Penske Install...... - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 75 Old 10-20-2010, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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Penske Install......

The '919 Special' Penske showed up today..... its one nice looking shock for around $600....... As stated in the other threads, this is an upgraded 8900E w/ a remote reservoir set up just for the 919....(has ride height, rebound, preload, and custom sprung to your weight) --- the shock also comes with an upgrade coupon good for the next year, in the event you want to make it into the full-blown 8983. (This shock is about 85% there....with the remote already being installed)



The install ended up taking me a couple hours.....first recommendation, safety strap the front & rear of the bike over the rafters in your garage. (I tried the under the oil pan method that can be used on other bikes.....nope, just about lost the bike off the front/rear stands....not cool....)



The next thing I ended up doing....was to pull the rear tire off completely.... this left nice open access to get the old shock out....and the new shock in.



The shock bolted right up quickly at this point...... Thankfully --- the shock had enough clearance at the top... and required no cutting of the frame. (unlike a couple other peoples experience from this board)



After bolting up the shock..... the next time consuming thing was having to use the Dremmel to cut back un-needed plastic in the way. It took quite a bit of grinding/cutting to get the Penske remote cylinder to fit back into the original reservoir hole. Easy work.....just took time.....


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post #2 of 75 Old 10-20-2010, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
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The end result turned out great! Still need to set the sag and play with getting it set right...... can't wait for my next ride.






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post #3 of 75 Old 10-20-2010, 08:46 PM
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<--- Jealous.

:thumbsup:

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post #4 of 75 Old 10-20-2010, 08:46 PM
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Aw dude, you went all dorky and put their decal on your swingarm.

LOL

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post #5 of 75 Old 10-20-2010, 08:48 PM Thread Starter
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yeah.... haven't made up my mind on that yet...... I've always liked the 'de-badged' look.

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post #6 of 75 Old 10-20-2010, 08:53 PM
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What are the rearsets you're running?

And where do you get the doohickeys to plug the holes where the passenger grab bar went?

And what is the windscreen you're running?

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post #7 of 75 Old 10-20-2010, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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Used SATO's from the WT classifieds........
Also picked up the EBC waves in the classifieds for cheap. $100
Arrow can was a e-bay find from an '05 GSXR. $150

Grab bar holes are left open.... I like to bolt my Ventura rack on/off quickly....

Honda OEM screen..... painted flat black on the back side.

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post #8 of 75 Old 10-20-2010, 09:26 PM
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Cool - and you got a swingarm sticker too!

So - preload on the spring is the collar on the top - is there plenty of room to adjust this with the side cover removed? Hard to see in the photo when fitted.

There's a red knob at the bottom - ride height?

Where's the rebound adjuster?

And


Is there any point upgrading it to remote?


Looks fairly close to your 2B mid pipe - is the spring a larger diameter than the stock one?

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post #9 of 75 Old 10-20-2010, 11:10 PM
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Schaweet, ride report please

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post #10 of 75 Old 10-21-2010, 06:08 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
Cool - and you got a swingarm sticker too!

So - preload on the spring is the collar on the top - is there plenty of room to adjust this with the side cover removed? Hard to see in the photo when fitted.

There's a red knob at the bottom - ride height?

Where's the rebound adjuster?

And


Is there any point upgrading it to remote?


Looks fairly close to your 2B mid pipe - is the spring a larger diameter than the stock one?
Preload is at the top.....haven't set the sag yet, but it looks like I should be able to get at it on the left side of the bike with the cover removed. Thankfully it comes with a tool to adjust instead of destroying it with a preload collar wrench.

Red knob at the bottom is the rebound.

They say you can do on the bike height adjustment...still need to figure that out.....the shock came adjusted at the same length as the stocker.

This shock has the remote.....just no compression control. Need to upgrade? I'm guessing I won't need to.....but well see how track days go next year....... I'm no A guy.

It's close to the 2 bros mid......so was the stocker. The penske is the same size (just a heck of alot lighter). I may end up shimming the mid pipe over a couple mm to give the penske a tad more room.

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post #11 of 75 Old 10-21-2010, 06:41 AM
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Do you realize that you can do the rear shock R & R without having to move or remove the rear wheel ?
Looking at the pictures, my guess is that you stripped it down to permit surgical cleanliness. Nicely done and kept bike, for sure.

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post #12 of 75 Old 10-21-2010, 06:45 AM
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So, what spring did you get ?

Can you scan and post the tested damping curve ?

Watch out on your Static Sag setting. If you are using 10 or 11 mm ala the classic Traxxion approach, you will have to lengthen the shock.

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post #13 of 75 Old 10-21-2010, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
So, what spring did you get ?

