Power commander who? - Wrist Twisters
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 19 Old 05-17-2006, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 202
Rep Power: 0
 
Power commander who?

Can someone explain the function of the Power Commander for me? Are they specific to each bike/exhaust combination? Are the "maps" something that can be programmed into any unit, to make it useable on any bike with any exhaust system?

I am picking up cans for my 919 and have been told that the companion hardware to them would be a power commander, but nobody has been able to give an acceptable explaination so far as to what it does. I know it maps the fuel delivery, but is that really necessary with a fuel-injected system that reads and adjusts to its own needs?

Thanks for helping.

ortonomics is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 Old 05-17-2006, 10:36 PM
Removed User 1
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
The PC is a fuel injection and ignition timing adjustment unit that plugs "inline" with the bikes' stock ECU. The PC uses original equipment style connectors so that no splicing or cutting of the harness is required. Changes are made to the bikes fuel and ignition curves via the PC's onboard microprocessor. Using this technology we are able to offer a large area of adjustment without making any permanent changes to the bikes' ECU (electronic control unit). Removing the PC returns the bike to its previous stock condition. The Power Commander can be ordered preprogrammed with a your choice of several settings, based on the modifications to your bike. The unit also comes complete with software and cable link that allows you to change between different maps or make adjustments to a map file.

post #3 of 19 Old 05-17-2006, 10:40 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 202
Rep Power: 0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyresto
The PC is a fuel injection and ignition timing adjustment unit that plugs "inline" with the bikes' stock ECU. The PC uses original equipment style connectors so that no splicing or cutting of the harness is required. Changes are made to the bikes fuel and ignition curves via the PC's onboard microprocessor. Using this technology we are able to offer a large area of adjustment without making any permanent changes to the bikes' ECU (electronic control unit). Removing the PC returns the bike to its previous stock condition. The Power Commander can be ordered preprogrammed with a your choice of several settings, based on the modifications to your bike. The unit also comes complete with software and cable link that allows you to change between different maps or make adjustments to a map file.
Yea, yea... I read all that from the website, but I guess my real question was, do I NEED it?

I am already spending enough on the exhaust, and the PC is like $350. If I don't need that thing, I don't want it.

ortonomics is offline  
post #4 of 19 Old 05-17-2006, 11:01 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 89
Rep Power: 0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ortonomics
Yea, yea... I read all that from the website, but I guess my real question was, do I NEED it?

I am already spending enough on the exhaust, and the PC is like $350. If I don't need that thing, I don't want it.
You don't need it. I run Arrow Ti slip ons on my 919 and runs like a dream without PC..

flatovercrest is offline  
post #5 of 19 Old 05-17-2006, 11:49 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 193
Rep Power: 0
 
I disagree...YOU NEED IT! Especially if you are fitting new cans. IMO it is THE most important mod for the 9. It smooths out the throttle range, significantly improves throttle response, and allows you to customize your bikes mapping to your own liking as well as to your individual needs as far as altitude, temperature and equipment. You can get away without it, but there are many drawbacks. If the bike ends up running rich, not only will you get alot of popping on enging braking, but you could damage the cylinders by getting fuel into the fresh oil supply. Too lean and you start running hot which is just plain bad for all the engine components.

My advice is to get them both. I know it is pricey but it is worth every penny. Wait till you have saved enough for both or buy the pc first. Check out 919.org and see what LDH has to say about it. Without a doubt the most important mod, and coupled with a quality exhaust like sato, you WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED! I am sure the experts (m51142, LDH, ratdog, etc) will back me up on this one. Flatovercrest may very well have had good results without the pc, but everyone's results vary depending on the components and the area. Also, I bet it would be even better with a pc. Sorry for the long thread, just wanted to give you all the facts...hope this helps...not the wallet, the bike...good luck!

blackbetty is offline  
post #6 of 19 Old 05-18-2006, 02:54 AM
Fool in the Rain
 
HondaJim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Posts: 10,286
Rep Power: 1
 
Garage

Awards Showcase
Donation Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Extraordinary Ride Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 4

I am not sure about the RC, but the 919 fuel injection system only has an inlet air temperature sensor. Therefore changing pipes, which generally increases airflow, does not lead to the fuel injection system "adjusting" itself, and a lean condition may result. I am not sure of all the technical jargon (2D, 3D, etc.), but I believe an outlet gas sensor and/or mass airflow sensor would be required for the system to compensate.
The maps are specific to the bike and any mods performed that effect airflow. (i.e. air filter, pipe, etc.)

