post #15 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 12:06 PM
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Maybe others can chime in here, but I run about 40 MAX at the rear. Usually 38 rear and 34 to 36 front. Not saying I am right, but I'd say that 42 is too much.

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post #16 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 12:10 PM
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How long have you had the bike? Have you ever had the forks serviced? Honda (a dealership) took mine apart once and said that there was a lot of water inside (was still under warrantee, so not very old).

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post #17 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 12:43 PM
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I found my 919 to be twitchy at any real speed. Mainly because you had to work it so hard to get the speed.

Make sure you are gripping the tank with your knees and being very light on the bars. They are a bit of a truck to turn so my guess is its rider input thats the issue.

Mine improved a lot with narrow bars.

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post #18 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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I just had the forks re-built when the springs were put in. I've been thinking more and more the rear shock is where most of the problems are coming from. Common sense I suppose, but the further you lean, more worse the shock performs, correct?

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post #19 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 12:57 PM
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As NZspokes mentioned bars, what bars do you have, still the stock ones?
If so I'd really recommend Renthal Ultra lows, it does make a difference on how you handle the bike hand how the bike feels. A relatively cheap but well worth it improvement to those horrible OEM bars.

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post #20 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auron View Post
I just had the forks re-built when the springs were put in. I've been thinking more and more the rear shock is where most of the problems are coming from. Common sense I suppose, but the further you lean, more worse the shock performs, correct?
I estimate there are about 3000 km of track day mileage on my 919.
(but I haven't tracked since the end of 2011 when we lost our local track)
I only tracked it after doing the suspension.
I have never experienced what you are describing, if anything, the very opposite.
The stock rear suspension piece is not really a damper with spring, instead it's more of a thing to hold some coils of mush.
The late model rear is so undersprung for what you are doing, it's offscale.
The frame is not THE problem nor A problem, at least not for mere mortals on street tires.
Properly done and set up front and rear suspension units transform the bike.
Nicely done, a 919 is a rock steady forgiving platform that much more easily allows newbies to have their brain speed stay get up to the bike's level of brain need.
One thing I did notice though, was that the 919 rear to me felt like it had more tire sidewall wallowing until it heated up, than my 750 GSXR did with the same cold tire pressure setting. I ended up using a wee bit more pressure in the 919 rear as a result.

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post #21 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
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The stock rear suspension piece is not really a damper with spring, instead it's more of a thing to hold some coils of mush.
Yep, I have often wondered how a legendary company like Honda, somehow thought it was ok to send the 919 out the factory door with that piece of junk that vaguely resembles a rear shock. Its something that you'd find on those cheap "No-Name" brand bikes. Shameful.

We can all take a stab in the dark at what your problem may or may not be. I'd personally do some asking around and go to someone locally (suspension expert, that is well known in your local bike scene) that knows what he's doing and can assess the situation first hand.

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post #22 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 01:24 PM Thread Starter
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I think there might be an Ohlins or Penske in my future

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post #23 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 01:28 PM
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Speak to LDH on here.

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post #24 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 02:01 PM
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42 psi is WAY WAY too much.

I have always ran around 28-30 in the front and 26-30 in the rear depending on load. If im doing mass amount of highway miles bump those psi's up by 2... but nothing more than that.

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post #25 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
42 psi is WAY WAY too much.
Echo echo !!!!
Makes me wonder what his front is at. 36?
Why critique bike handling when the tires are at liability pressure level instead of rideability level ?

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post #26 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 02:29 PM
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36 rear 38 front! Im slabbin on my commute, i can count the turns on one hand. Never had any drama from running my psi like that. 42 is a bit much though.

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post #27 of 55 Old 08-01-2015, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auron View Post
I always run between 40 and 42. I've never had a problem with a bike falling into corners until I mounted those Dunlops...
Diff tyres respond to pressures in different ways - I had a Pirelli on the front for a while that was great in the 27-31 range, horrible and wooden above that. My current Dunlop is quite happy in the 32-35 range.

Try and bring it down in stages, see where you get a bit more squish and feel out of the tyre - I can always tell if my pressure gets too low, it feels like I''m trying to steer the bike through treacle.

It sounds like the jittery jumpy feel you've got at present is the opposite end of the scale, and I'd drop the high pressure asap.

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post #28 of 55 Old 08-10-2015, 08:01 AM
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I know exactly what you are saying, and I think the swingarm is a bit weak, I would love to try a 600rr swingarm and see if it made a difference!

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post #29 of 55 Old 08-10-2015, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
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36 rear 38 front!

Thats what I run as well.

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post #30 of 55 Old 08-10-2015, 09:27 AM
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From the first test ride I took on my '02, I found its manners in a corner to be very good all the way to tagging the pegs (no feelers). I have found that the stock shock, while a bit harsh at street speeds, improves tremendously at elevated speeds especially in corners. The secret is to keep the rear suspension loaded with the throttle and be as smooth as possible.

The point is you can spend considerable sums of money trying to cure a problem that is caused by general setup mistakes and poor technique, and on the other side of the handling coin you can get a mediocre motorcycle to do amazing things with the application of proper technique and experience.

My advice is drop your tire pressures to reasonable values and try it again.

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post #31 of 55 Old 08-11-2015, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
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I know exactly what you are saying, and I think the swingarm is a bit weak, I would love to try a 600rr swingarm and see if it made a difference!
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post #32 of 55 Old 08-11-2015, 02:12 PM
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Jesus. I forgot about that thing. I have to say, the swinger really looks like it belongs on that machine.

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post #33 of 55 Old 08-11-2015, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
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So what is the story on this one?

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post #34 of 55 Old 08-13-2015, 01:23 AM
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Did the swingarm conversion quite a few years ago........if you can cut, fabricate, and weld then its quite easy to do. It took a little working out and some was trial and error. You need the complete cbr600rr swingarm and shock setup. i made an adjustable dogbone linkage and welded a bracket onto the frame so i could raise and lower the rear. A couple of spacers for the footrest side plates. cut and weld the exhaust headers with a new link pipe so it ran a single side exhaust. Moved the rectifier and i think i used a differant rear caliper if memory serves me right.

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post #35 of 55 Old 08-13-2015, 02:03 AM
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......if you can cut, fabricate, and weld then its quite easy to do.
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post #36 of 55 Old 08-13-2015, 06:40 AM
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"I'm just popping out to the workshop, love, I may be some time..."

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post #37 of 55 Old 08-13-2015, 07:53 AM
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That thing looks amazing...

What is the piping positioned on the side and under the seat that seems to tie into the exhaust... Not a turbo, is it?

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post #38 of 55 Old 08-13-2015, 09:20 AM
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You guys arent flexing your swingarms on street tires... Not to your detriment anyway.

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post #39 of 55 Old 08-13-2015, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
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That thing looks amazing...

What is the piping positioned on the side and under the seat that seems to tie into the exhaust... Not a turbo, is it?
Oh yes it is..........
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post #40 of 55 Old 08-13-2015, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
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Oh yes it is..........
That thing looks AMAZING...

Found an old thread detailing your challenges around installing it. Not to jack the thread but... did you manage to rebuild it after you resolved the smoking problem? How does it run now?

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