Preload adjusters set to MAX and still too much sag - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 19 Old 06-16-2015, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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Preload adjusters set to MAX and still too much sag

At 30k+ miles, are my fork springs worn out? Now i'm 200 lbs, and I wasn't expecting RR quality forks on this bike, but I can't even get the fork sag below 45-50mm. (The rear shock I set to the maximum ramp and am just at 35-40mm).

Most people count the lines on the preload adjuster for sag adjustments, but I am 2-3 imaginary lines above the top line, to the point where the adjuster is almost completely recessed into the fork cap.

Would some racetech springs help with this? I highly doubt the oil has ever been changed, so I would like to put heavier oil at 25mm over stock (as recommended on this site), but what kind of springs and spring rate would you recommend for a heavier guy like myself? Any other fork setup recommendations or am I better off just hunting down some F4i forks with compression adjustment? Thanks


Side Question: I cannot find stock rebound settings for front and back anywhere online or in the manual. Is stock just all the way to the left?

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post #2 of 19 Old 06-16-2015, 06:58 PM
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I'll get this going, then let the experts correct me

You definitely need springs; the stockers are way soft. I'm about the same size and used .95kg/mm, but I think other recommendations here would be to go with .9kg/mm. Install with 10-15mm of installed preload. Use 10w fork oil (I use Maxima racing), at around 135mm per guidance from the smart folks here.

I'd try this first before going to f4i. If you do go to f4i in the future, you can use the same springs in those, so really nothing lost in trying springs/oil in the 9'er forks first.

Rebound adjuster setting should not be all the way to the left, but I'll have to see if I can find the stock setting. It will likely be somewhere 1 - 2 turns from fully closed (closed is all the way clockwise, but just turn till it stops, don't seat it too hard). I'll reply again if I find it.

'96 DR650, '01 SV650, '10 Aprilia Tuono 1000R
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post #3 of 19 Old 06-16-2015, 07:25 PM
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Get new springs designed for your weight = problem solved.

The F4 forks will still have a similar problem since they are not set up for your weight.

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post #4 of 19 Old 06-16-2015, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superdog View Post
Install with 10-15mm of installed preload.
I take it you mean install 10-15mm of extra oil in the fork, is that right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superdog View Post
It will likely be somewhere 1 - 2 turns from fully closed (closed is all the way clockwise, but just turn till it stops, don't seat it too hard). I'll reply again if I find it.
I just turned the rebound adjustment all the way to soft (counter-clockwise), then backed them back out 1 turn each (clockwise). For some reason my left rebound adjuster would go out 2 turns clockwise from full soft, but my right adjuster would only go 1-1.5 turns before stopping. Weird, but that's a different story.

How do you like those .95 kg springs? Are they a bit too stiff or just right for you?

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post #5 of 19 Old 06-16-2015, 08:33 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnich77 View Post
Get new springs designed for your weight = problem solved.

The F4 forks will still have a similar problem since they are not set up for your weight.
I hear you, but I highly doubt the F4 forks will be so bad that I can't even get close to recommended sag (30-35mm) with the adjusters all the way in. I know 200 lbs is heavy, but I'm not this poor sumbitch

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post #6 of 19 Old 06-16-2015, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeFrelon View Post
I take it you mean install 10-15mm of extra oil in the fork, is that right?
No, the oil height is different. Installed preload is the amount the spring will be compressed when the fork is assembled with the preload adjusters all of the way out.

Oil height of 135mm does account for the extra (I think stock is around 150mm?). When you are filling the forks, with the spring out and the upper tube fully compressed into the lower, you'll want the oil height at 135mm below the top of the tube. Before measuring, you'll need to pump the cartridge to get all of the air out of the chamber.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LeFrelon View Post
I just turned the rebound adjustment all the way to soft (counter-clockwise), then backed them back out 1 turn each (clockwise). For some reason my left rebound adjuster would go out 2 turns clockwise from full soft, but my right adjuster would only go 1-1.5 turns before stopping. Weird, but that's a different story.

How do you like those .95 kg springs? Are they a bit too stiff or just right for you?
The adjusters won't necessarily have the same exact number of turns between the 2 forks; it depends on how the forks were reassembled. You can make them consistent when you put them back together; it's not hard. The only way to be consistent in getting the rebound setting the same between the 2 is to start from fully closed (clockwise), and back out the same number of turns from there.

I like my .95 springs, but I can't make a fair comparison because I have them in f4i forks with different valving and lighter weight oil. I was able to set my sag correctly, though.

'96 DR650, '01 SV650, '10 Aprilia Tuono 1000R
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post #7 of 19 Old 06-16-2015, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeFrelon View Post
I hear you, but I highly doubt the F4 forks will be so bad that I can't even get close to recommended sag (30-35mm) with the adjusters all the way in.
I can't remember for sure, but I think f4i stock springs are even lighter than the 919 springs.

'96 DR650, '01 SV650, '10 Aprilia Tuono 1000R
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post #8 of 19 Old 06-16-2015, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superdog View Post
I can't remember for sure, but I think f4i stock springs are even lighter than the 919 springs.
Correct.

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post #9 of 19 Old 06-16-2015, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeFrelon View Post
How do you like those .95 kg springs? Are they a bit too stiff or just right for you?
I use .95's and I'm 185lb without gear - they've got plenty of movement in them.

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post #10 of 19 Old 06-16-2015, 10:31 PM
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I'm just going through this as well. I'm 220ish.

rear is full height and a quarter back from full rebound
front is one line left and about a quarter back from full.

Rear is good, front needs some work..

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post #11 of 19 Old 06-17-2015, 01:54 AM
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Anybody else noticed the non-tightly wound part of the 919 spring looks a lot like a .95 racetech spring? Same wire diameter and coil spacing?

Muhwawawa

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post #12 of 19 Old 06-17-2015, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks to everyone for the input so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superdog View Post
No, the oil height is different. Installed preload is the amount the spring will be compressed when the fork is assembled with the preload adjusters all of the way out.
.
I want to upgrade the springs no matter what, but out of curiosity, as a quick fix if I were to disassemble the forks and increase the installed preload, would that enable to me to set the sag to where I need it with the stock adjusters?

Does anyone on here have any experience with progressive rate springs in their forks?

And finally, this is a real n00b question, but would I be able to do revalving on my own with the right special tools, or is it something that needs to be done in house by a suspension suppplier?

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post #13 of 19 Old 06-17-2015, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeFrelon View Post
I hear you, but I highly doubt the F4 forks will be so bad that I can't even get close to recommended sag (30-35mm) with the adjusters all the way in. I know 200 lbs is heavy, but I'm not this poor sumbitch


New springs.... 97.43

Definitely cheaper than the F4 forks and it will fix the problem.
(not necessary your spring rate)
Race Tech Fork Springs - .90 KG/MM FRSP S3732090

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post #14 of 19 Old 06-17-2015, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeFrelon View Post
And finally, this is a real n00b question, but would I be able to do revalving on my own with the right special tools, or is it something that needs to be done in house by a suspension suppplier?

It's not hard, just buy new valves and swap them out.

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post #15 of 19 Old 09-08-2015, 06:29 PM
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I'm in this category too, tipping the scale at 210lbs. The front is way too soft and my 04 doesn't have any adjusters on the forks. Preload is maxed in back as well. What springs should I be looking for?

- 2004 Honda 919
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post #16 of 19 Old 09-08-2015, 09:28 PM
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Try the calculator here

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post #17 of 19 Old 09-09-2015, 09:44 AM
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Setting static sag on a progressive spring is an exercise in futility. If you want to set your preload by setting sag then you will have to get some straight-rate springs.

If your 04 doesn't have preload adjusters then your forks are not 919 forks. Do you have a pic?

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post #18 of 19 Old 09-09-2015, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdavis984 View Post
Setting static sag on a progressive spring is an exercise in futility. If you want to set your preload by setting sag then you will have to get some straight-rate springs.

If your 04 doesn't have preload adjusters then your forks are not 919 forks. Do you have a pic?
The bike has a rebuilt title, due to a front end collision, info I got from the seller was the owner before him had a small accident and his insurance had the dealer replace the entire front fork area. I'm guessing now after reading around here that 04's have adjsutable forks, the dealer must have put an 03' set on.

- 2004 Honda 919
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post #19 of 19 Old 09-09-2015, 05:58 PM
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That's a bummer. The 04 forks are adjustable for preload and "damping". The compression and rebound adjust together.

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