"Towards the end of the vid, it looks like she may have had a bafflectomy." - MarylandMike
HondaJim is offline  
post #7 of 19 Old 05-18-2006, 03:36 AM
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 214
Rep Power: 0
 
stuff like this I miss motorush... there were like 20 threads covering this stuff

go to wayback.com and look up motorush

that goes for all the newbies

typhoonblue919 is offline  
post #8 of 19 Old 05-18-2006, 04:22 AM
Legatus Legionis
 
SV650s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The woods of CT
Posts: 9,680
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Community Leadership Donation Donation Community Leadership 
Total Awards: 6

I really don't want to get into a long winded explination of the pros and cons of the Power Commander. This subject has been well documented by LDH and should be read by all. You can get away without a PC for what ever reason you choose to justify but I can assure you that throttle response and overall performance at different ambient temperatures can and will be improved.

SV650s is offline  
post #9 of 19 Old 05-18-2006, 06:00 AM
Site Founder
 
jetblast10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 9,698
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Extraordinary Ride Trackday Recognition Extraordinary Ride 
Total Awards: 6

The PC unit itself is the hardware that allows you to alter your air/fuel ratios at different RPM and throttle position ranges. The maps are the software that run on the PC.

Various exhaust systems flow exhaust gases differently than others, the 919 runs rich from the factory, the PC and map will allow you to fine tune the air/fuel ratios - essentially richening (more fuel vs air) or leaning (more air vs fuel) the mixture and creating a smoother power curve throughout the power range = idle to redline.

Optimizing the air to fuel ratio throughout that range helps eliminate hesitation, flat power spots, etc.

Does on map fit all? No. Bikes in different parts of the world, at different altitudes, climates, with different exhausts are best optimized by a custom map which is created by a trained technician using a dyno and sensors that takes measurements and report what's happing with A/F ratios, burnt exhaust gases and power & torque curves. Finding a truely good technician who does this correctly and thoroughly is difficult and dyno time is expensive. Most of the technicians working in the average dealership don't do this work correctly.

LDH, Dan Kyle are one very trustworthy source who create excellent maps correctly. Sure there are others out there but just because one guy says he's an expert doesn't make him an expert. Dan and LDH are experts at it. They experiment with different exhausts, find the best balance and provide those maps for a small donation or sometimes free of charge. Although it's nice to show some appreciation for a free map. Custom maps can cost hundreds of dollars to create.

jetblast10 is offline  
post #10 of 19 Old 05-18-2006, 07:32 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 202
Rep Power: 0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetblast10
The PC unit itself is the hardware that allows you to alter your air/fuel ratios at different RPM and throttle position ranges. The maps are the software that run on the PC.

Various exhaust systems flow exhaust gases differently than others, the 919 runs rich from the factory, the PC and map will allow you to fine tune the air/fuel ratios - essentially richening (more fuel vs air) or leaning (more air vs fuel) the mixture and creating a smoother power curve throughout the power range = idle to redline.

Optimizing the air to fuel ratio throughout that range helps eliminate hesitation, flat power spots, etc.

Does on map fit all? No. Bikes in different parts of the world, at different altitudes, climates, with different exhausts are best optimized by a custom map which is created by a trained technician using a dyno and sensors that takes measurements and report what's happing with A/F ratios, burnt exhaust gases and power & torque curves. Finding a truely good technician who does this correctly and thoroughly is difficult and dyno time is expensive. Most of the technicians working in the average dealership don't do this work correctly.

LDH, Dan Kyle are one very trustworthy source who create excellent maps correctly. Sure there are others out there but just because one guy says he's an expert doesn't make him an expert. Dan and LDH are experts at it. They experiment with different exhausts, find the best balance and provide those maps for a small donation or sometimes free of charge. Although it's nice to show some appreciation for a free map. Custom maps can cost hundreds of dollars to create.
So you are saying that a map for a 919/Sato combination with stock air filter would be already available, and wouldn't require a dyno test for my specific bike?

