powercomander on stock 919 - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 52 Old 06-28-2007, 06:53 PM Thread Starter
 
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powercomander on stock 919

Would I get any better performance, or better gas to air ratio with a power
comander111 on 919 with stock cans? I am still burning a rich mixture on my 919. I have changed plugs, put 93 octane in. I have put in fuel injection
cleaner. Rode it long and hard. Most of my ride time is at 70 mph, for a 25 mile comute to work in the morning, then 25 miles home. My plugs are still
getting fowled, and I can see black smoke coming from the pipes when I rev it up.

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post #2 of 52 Old 06-28-2007, 07:17 PM
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What kind of condition is your air filter in ? How many miles on the clock?
What kind of fuel injector cleaner are you using?

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post #3 of 52 Old 06-28-2007, 10:53 PM
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Did you start running premium and cleaner in response to a rich condition, or did the rich condition result from running premium and cleaner? If the former, there is a problem which has nothing to do with fuel quality such as a plugged air intake, fuel pressure regulator or return line blocked, a disconnected vacuum hose, or an inadequate power feed to the ignition coils that needs troubleshooting and correction. If the latter, forget the fuel injector cleaner and run regular gas.
In your case, the slower burning less volatile premium fuel (it's true: look it up!) combined with injector "cleaner" which invariably damps the burning even further is resulting in a flame front arriving at the cylinder walls long after the piston has started down the cylinder, wasting most of the caloric value inherent in gasoline and sending combustion efficiency down the drain (out the tailpipes?) Combine this with the original problem and you have an engine that is struggling to run at all, much less run well. Time to roll up your sleeves and do some serious inspecting: you will probably find it was something relatively minor causing a major problem.
Good luck with this.

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post #4 of 52 Old 06-29-2007, 04:56 AM
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post #5 of 52 Old 06-30-2007, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
 
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I have 8000 miles on the bike. I have cleaned the air filter. ( It was Clean anyway). No loose vac hoses.

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post #6 of 52 Old 06-30-2007, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foowee123 View Post
Would I get any better performance, or better gas to air ratio with a power comander111 on 919 with stock cans?
1.) Would I get any better performance
Answer=Yes
2.) better gas to air ratio with a power comander111 on 919 with stock cans?
Answer=Yes

Stock bikes run very very very very very rich!

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post #7 of 52 Old 06-30-2007, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpson View Post
1.)
Stock bikes run very very very very very rich!
Hmmmm .... I just pulled the #1 plug out of my '02 (feeling guilty about the original plugs at 30,000 miles) and not only does it not need replacement, it's also a very light tan color on the center insulator, either meaning it's not very very very very very rich or current fuels hide very very very very very rich very very very very very well!

Rob

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post #8 of 52 Old 06-30-2007, 10:32 PM
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You are recommended to run 87 Octane fuel also. Check it out on 919.org http://www.rc51.org/fuel.htm

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post #9 of 52 Old 06-30-2007, 10:33 PM
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Hey Rob, is your bike completely stock? The insurance company just totalled my bike but I'm still very interested in something... I had just put in new plugs (at 14,000 miles) and all four of the old plugs were black, even though it seemed to be running perfectly. I ran a tank of gas through it and noticed 10 mpg better mileage with the new plugs. Mine had a K&N filter, Yoshi cans, and PCIII. I bought it that way and I never had a chance to play around with the PCIII to try and lean it out a bit - I had a feeling it might be running just a little rich.
I'm sure I'll replace the totalled 919 with another 919 so I'm still trying to figure the bike out.

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post #10 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 03:48 AM
 
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I, for one, am tired of this crap...

Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
Hmmmm .... I just pulled the #1 plug out of my '02 (feeling guilty about the original plugs at 30,000 miles) and not only does it not need replacement, it's also a very light tan color on the center insulator, either meaning it's not very very very very very rich or current fuels hide very very very very very rich very very very very very well!

Rob


I apologize to the other folks on the board, but someone has to say it:

Give it a freakin' rest Rob!

Every other post you seem compelled to write about how darn much you know and then argue about peoples actual experience. It must be nice to own the most perfect 919 on the planet and be intimately familiar with every mechanical and electrical system ever constructed.

We've all got access to wikipedia and google too.

It's insulting, unnecessary, and intimidating to people that have valid questions or concerns about their own bikes and experiences. I personally find it offensive and unwelcome.

