pilot power vs 2ct - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 08:35 AM Thread Starter
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pilot power vs 2ct

soo im getting comfortable to the point on the 919 where i think the tires are becoming the weak link. on my last bike, sv650, i always ran pilot powers and loved them. just curious if anyone here has ran regular pilot powers and the 2ct power back to back. is it worth spending the extra money for the 2ct. iv heard the transition on the 2ct between compounds while leaning can be funny sometimes, but i have no experience with multi compound tires. so, any advice would be appreciated

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post #2 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 09:28 AM
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post #3 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 09:53 AM
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I have ran them back to back on many occasions. The 2CT version of the Pilot Power in my opinion simply wears out faster than the original Pilot Powers and I have seen no change to my lap times whatsoever.

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post #4 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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lol completely different opinions. is it the sides that wear out faster or the whole tire in general? i wont be doing track with this bike, but "spirited" rides are always in order

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post #5 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 10:09 AM
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I run the Road 2's that have the 2CT 2 compound technology... and LOVE EM they grip like god.

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post #6 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 10:32 AM
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The sides wear out quicker.

I am a test rider and track instructor so overall I do very little street riding, but if I can't tell an appreciable difference (other than the rate of wear) between the regular PP's & the PP 2CT's under controlled track conditions then I seriously doubt many others will be able to give a more accurate comparison based on street riding.

Having said that the Michelin Pilot Powers are my favorite street tire and have been for years. They warm up quickly, wear decent for a sport tire and offer ample grip in all conditions. I used them for track instructing because they are capable of very quick lap times without drama, they do not require tire warmers for heat or longevity and they work very well in wet conditions. The front PP is also one of the best tires to start to learn how to push the limits of the tires because it offers soo much feedback & predictable behaviour.

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post #7 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 10:44 AM
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I know this may not be what you are looking for but...

I ran the Pilot Road 2 then the Pilot Powers. Wear was great on Road 2s. Later this year I should be able to comment on the wear comparison with the Powers.

As far as grip goes, I can tell you right now that I am not a proficient enough rider to push my bike or tires far enough to matter between those two. I have maybe 1 mm of chicken strip on both sets of tires.

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post #8 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmurphy84 View Post

As far as grip goes, I can tell you right now that I am not a proficient enough rider to push my bike or tires far enough to matter between those two. I have maybe 1 mm of chicken strip on both sets of tires.

Well it sounds like you are pretty damn proficient to me as well as prudent!

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post #9 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 11:24 AM
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I don't know anyone who has ascertained 1mm of chicken strips on their front tire on the street.

That is really heeled over.

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post #10 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousmike View Post
I don't know anyone who has ascertained 1mm of chicken strips on their front tire on the street.
[/img]
i had that on my sv with pilot powers, but i ran a 120/65 up front. well, thanks for the tips people, i think ill stick with my standard pilot powers that i know and love so well. the deals over at jakewilson are out of control too

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post #11 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousmike View Post
I don't know anyone who has ascertained 1mm of chicken strips on their front tire on the street.
It's not that difficult really


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post #12 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 11:42 AM Thread Starter
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lol nice brake lines, levers, frame sliders. . . . and stock blinkers!!!!!!!

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post #13 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 11:53 AM Thread Starter
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alright, just ordered the Powers, $155 shipped to my door

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post #14 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 12:05 PM
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lol nice brake lines, levers, frame sliders. . . . and stock blinkers!!!!!!!
Yea I'm not usually one for spending money on poser crap... The stock fenders & blinkers work just fine & are available super cheap if I ever need to replace one...






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post #15 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousmike View Post
I don't know anyone who has ascertained 1mm of chicken strips on their front tire on the street.

That is really heeled over.
When I said both sets, I meant on my Power Rear and Road 2 Rear. The front on both is about a half inch.

I took my Pilot Road 2 set off just before going down to The Smoky Mountains. I didn't want to get down there and need to buy tires so I bought the Pilot Powers and mounted them a few days before my trip. I saved the Road 2s because they still have about 1,000 mile of commuting or light back road bashing on them.

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post #16 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
It's not that difficult really
On the street, for street riders who don't ride the track a few times a year, yes it is "difficult".

Unless you have proper hanging off technique on the bike, you'll likely be dragging the frame (well, pick something hard) to get the bike far enough over to get the front that well covered.

Even if you're hanging off the bike, you're still likely to be dragging something getting the front that worked.

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post #17 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 12:17 PM Thread Starter
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NICE bikes LDH, but i still think the big blinkers and fender need to go lol

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post #18 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 02:58 PM
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well, this guy is running Pilot Power 2ct
YouTube - scraping pegs on mt. lemmon, honda 919

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post #19 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 03:23 PM
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I scrape my pegs ALL the time with my Pilot Road 2's ... no track riding... 90% twisty canyon riding.
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post #20 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 03:33 PM
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I've never understood it...but why do I see a lot of tires that seem to be mounted backwards. Like ^^ ??