I do have a guy in town here who specializes in dyno testing so that would be an option, although again I am not going to spend alot for this muffler!(sorry, I had to).

ortonomics is offline  
post #11 of 19 Old 05-18-2006, 07:46 AM
Site Founder
 
jetblast10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 9,698
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Wrist Twisters Event Attendance Extraordinary Ride Trackday Recognition Extraordinary Ride 
Total Awards: 6

goto www.919.org click on MODS click on PCIII Maps and you can download a .zip file for:

New version Sato Slip-ons (smaller core) 919satonew1.map
First Generation Sato Slip-ons (large core) sato919-1c.map
Stock Exhaust Map Revision 3 mw9193.map
Stock Exhaust Map Revision 2 mw9192.map
Moriwaki Slip-ons Map mw919mori4.map

jetblast10 is offline  
post #12 of 19 Old 05-18-2006, 07:56 AM
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 193
Rep Power: 0
 
I also have three maps for sato/stock air filter that are good. Two are the same as on that website and another from Dan Kyle via LDH. There are many resources for that combo, everyone is usually willing to share. I am also getting a personal dyno this summer and will post up another sato map. I just need to find the right guy to do it. I got the pc before the satos and just using the stock map listed above made a world of difference.

I do have to add one thing. I see you are located in AZ. Your results may vary because you are in a dryer, warmer climate. I think there is someone here from Vegas with that combo, if not here, he is on Hornet's Nest. Not sure. Just try the ones listed above, ask for someone to share, and see how it works. It will definitely be better, but if you want even more, get a custom map later on.

blackbetty is offline  
post #13 of 19 Old 05-18-2006, 10:38 AM
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 161
Rep Power: 0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ortonomics
So you are saying that a map for a 919/Sato combination with stock air filter would be already available, and wouldn't require a dyno test for my specific bike?
Custom PC maps are available on the powercommander.com website. Provided both by manufacturers and 'us', the people that customize their bike and submit their custom maps. Check there to see what's available... there's quite a few.

bigassbertha is offline  
post #14 of 19 Old 05-18-2006, 12:19 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 858
Rep Power: 0
 
If you're not interested in your bike performing at it's peak then just get the pipe and be done with it. It will only make it run a little richer down low anyway. If you care about performance get it mapped by someone who knows how to tune.

NewRedRider is offline  
post #15 of 19 Old 05-18-2006, 06:54 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 202
Rep Power: 0
 
hey thanks for all your help everyone!

ortonomics is offline  
post #16 of 19 Old 05-18-2006, 07:06 PM
INFIDEL
 
Rob919's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,313
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
BOTM Wrist Twisters Event Attendance 
Total Awards: 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by ortonomics
Yea, yea... I read all that from the website, but I guess my real question was, do I NEED it?

I am already spending enough on the exhaust, and the PC is like $350. If I don't need that thing, I don't want it.
Check out Ebay. I see them there for under $300. Just do a search for "Honda 919 commander"

Rob919 is offline  
post #17 of 19 Old 05-18-2006, 08:09 PM
I am BATMAN!!!
 
justintyme73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ft. Collins CO
Posts: 4,660
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Outstanding Restoration Donation Donation 
Total Awards: 3

kyleusa.com-they will load whatever map you ask for, less than 300 bux if I remember right

justintyme73 is offline  
post #18 of 19 Old 05-18-2006, 11:30 PM
The Guy passing you...
 
Evad101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 1,092
Rep Power: 1
 

Awards Showcase
Donation Donation BOTM Donation 
Total Awards: 5

You want another opinion, go ask Marc Salvisberg from www.factorypro.com what he thinks about the PC. Then ask him what he thinks about Dynojet Dyno's.

I dont run one on my RC51 race bike. The only thing I have done to the motor, is, well nothing, other than the standard stub PAIR block of plates, flapper, slip-ons, etc. The PC does nothing for the top end of a bike and can often be detrimental by causing ignition scatter.

I can not vouch for them on a street bike as my street ride is carbed!

-Dave



"I live my life in a confused haze only to be interrupted by moments of brilliance..."

Evad101 is offline  
post #19 of 19 Old 05-19-2006, 07:15 AM
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 193
Rep Power: 0
 
That is another opinion, but for another situation. I agree, for that bike with a carb, may not be the best option. There are so many better ways of tuning a carbed bike. Fot the 919, with EFI, the results are hard to contest.

blackbetty is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wrist Twisters forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome