PING Ripper - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 19 Old 12-17-2009, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
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PING Ripper

Hey bro I just found an email of yours on an account I rarely check dated like back in June. Had a dyno chart & a map of your 919.

I replied to the email & it bounced so I figured I would jump on here real quick.

Give me a shout if you get a chance I need some more details before I can offer any real suggestions or options

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post #2 of 19 Old 12-17-2009, 05:18 PM
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Don't worry about it man, I got it worked out and all is good. Thanks!

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post #3 of 19 Old 12-17-2009, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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Are ya sure? I couldn't quite tell exactly where that A/F was reading, but it looked a bit high across the board.
I'm also curious as to the engine temp during the mapping process

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post #4 of 19 Old 12-17-2009, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
Are ya sure? I couldn't quite tell exactly where that A/F was reading, but it looked a bit high across the board.
I'm also curious as to the engine temp during the mapping process
Yea, I had him lean toward the safe side of the A/F and the engine temp was... Ummm... Hotter than crap. I couldn't have picked a worse day for dyno runs. I believe the ambient temp was around 90 and w/High Humidity. I'm sure that some of the guys running that map would like to see what you can do with it, so if there is other info I can provide for better results let me know.

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post #5 of 19 Old 12-17-2009, 06:01 PM
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I think I might soon be one of those interested. I have Rippers exhaust and was planning to use his map.

What can be done to improve a map without the bike and a dyno?

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post #6 of 19 Old 12-17-2009, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catonsvilleguy View Post
I think I might soon be one of those interested. I have Rippers exhaust and was planning to use his map.

What can be done to improve a map without the bike and a dyno?
there really is nothing wrong with the map, it's just on the Safe side of things. I wanted it safe for the bike yet give better performance. It is just enough that you can play with it towards the leaner side and know your not going to burn things up.

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post #7 of 19 Old 12-18-2009, 09:40 AM Thread Starter
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I was thinking the other way around as the dyno chart A/F looked like it is fairly lean already (although it was really hard to read the hash marks) & you could go a little bit richer to get more ponies and a smoother throttle response. The 919 likes being loaded up a little in key areas down low to keep some fuel burning in the cylinder during closed throttle operations. That extra load on the motor aids in smoothing out the roughness between shifts & also alleviates some extra driveline lash

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post #8 of 19 Old 12-18-2009, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
I was thinking the other way around as the dyno chart A/F looked like it is fairly lean already (although it was really hard to read the hash marks) & you could go a little bit richer to get more ponies and a smoother throttle response. The 919 likes being loaded up a little in key areas down low to keep some fuel burning in the cylinder during closed throttle operations. That extra load on the motor aids in smoothing out the roughness between shifts & also alleviates some extra driveline lash
I'd love to test that but I'll have to leave it to the new owner.

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post #9 of 19 Old 12-18-2009, 11:30 AM
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The comments about it looking toward the lean side of things is worrisome to me.

I think I'll try the Sato map I already have loaded first and see how it runs. No idea if that would be leaner or richer than Ripper's map though.

LDH, I would be happy to try any customizations you think might be worthwhile and testable on my butt dyno.

I don't have the exhaust installed yet - maybe this weekend - while it snows. They are predicting something like a foot which is a lot for this area.

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post #10 of 19 Old 12-18-2009, 11:47 AM
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id like to test it out to. i have a yosh rs-3 so i believe my flow may be a bit more constricted and have a bit more backpressure than rips gp style can.

BOOM CHICKA
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post #11 of 19 Old 12-21-2009, 07:46 PM
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LDH,

Would you avoid running Ripper's map? Do you think the Dan Kyle Sato map would be a safer starting point with Ripper's exhaust (900rr header, black diamond can)?

Know any good dyno tuners in the Baltimore-Washington area?

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post #12 of 19 Old 12-22-2009, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catonsvilleguy View Post
LDH,

Would you avoid running Ripper's map? Do you think the Dan Kyle Sato map would be a safer starting point with Ripper's exhaust (900rr header, black diamond can)?

Know any good dyno tuners in the Baltimore-Washington area?
I think it funny how one comment about the map being on the lean side turns into the map is no good? That map is 100% safe, what he is saying is that he could improve on it... And that was why I emailed him in the first place.

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post #13 of 19 Old 12-22-2009, 07:11 AM
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I can vouch. I have run rippers map 1 and 2 steps down to the lean side with no adverse effects. I step lean actually seems to work a little better with my setup. Thanks again my fellow 260'er

BOOM CHICKA
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post #14 of 19 Old 12-22-2009, 10:04 AM
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Whoa, back up the turnip truck!

I never said the map is no good. Let's not get all sensitive.

It's well known that running overly lean can be harmful to the motor. Not sure how lean we're talking here but given that the map was done under less than ideal conditions and the A/F is at least somewhat on the lean side, some caution seems prudent. I tend to be more cautious than most people I know when it comes to doing stuff that could be potentially harmful to my vehicles.

And with a different setup (a la gert260), the same map may not be lean at all. So results with a different setup are not necessarily relevant.

Let's keep it rational

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post #15 of 19 Old 12-22-2009, 10:47 AM Thread Starter
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I'm really busy today guys, but let me see if I can touch the key points real quick.


1. Yes it is possible to damage the motor from making a map too lean. The bike would be running like crap though giving a very apparent warning that something was amiss before that happened

2. The other issue is the Fi itself which can literally be all over the board. With carbs you pretty much know where the fuel is going to be added and how much as intake velocity increases. 3D Fi mapping can be quite literally all over the map. Lean at 5500 at 4000 rpm & then rich as hell at 5750 rpm at 4100rpm and compensating for that kind of variance is challenging in some cases. There is a lot of interpolation of values going on in every map.

3. NEVER use the buttons on the face of the Powercommander. That completely moots the entire premise of owning a Powercommander in the first place... The new PC-V have that feature removed because of all the problems it creates with the end users

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post #16 of 19 Old 12-22-2009, 11:45 AM
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i went outside just to press a button on my pc3......



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post #17 of 19 Old 12-24-2009, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catonsvilleguy View Post
Whoa, back up the turnip truck!

I never said the map is no good. Let's not get all sensitive.

It's well known that running overly lean can be harmful to the motor. Not sure how lean we're talking here but given that the map was done under less than ideal conditions and the A/F is at least somewhat on the lean side, some caution seems prudent. I tend to be more cautious than most people I know when it comes to doing stuff that could be potentially harmful to my vehicles.

And with a different setup (a la gert260), the same map may not be lean at all. So results with a different setup are not necessarily relevant.

Let's keep it rational
your right and I didn't mean it like that. It was more of a general statement... they thing about the internet is you couldn't detect the tone it was "thought" in, which leaves you to assume the worse. Sorry, I truly wasn't trying to be sensitive about it.

Back on track

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post #18 of 19 Old 12-24-2009, 09:10 PM
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Not sure I want to bring this up here but here goes. The PCIII can be upgraded via soft/firmware to have the accelerator pump feature that richens up the mixture momentarily when you open the throttle. I'm wondering if anybody has played with this in conjunction with a dyno tuned map.

Given LDH's comment about smoothing out the throttle response by going a little richer, I was wondering if the accelerator pump feature might be another way to get the same effect.

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post #19 of 19 Old 12-24-2009, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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The AP function is a double edged sword. It does improve performance on many bikes eepcially larger displacement twins, but it also makes the on/off throttle situation worse in most cases which is not a good thing especially on the 919 as it has a fairly bad case of driveline lash to begin with.

It is also important to note that most current ECU's have that AP function already built into them to some degree and that adding even more fuel after you open the throttle is just redundant.

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