Please channel this infinite wisdom into curing cancer, ending poverty and hunger, and bringing everlasting peace to mankind. It's simply not fair to the rest of humanity to waste it here. This is especially true since we other forum participants are so utterly and completely ignorant in regards to the topics discussed. Obviously quite a few of us suffer from Munchausen syndrome. I often remove my beautifully tan plugs and rub charcoal all over the electrodes and insulator so I can be part of the "in crowd" and pretend my bike runs rich too.

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Okay, maybe I didn't abide by that second quote...

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post #11 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 04:07 AM
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On behalf of those who enjoy and appreciate Rob's posts and sharing his expertise with the board, stfu sylas.

Access to google and wikipedia do not endow us with the diagnostic skills necessary to solve some of the problems we've read about here.

Rob's posts are highly valued here, on the 919 maillist, the Hornet's nest and other places.

Nothing in his post above or any others I've read have anything that even borders on being, "insulting, unnecessary, and intimidating".

If anything, it is your post that is guilty of the things you accuse him of. If you don't like it, don't read it. Or place him on ignore. Resorting to mean spirited posts isn't necessary and I hope Rob isn't offended by your vitriol. He's a valued member here, I for one wouldn't want him to be reluctant to post with his style, willingness to help, and generosity.

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post #12 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 04:39 AM
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18,914 miles on the original plugs. I pulled the two outboard plugs yesterday to check their condition. They look good, light tan, no deposits, etc. Having said that, mine has the exhaust stink, and I've seen it puff black smoke with someone else riding it under hard acceleration. I run regular grade gasoline.

Could be one or both of the inside plugs is fouled, but I doubt it. But it has the smell of running rich. The plugs don't indicate it though.

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post #13 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 06:03 AM
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I changed my plugs at 9500 miles the other day and the original ones were dark. The throttle response has increased maybe 10%.

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post #14 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken View Post
On behalf of those who enjoy and appreciate Rob's posts and sharing his expertise with the board, stfu sylas.

Access to google and wikipedia do not endow us with the diagnostic skills necessary to solve some of the problems we've read about here.

Rob's posts are highly valued here, on the 919 maillist, the Hornet's nest and other places.

Nothing in his post above or any others I've read have anything that even borders on being, "insulting, unnecessary, and intimidating".

If anything, it is your post that is guilty of the things you accuse him of. If you don't like it, don't read it. Or place him on ignore. Resorting to mean spirited posts isn't necessary and I hope Rob isn't offended by your vitriol. He's a valued member here, I for one wouldn't want him to be reluctant to post with his style, willingness to help, and generosity.
+1

I've recently swapped my plugs around 10k and they were a little blackish but I've always ran 93 octane, out of habit really but I've noticed that it seems to stink less with 93. or i've gotten use to it Thanks for the idea i'll try saving some cash on the cheap stuff and see what it does!

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post #15 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken View Post
On behalf of those who enjoy and appreciate Rob's posts and sharing his expertise with the board, stfu sylas.

Access to google and wikipedia do not endow us with the diagnostic skills necessary to solve some of the problems we've read about here.

Rob's posts are highly valued here, on the 919 maillist, the Hornet's nest and other places.

Nothing in his post above or any others I've read have anything that even borders on being, "insulting, unnecessary, and intimidating".

If anything, it is your post that is guilty of the things you accuse him of. If you don't like it, don't read it. Or place him on ignore. Resorting to mean spirited posts isn't necessary and I hope Rob isn't offended by your vitriol. He's a valued member here, I for one wouldn't want him to be reluctant to post with his style, willingness to help, and generosity.
+1 Ken. I have been lucky enough to be surrounded by some pretty smart people most of my life, so I feel I can spot the smart ones when I see them, and I think Rob is about as sharp as they come. I think sylas must have had a bad night or something.

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post #16 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
Hmmmm .... I just pulled the #1 plug out of my '02 (feeling guilty about the original plugs at 30,000 miles) and not only does it not need replacement, it's also a very light tan color on the center insulator, either meaning it's not very very very very very rich or current fuels hide very very very very very rich very very very very very well!

Rob
Very Very Very well does not have much to do with very very very rich unless you have an A/F ratio. I have had spark plugs look horrible on a great running bike and horrible looking plugs on one of the best running bikes I have owned.

I have ridding with several 919s and from the smell when they generate, I would not call it lean. Rich = a cooler running machine and that is not alway bad, but then again it is not optimal either.

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post #17 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondaf4iguy View Post
Very Very Very well does not have much to do with very very very rich unless you have an A/F ratio. I have had spark plugs look horrible on a great running bike and horrible looking plugs on one of the best running bikes I have owned.

I have ridding with several 919s and from the smell when they generate, I would not call it lean. Rich = a cooler running machine and that is not alway bad, but then again it is not optimal either.
That was my point. It's pretty easy to spot a rich running machine with your nose, and this one has been rich since day one. The plugs indicate they are burning what is around them, but that is not a true indication of what is coming out of the exhaust. Unburnt fuel can escape and not foul the plugs.

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post #18 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 10:11 AM
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sylas said, "I apologize to the other folks on the board, but someone has to say it:"

Well sylas, a pre-apology is no apology and "nobody" has to say it: That's the worst display of manners I've seen in a long time. I'm sure you see nothing wrong with road rage, dangerous driving, drowning kittens, and you're probably a poor tipper.

Rob, please don't let the unsustained outburst of "one" have the least effect on the kindness you show in passing on your obvious vast amount of knowledge to the rest of us. Please be assured it is appreciated.

My Powercommander, coupled with a CBR900RR header, has made my bike feel more responsive and cured the "jacket stink" I hear little about these days. I'm always a little surprised that they are still listed as $279 on the Dan Kyle site. Well worth the money.

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post #19 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 10:13 AM
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Worst display of manners? Then you accuse him of thing....

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post #20 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 10:30 AM
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sylas, I apologize. hondaf4iguy is right in that I accused you of "thing"? Yours was not the worst display of manners I've seen lately. I've seen two others worse.

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post #21 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 10:54 AM
 
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I had to say that because I am tired of the "holier than though" crap spewed out.

I once posted a question about my issues with the FI system and all RT did was out and out flame the thread. Nothing to do with the issue.

As far as I am concerned I will take my 15 years as a professional aircraft, industrial, and automotive mechanic and go home. What the hell, I didn't learn anything in two years of A&P school or in the 15 years on the job anyway. I don't know much about riding either since I grew up in riding family and have been on two wheels with and engine since I was four.

So, implying that someone is an idiot is not bad manners? It always has been in my book.

I'm calling mister know it all out on his BS as nobody else seems to. I've only been around since april but the posts are deteriorating on a daily basis. Good natured ribbing is one thing. Being a posturing a-hole is different.

As for you gramps - I'm calling your ass out too. That's some f'd up things to say when you don't know me from Adam. I referred to specific behavior. You're a generalizing butt head.

I hope you realize you just contradicted the guru with you remark about the PCIII curing jacket stink. Shame on you for the blasphemy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by support_six View Post
sylas said, "I apologize to the other folks on the board, but someone has to say it:"

Well sylas, a pre-apology is no apology and "nobody" has to say it: That's the worst display of manners I've seen in a long time. I'm sure you see nothing wrong with road rage, dangerous driving, drowning kittens, and you're probably a poor tipper.

Rob, please don't let the unsustained outburst of "one" have the least effect on the kindness you show in passing on your obvious vast amount of knowledge to the rest of us. Please be assured it is appreciated.

My Powercommander, coupled with a CBR900RR header, has made my bike feel more responsive and cured the "jacket stink" I hear little about these days. I'm always a little surprised that they are still listed as $279 on the Dan Kyle site. Well worth the money.

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post #22 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 10:57 AM
 
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By the way. Have fun. I'm gone.

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post #23 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 11:25 AM
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sylas, I didn't contradict Rob. I said my Powercommander and rerouted exhaust system cured the jacket stink problem. The Powercommander leaned out the fuel/air mixture and the header moved it lower in the airstream.

I'm sure you have impeccable credentials in your field. Many of us do. On a forum dealing with your chosen field, you're probably the "king". ...but Rob seems to have the upper hand on this forum.

You probably have a right to be angry at what I said, I know I was upset with your post about Rob also. My having invoked the often used and Supreme Court Affirmed "He Hit Me First" defense was over the top. I would ask you to cool off (as I'm doing), don't go, and I'll go back on my meds - I promise!

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post #24 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 11:40 AM
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Alright already, enough blah blah blah, you better get the bike finished by Friday or I'm going to knock some skulls!!!

BTW
I have no idea what this has to do with the thread...

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post #25 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 11:52 AM
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Holy crap, this post went south.

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post #26 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 12:24 PM
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Well to add to the insults ( I don't even know who is saying what to whom ) "All you guys are big jerk faces!" lol.

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post #27 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by support_six View Post
sylas, I apologize. hondaf4iguy is right in that I accused you of "thing"? Yours was not the worst display of manners I've seen lately. I've seen two others worse.
Sorry I missed an 's' on the end of things. So now you are the king of spelling? So am I now bad manners bacause I simply think you are no better than a pot calling a kettle black?