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post #21 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 03:44 PM
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nd4spd -- yep you're using a lot (all) of that front.

Sure seems like I'm using a lot lean angle -- hanging off a bit, nibble the footpegs infrequently... but my front tire has a solid 1" of shine.

I guess I got a way to go.

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post #22 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
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I've never understood it...but why do I see a lot of tires that seem to be mounted backwards. Like ^^ ??
i never understood why the fronts go the "wrong way" You would think you would want the v's pointing forward so that water is evacuated out.... but thats the way they were designed... hell even the bridge stone cruiser tires on the vtx the front is the same.

I have only ever had the rear slip on me once when i didnt expect it... but honestly im 99% sure there was something in the road, cus my buddy who was in front of me slipped in the same exact spot.

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post #23 of 53 Old 05-20-2010, 04:46 PM
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I read it's to break up the water for the rear tire better, that the tread patterns work together to form a whole. One of the reasons the tire folk say not to mix-match brands I suppose... I don't know though, just spreading rumors.

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post #24 of 53 Old 05-21-2010, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamjayp View Post
I read it's to break up the water for the rear tire better, that the tread patterns work together to form a whole. One of the reasons the tire folk say not to mix-match brands I suppose... I don't know though, just spreading rumors.
No rumors being spread, you are exactly right. I have a cousin who spent a summer as an intern for a big name tire manufacture (name excapes me right now, but I want to say Dunlop). He sat and help designed tire tread patterns and the effect they have on either the car or motorcycle. They start out with stock blank pop a pattern into a computer and it then gets cut out on a water jet type devise and of to the test track they go. Once an acceptable pattern is selected it goes through computer testing to refine it. The process gets repeated till they think that have a good set of tires for what they wanted to design them for. Now "mix and match" might be fine for some people but after getting to know the process I won't mix and match, because Motorcycle tires are designed to work as a pair.

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post #25 of 53 Old 05-21-2010, 08:25 AM Thread Starter
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yeah i never understood why people mix and match, but it feels like every crotch rocket i see has completely bald tires or mis matched tires. if people want to risk their own life thats fine by me, but i prefer two matching, good treaded tires

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post #26 of 53 Old 05-21-2010, 03:07 PM
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now what would you guys think of mixin and matchin say a

Pilot Power 2CT up front... and a Pilot Road 2 in the rear? Very similar tread patterns, same manufacture... just different compound / compound layout.

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post #27 of 53 Old 05-21-2010, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
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yeah i never understood why people mix and match
I never understood why people wouldn't.

Sure, you could argue that certain tire sets are matched for a particular profile.

But my argument goes something like this:
For the typical street rider,
- by the time they replace their worn out tires, any new tires are going to feel great / different
10 they don't push their tires hard enough to notice any differences
20 goto 10

Your bike isn't suddenly going to handle like crap if you put a BT016 up front "for security" with the BT023 in the rear "for longevity."

I've ridden with people who make comments on the internet about tires being "sticky" or "slipping out on them" and once riding with them... how the hell is this person qualified to say anything about a tires stickiness?

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post #28 of 53 Old 05-21-2010, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousmike View Post

I've ridden with people who make comments on the internet about tires being "sticky" or "slipping out on them" and once riding with them... how the hell is this person qualified to say anything about a tires stickiness?
The vast majority of the time they aren't qualified...

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post #29 of 53 Old 05-21-2010, 04:44 PM
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well, this guy is running Pilot Power 2ct
YouTube - scraping pegs on mt. lemmon, honda 919


heh thats my local road and its a blast... and It doesn't matter which tire I have on the PP or the pilot pure 2ct, scraping is easy, it just means that you're not getting your body off the bike enough. now if you are dragging body parts and then the pegs I'll be impressed.

That said the 2ct has a noticeably softer compound than the PP, its evident even when I ride up mt lemmon, I never did take the pp on the track though. I'll post up some pics of my tires after the track day here in a bit. I am also noticably faster going up Mt. lemmon now, but that probably has more to do with spending time on the track than tires.

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post #30 of 53 Old 05-21-2010, 05:02 PM
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after 8 -15 min sessions

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post #31 of 53 Old 05-21-2010, 05:24 PM Thread Starter
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how do you like the pures? havent really read any real world reviews on them yet. mainly just magazine stuff

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post #32 of 53 Old 05-21-2010, 05:43 PM
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I've had them on the bike for just under 2 month now, and probably have around 1,500 miles and a full track day. I commute daily and have done mountain rides frequently. So far they are wicked awesome. the profile is way different than the PP, much shorter sidewalls (they were a bitch to mount by hand). It does make it very easy to use the whole tire though. They feel very comfy and deliberate with traction. I'm still no where near their limits, my biggest problem is getting my body further off the bike to stop scraping the pegs on the tight fast corners.


But I'll be honest after this month I'll probably throw my PP that still have a little life in them on till track days start again in the fall here. They are a damned expensive tire. If you have the money and plan on riding hard, why not. But for your average canyon carver, I'd stick with the PP.

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post #33 of 53 Old 05-21-2010, 05:45 PM
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thoughts on best tire in the wet, please.

currently running PP2ct's. orig Qual's before that.

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post #34 of 53 Old 05-22-2010, 04:55 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I've had them on the bike for just under 2 month now, and probably have around 1,500 miles and a full track day. I commute daily and have done mountain rides frequently. So far they are wicked awesome. the profile is way different than the PP, much shorter sidewalls (they were a bitch to mount by hand). It does make it very easy to use the whole tire though. They feel very comfy and deliberate with traction. I'm still no where near their limits, my biggest problem is getting my body further off the bike to stop scraping the pegs on the tight fast corners.


But I'll be honest after this month I'll probably throw my PP that still have a little life in them on till track days start again in the fall here. They are a damned expensive tire. If you have the money and plan on riding hard, why not. But for your average canyon carver, I'd stick with the PP.
they look pretty sweet but the price is the main reason why i didnt even consider them. i cant justify paying that much for something that will last 1 summer if that. glad ya like em though

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post #35 of 53 Old 05-23-2010, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornet919 View Post
yeah i never understood why people mix and match, but it feels like every crotch rocket i see has completely bald tires or mis matched tires. if people want to risk their own life thats fine by me, but i prefer two matching, good treaded tires
Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousmike View Post
I never understood why people wouldn't.

Sure, you could argue that certain tire sets are matched for a particular profile.

But my argument goes something like this:
For the typical street rider,
- by the time they replace their worn out tires, any new tires are going to feel great / different
10 they don't push their tires hard enough to notice any differences
20 goto 10

Your bike isn't suddenly going to handle like crap if you put a BT016 up front "for security" with the BT023 in the rear "for longevity."

I've ridden with people who make comments on the internet about tires being "sticky" or "slipping out on them" and once riding with them... how the hell is this person qualified to say anything about a tires stickiness?
Of course, sticky and slipping out become crazy easy to detect in the rain. Which is what I was referring to. I think even a novice can tell when the tire is slipping in the rain... so for me, sticking to a matched pair is important, since I can and will ride in the rain...

But - I suppose you are right the "typical" street rider wouldn't be riding in the rain, and so a mismatched set is just fine, and of course, using that same point, a track rider could and probably would see some benefit to using different tires together in different ways. Anyway, to each their own. And let's not judge each other by our tire choices... after all, I've heard some people use Shinko's.


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post #36 of 53 Old 05-23-2010, 11:06 AM
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Ahh, fair weather riders. . . .

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post #37 of 53 Old 05-23-2010, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
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Of course, sticky and slipping out become crazy easy to detect in the rain. Which is what I was referring to. I think even a novice can tell when the tire is slipping in the rain... so for me, sticking to a matched pair is important, since I can and will ride in the rain...
For the record, my post was definitely not directed at any one in particular; certainly not you.

I'm making a global observation that I've seen over the years.

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post #38 of 53 Old 05-23-2010, 12:11 PM
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I'm now a staunch fair weather rider.

I was one of those guys who only had a bike. For a little over 10 years. 100,000 miles ridden on Seca 2, VFR and Hayabusa.

I'm making a certain point here about riding in the rain -- riding in the rain in traffic. And this is my bias.

The deal is, when I'm on my bike and it's raining and I'm in traffic, I want to keep a larger distance between me and the car in front of me. Braking capabilities are decreased in the wet, particularly for an average street rider on a motorcycle.

However, trying to keep that extra 1/2-1 second gap between you and the car in front of you simply invites other cars to cut in front of you, hence making the situation even worse.

Riding in the rain on a mostly empty road on a Sunday morning... that's a different story.

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post #39 of 53 Old 05-23-2010, 01:55 PM
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[QUOTE=curiousmike;398888]
However, trying to keep that extra 1/2-1 second gap between you and the car in front of you simply invites other cars to cut in front of you, hence making the situation even worse.[QUOTE]

Before I post what I really want to say I want to be clear. Are you saying you are adding a 1/2 to full second when it is raining on top of the 3 seconds you are already suppose to have?

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post #40 of 53 Old 05-23-2010, 02:41 PM
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Damn, I was all proud of my chicken strips till I opened this thread.

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