I love it when people get internet muscles! Talking crap about people they don't know is certainly a great way to make your own self esteem get higher!

However after reading your last post, I see it is nothing more than some frustration being vented. So no biggie.

Just keep everything in perspective!

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post #28 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 04:55 PM
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hondaf4iguy, feel better now? To extend this any longer would be bad manners for all.

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post #29 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 05:00 PM
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I do. I would have let it be if you would have just said you were in a cranky mood. But since you decided you were tready to take more people on, I have not problem defending myself.

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post #30 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 05:12 PM
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post #31 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 05:12 PM
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/end derail

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post #32 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 05:31 PM
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I smoked an R1 today in a 70mph roll-on up to 140.
With airplane gas.
Yee haw!

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post #33 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 05:38 PM
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I smoked an R1 today in a 70mph roll-on up to 140.
With airplane gas.
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post #34 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foowee123 View Post
Would I get any better performance, or better gas to air ratio with a power
comander111 on 919 with stock cans? I am still burning a rich mixture on my 919. I have changed plugs, put 93 octane in. I have put in fuel injection
cleaner. Rode it long and hard. Most of my ride time is at 70 mph, for a 25 mile comute to work in the morning, then 25 miles home. My plugs are still
getting fowled, and I can see black smoke coming from the pipes when I rev it up.
I don't know about the other problems, but my bike ran rich in stock configuration. When I added the PCIII, and finally got it set-up right, using the map from the Power Commander site, the bike ran smoother, throttle response was much better, and the "stink" was gone. Performance-wise, it was probably the best mod I did to the bike when I had it.

If I was you, I would try to clean out the fuel injection without that injector cleaner crap. I was told by a few people that in a car it may work, but it's no good for a motorcycle. Run 87 or 89 octane, but stay away from 93. It's no good for the bike. Add a power commander once everything is running smooth. If you have any problems after that, there are numerous people on here that will help.

My .02. Hope it helps.

-Joe
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post #35 of 52 Old 07-01-2007, 06:22 PM
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stock setup is very very rich

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post #36 of 52 Old 07-02-2007, 06:41 AM
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I'd like to be rich and I'm no longer very lean. My guess is that it has nothing to do with a PCIII just lack of commision and too much food.




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post #37 of 52 Old 07-02-2007, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken View Post
On behalf of those who enjoy and appreciate Rob's posts and sharing his expertise with the board, stfu sylas.

Access to google and wikipedia do not endow us with the diagnostic skills necessary to solve some of the problems we've read about here.

Rob's posts are highly valued here, on the 919 maillist, the Hornet's nest and other places.

Nothing in his post above or any others I've read have anything that even borders on being, "insulting, unnecessary, and intimidating".

If anything, it is your post that is guilty of the things you accuse him of. If you don't like it, don't read it. Or place him on ignore. Resorting to mean spirited posts isn't necessary and I hope Rob isn't offended by your vitriol. He's a valued member here, I for one wouldn't want him to be reluctant to post with his style, willingness to help, and generosity.
I have to agree with Ken on this one. Rob is knowledgable and his posts usually contain valuable information. There are a few people on this board that post technically useful information like this. I will say that the other person that comes to mind (won't name names) is arrogant and goes a bit far sometimes. Having said that, the info they provide is still very valuable and I enjoy their posts.

It's all good, go ride your bikes and be happy.

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post #38 of 52 Old 07-02-2007, 06:36 PM
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I have to agree with Ken on this one. Rob is knowledgable and his posts usually contain valuable information. There are a few people on this board that post technically useful information like this. I will say that the other person that comes to mind (won't name names) is arrogant and goes a bit far sometimes. Having said that, the info they provide is still very valuable and I enjoy their posts.

It's all good, go ride your bikes and be happy.
Absolutely! I took the time a while back to even PM Rob how much I appreciated his posts and his technical expertise, and furthermore the manner in which he posted was most welcome....unlike that arrogant one you refer to . In the end, it's all good. The exhaust on the 919 sure does leave a stink, though, and the PCIII did help with the DK map..

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post #39 of 52 Old 07-02-2007, 09:49 PM
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Wow. As a still new member to this forum, I hadn't seen the darker side of things surface yet. Have now.

I have certainly appreciated everyone's helpful comments and advice to all the thoughts and questions I've posted, so I know that overall this is a good karma place.

Life's short, 919's are good, fouled of plug and otherwise.

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post #40 of 52 Old 07-03-2007, 12:21 AM
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I'd like to be rich and I'm no longer very lean.

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