Can you scan and post the tested damping curve ?

Watch out on your Static Sag setting. If you are using 10 or 11 mm ala the classic Traxxion approach, you will have to lengthen the shock.
I just saw your message about the spring rate and thanks.

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post #14 of 75 Old 10-21-2010, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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Just to clarify the 'behind the scenes' PM's......

My Penske came with a 900 #/inch spring (Which is what Penske recommended for my weight w/ gear - 190 pounds).......

Mcromo's came with a 1000 #/inch from Lindeman Engineering --- he's currently running a 1100 #/inch and may even consider a stiffer variation.

We'll have to get the bike out to my favorite road to do some testing w/ a ziptie.....

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post #15 of 75 Old 10-21-2010, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
Do you realize that you can do the rear shock R & R without having to move or remove the rear wheel ?
Looking at the pictures, my guess is that you stripped it down to permit surgical cleanliness. Nicely done and kept bike, for sure.
Curious......how? LOL. Do share your trick which may save us all some time.

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post #16 of 75 Old 10-21-2010, 11:51 AM
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919 Rear Shock R & R with rear wheel on

Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic954 View Post
Curious......how? LOL. Do share your trick which may save us all some time.
This will save you time doing the R & R and getting at the lower eye for doing shock length changes.

1
Support bike with stands under the frame, not the swingarm.
On the left us the frame's welded on lean stand bracket.
On the right use the bottom edge of aluminum castings that tie the engine to the frame and also mount the footrest brackets.

2
Remove the left footrest bracket.
Leave the shifter linkage in place.
Just swing it out of the way.

3
Remove the chain guard.

4
Remove the lower shock mount eye bolt.

5
Remove the upper shock mount eye bolt.

6
Extract the external reservoir from its position and generally weave things down and out.

It's not an easy "fall out on its own" but can be done. The huge save is on shock length changes. Speaking of which, don't overtighten the bottom eye jam nut when you do shock length changes. The main and jam are both 1 inch size.

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post #17 of 75 Old 10-21-2010, 11:51 AM
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arctic & mcromo

excellent info in this thread, SUBSCRIBED




...I have a feeling I'll be needing to refer to it in the coming months



thanks fellas

Abba Zaba, you my only friend.
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post #18 of 75 Old 10-21-2010, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omaha_919 View Post
arctic & mcromo

excellent info in this thread, SUBSCRIBED




...I have a feeling I'll be needing to refer to it in the coming months



thanks fellas
We're all having fun, and that's what it's all about.

By the way, I wrapped my entire Y tube section in heat wrap. The exhaust system temp goes way up doing track days. It also cuts down on the high infra red heat radiation that the y tube emits. I wrapped my headers from the head down below the rad, did the y tube, used adhesive heat tape behind the triangles, and wrapped the front end pipes on the cans. There is way less heat coming out on hot days in slow traffic.

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post #19 of 75 Old 10-21-2010, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
This will save you time doing the R & R and getting at the lower eye for doing shock length changes.

1
Support bike with stands under the frame, not the swingarm.
On the left us the frame's welded on lean stand bracket.
On the right use the bottom edge of aluminum castings that tie the engine to the frame and also mount the footrest brackets.

2
Remove the left footrest bracket.
Leave the shifter linkage in place.
Just swing it out of the way.

3
Remove the chain guard.

4
Remove the lower shock mount eye bolt.

5
Remove the upper shock mount eye bolt.

6
Extract the external reservoir from its position and generally weave things down and out.

It's not an easy "fall out on its own" but can be done. The huge save is on shock length changes. Speaking of which, don't overtighten the bottom eye jam nut when you do shock length changes. The main and jam are both 1 inch size.
I forgot to add that the whole point of this is gaining the extra access and working room from the removal of the chain guard, plus the subsequent dropping of the swingarm/wheel after step 4 is done. Shoot for about 3 inches of air under your rear tire in terms of the stand height needed to hold the bike up before starting the nuts and bolts work. I use my race stand to elevate the rear, then get my small footprint car axle stands in place, then remove the race stand.

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post #20 of 75 Old 10-21-2010, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
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..... using the rear stand at first, transfering the weight to jack stands at 2 key points on either side of the bike.... then pulling the stand.......Its the dropping of the swing arm out of way......that gives you access to pull the shock out......I just learned something.


Had to do something simliar to my old TL......except with the TL, the rear sub frame unbolted in minutes.


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post #21 of 75 Old 10-21-2010, 06:03 PM
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Do you ride that bike? it really clean...lol

"You live more in five minutes on a bike like this going flat out than some people do in a lifetime" - Burt Munro
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post #22 of 75 Old 10-21-2010, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
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its had 6,000 loved, never seen rain, never rode in the twisties, never wheelied, never been over 100 mph, Adult owned miles since June.....

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post #23 of 75 Old 10-21-2010, 06:45 PM
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its had 6,000 loved, never seen rain, never rode in the twisties, never wheelied, never been over 100 mph, Adult owned miles since June.....
should be ashamed of yourself. nice move with the shock btw

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post #24 of 75 Old 10-21-2010, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omaha_919 View Post
arctic & mcromo

excellent info in this thread, SUBSCRIBED




...I have a feeling I'll be needing to refer to it in the coming months



thanks fellas
Here's more !
arctic954 wanted to know more about shock unit Damping Force Curves.
Here goes ..............

OK, arctic954 asked for some insight into what the curves mean.
Damping Force Curves that is.
So here's a bit for everyone.
Hope it helps you all.

Damping force is a resistance force.
Compression damping resists excessive compressing of the suspension unit.
Rebound damping resists the compressed suspension unit from rebounding back too quickly and too far.

Dampers for motorcycles have always been heavier on the rebound side than compression. This is why when you look at the shock damping force curves, you will see way more rebound damping force available than compression damping force. In highly simplistic terms, if you dialed in as much Compression Damping Force as Rebound, the suspension would behave as though it was solid. If you tried to dial in a reduced amount of Rebound force so that it equaled the Compression force , you would lose control of the suspension unit and it would spring back as though there was no damping at all.

The basic damping force curve shape will be basically shaped by the piston fitted.

The piston has a compression face and a rebound face. There is a wide range of piston types.If you have a Penkse Manual, look on page 23. The basic characteristics are termed as being Linear, High Flow Linear, Digressive, Velocity Dependent. Mixing is not uncommon. For example, the Penske on my 919 came from Penske with a “standard” piston that is somewhere in between a Linear / Linear and High Flow Linear Linear. So you could call it a Medium Flow Linear/Linear, which means that both the Compression and Rebound piston face porting is designed to pass oil at a medium flow rate and yield somewhat linear damping force curves. (Meanwhile, the track only Penske I have for my GSX-R750 was custom built with a true Linear/Linear piston)

Now to some curves.

First is the factory test curve for my Penske as received from, and configured by Jim Lindemann. It was selected as being a standard 919 shock with a custom spring selection. We can ignore the spring, because it has nothing to do with the Damping Force Curves.

The Horizontal Axis is shock Piston Stroke Velocity in inches / second.
The Vertical Axis is Damping Force Energy in Pounds Force.
The horizontal 0 line is what separates the Compression zone from the Rebound zone.
There is a series of curves.
The Compression Damping Force Curves are above 0.
The Rebound Damping Force Curves are below zero.
See how the magnitude of the Rebound Damping Forces on the curves are many times that of the Compression Damping Forces.

Next we’ll talk about each series of curves.

Penske will colour key the curves on the test chart you get with your shock. (You SHOULD get the test curves in the box regardless of whether the shock came from a chassis tuner, reseller, or Penske direct. I have bought customs from two chassis tuners and got the curves both times without even having to ask.)

For my 919 shock, the Compression and Rebound test curves were Orange, Blue and Green. See the attachment.

Orange is the curve you get with the unit set full soft, in other words whatever adjusters there are, are in full soft position. The full soft line will be the line closest to the horizontal 0 line about 2/3rds the way up the chart.

Blue is the line that the factory set “suggested starting point settings” result in. This will be the second closest line to the horizontal 0 line.

Green is the curve you get with the unit set full hard, in other words whatever adjusters there are, are in full hard position. The full hard line will be the line furthest from the horizontal 0 line

The second attachment is the Damping Force Curves for the Penske on my GSX-R750 dedicated track bike. Keep in mind the swing arm is linked, and the unit is fitted with a 550 pound /inch spring. See how the magnitude of the Compression and Damping forces are different . See how the shape of the curves are different. See how the 750 shock has far greater compression resistance. See how the 750 shock has far less rebound resistance. These differences tell you how complicated all of this.

(See why taking a shock from say a F3/4 and grafting it on to a 919 suddenly looks even more suspect than it did before ? And that is aside from their respective eye to eye lengths being different ! )

Hope you find this of benefit and use.

McTavish McRomo
Attached Images
File Type: jpg McRomo's 919 Penske in original 2 way 8986 config.jpg (122.6 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg McRomo's GSX-R750 Penske 8987.jpg (156.5 KB, 9 views)

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post #25 of 75 Old 10-21-2010, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
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I have some more information to add to this thread......A quick ride report

Finally got the family all settled in --- its dark out, and around 48F & 9:00pm. But, just had to finally get out and test ride the bike with the new shock.

I'll try my best to be as objective as I can......as glowing reviews don't mean much. Please keep in mind.... I'm comparing the new Penske to my old stock '03 shock. (which is STIFF, like...sit on the bike, no movement)

My immediate impression bouncing the bike and watching the shock while in the garage..... is that there is a more noticeable amount of smooooth travel and it seems as though the shock is able to work and move through its stroke. (compared to the stocker that was stiff as a board with very little movement even under bouncing the bike hard w/ a super quick rebound)

So --- went out to my favorite set of twisties.....granted, cold tires/pavement always feels weird, I was still able to hit some rough pavement, enter corners, and drive out of the corners pretty hard..... there's also a couple on/off ramps that have some rough pavement that I was able to hit, that in the past would just about throw you over the handle bars.

---- I'd also like to note.... I STILL NEED TO SET MY SAG!!!!!!

First obstacle, ON RAMP SWEEPER.... an on-ramp that goes from 35MPH has a nice long sweeper and enters onto the highway. (which you really can get over on and throttle through a couple gears pretty good) VERY first thing I notice...... there's squat now that didn't use to be there. The bike feels like its digging into the pavement more and using the travel of the shock. As I get on the gas throttling through the corner...... the bike now no doubt is wanting to run wide. My thinking on this, is now that the bike has the correct spring, and is able to work like it should (with some squat) --- I now will have to use some more ride height to get the rear end back to where it was with the stiffer OEM rear.

NEXT OBSTACLE - Highway exit ramp w/ throw you off the bike mid-corner bump ---- big bump mid-corner that always use to jar the he&& out of you....... everytime, you'd hit it....get jarred, stand the bit up a bit.... and get back into it. This time ----- the bike took it in stride......NO JAR in the rear what-so-ever. (um....though, now my front forks seem to be the problem...ha, ha...who knew?) Its very obvious that the high-speed damping of the Penske is set up well.

Next Couple Obstacles - 25-30 MPH twisties..... during this phase, its VERY obvious that the rear ride height is not correct --- bike wanted to run wide...turn in wasn't as quick.......side to side transitions weren't quick. I did however notice something else during this...... with the old shock when powering out of a corner between twisties ---- the rear was always squirmy and felt uncoltroled...usually the bike would take a second or so while going into the next corner to settle down.... The rear feels like its glued to the pavement now....absorbing bumps, and digging in hard like it should.

On the way back --- I was able to hit a couple hard bumps in the road....one of which did send a jarring shock through-out the whole bike......... I'm guessing, that I may need to soften the rear spring a tad more because on the way back from the shock's stroke it toped out, this was not a high-speed damping/rebound problem like before.... Setting the SAG correctly should take care of this.....

So.....My conclusion?

Very happy so far, but I have some tuning to do!

First off, I'm happy with the spring choice that they gave me.....seems to be a good fit w/ my weight. Not tooo much squat, but a decent amount to use the travel of the shock. Seems to be spot on.

Need to set my SAG, believe that I may end up needing a tad less pre-load, and more ride height to get the bike back on its nose.

Now that I have the shock installed? ITS VERY obvious its time to do the front forks.....

I'm still very optimistic that I'll be able to get a good general setup without the need of the compression adjuster.... the low speed compression seems to be set at a very usable aggressive riding position.

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post #26 of 75 Old 10-21-2010, 07:45 PM
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Suggestion.
Do not use a soft top out 10 mm Free Sag with the 900 # spring on the 919.
Go to 5 mm Free Sag.
Measure your Rider Sag.
I'm going guess that it will be at least 35 mm.
Whatever it is, lift the rear up by, at the very least, whatever the difference is between your Rider Sag and 30 mm.
You can also jump ahead and lengthen the shock to get even more rear ride height, but step by step is better.
I have raised my front and bike up to get more swing arm angle to increase the anti squat force. This also raises the bike's centre of gravity and has made it easier to transition the bike off vertical and into lean. I have not noticed an increase in effort needed to pick the bike back up, but it is now easier to initiate lean.
If you put on a zip tie, went back out with it as is, and you do some full throttle runs through the lower gears, I'll bet your zip tie will be jammed into the snubber at the bottom of the shock shaft inside the spring.
Also.
What is the rebound setting ?
If you don't know, start turning it in the + direction, count the clicks until it very lightly seats closed, then count back out to where you now know where it was.

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post #27 of 75 Old 10-21-2010, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
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Took some photos of the goodies included in the Penske Tuning packet.....

The coupon for an 8983 upgrade...... was told that because this shock already has the remote, the actual upgrade will cost way less than what the coupon states.



and.......... the shock dyno curve.


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post #28 of 75 Old 10-21-2010, 09:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
Suggestion.
Do not use a soft top out 10 mm Free Sag with the 900 # spring on the 919.
Go to 5 mm Free Sag.
Measure your Rider Sag.
I'm going guess that it will be at least 35 mm.
Whatever it is, lift the rear up by, at the very least, whatever the difference is between your Rider Sag and 30 mm.
You can also jump ahead and lengthen the shock to get even more rear ride height, but step by step is better.
I have raised my front and bike up to get more swing arm angle to increase the anti squat force. This also raises the bike's centre of gravity and has made it easier to transition the bike off vertical and into lean. I have not noticed an increase in effort needed to pick the bike back up, but it is now easier to initiate lean.
If you put on a zip tie, went back out with it as is, and you do some full throttle runs through the lower gears, I'll bet your zip tie will be jammed into the snubber at the bottom of the shock shaft inside the spring.
Also.
What is the rebound setting ?
If you don't know, start turning it in the + direction, count the clicks until it very lightly seats closed, then count back out to where you now know where it was.
Yep.....Mcromo44 is a VERY smart man, he knows his stuff. Apparently.....the spring they installed ISN'T SPOT ON.....

My shock came with a 900#/in spring..... he recommended me getting the 1000#/in a while back. Here's what happened tonight.

The bike out of the box as installed in the bike...... had 3mm of Free Sag. (The amount the bike settles on its own with no rider) 5mm to 10mm is what most shoot for. The Penske manual recommends between 22-26mm of static sag. (The amount the rear end compresses with the rider in full gear)

Well, was shooting for 1" or 25mm of static sag......... when I got the bike to this spot...... I have 0 free sag --- the bike was completely topped out under its own weight.

Which means.......the spring is too soft, so I have the pre-load cranked to obtain the correct sag, which in turn -- tops out the bike.

So --- the solution? Pull the shock out, send it back to Penske, and get the 1000#/in spring installed.

I still VERY much so, recommend a Penske shock...... I'd just recommend to ask what spring is being installed and do a tad of research.



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post #29 of 75 Old 10-21-2010, 10:50 PM
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i have the same shock but with comp adjustment, and run a 1000 spring.
I am 175 lbs without gear.
Penske maybe good, but that is a sh.T call on their behalf.
Hassle for all the pain they put you through and go for a free upgrade, never know unless you try.
;-)

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post #30 of 75 Old 10-22-2010, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehirt View Post
i have the same shock but with comp adjustment, and run a 1000 spring.
I am 175 lbs without gear.
I'm scared...

Dave: if you're only 175 & have the 1000 spring, what do you think of it? Is it too stiff? would you be better off with a 900?

Arctic... you're thinking of going up to the 1000 too? What's your weight with gear (or without) ?

What I'm concerned about is that I'm a 205lb guy. It's been a while since I weighed myself in full gear but I think it was about 220(ish). I also ride 2-up a lot and so I'm wondering by dave & arctic's comments that the 1000 might not be enough for me.

I know of a guy who's in the suspension business (he does penske set ups for cars, I guess) who is gonna inspect the unit I purchased used & find out exactly what spring is on it.

I must reiterate... great thread fellas. THANKS!!!

Abba Zaba, you my only friend.
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post #31 of 75 Old 10-22-2010, 07:18 AM
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My 1000 # / inch spring gave me a 5 mm Free Sag based Rider Sag of 34 mm.
This was the primary reason I went up to 1100 # / inch.
The secondary reason was anti squat related.

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post #32 of 75 Old 10-22-2010, 08:02 AM Thread Starter
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Talked to Mike H at Penske this morning..... was EXTREMELY helpful on the phone.

First off --- they were more than willing to swap out the spring....they were even willing to send me another spring so I could do the spring swap locally.

He did however, offer up a few key things...... The Penske manaul said to shoot for a static sag (rider, gear, and bike) of 7/8 to 1 1/16" --- which equate to 22-26mm. Mike stated that 30-35mm is more of a real-world figure. We went through the precedure I used to check the sag and also pointed a few things out...... when measuring my Free Sag (bike alone under its own weight), it was necessary to actually pick the bike up off the ground so the rear tire isn't touching --- then measure. In an ideal world, they shoot for 6-8mm or Free sag.... BUT, they are more concerned about STATIC SAG and what amount of shock travel that is being use. (Zip Tie test)

He also mentioned..... that because the '03 rear shock was so stiff..... I need to get the ride height situation figured out first --- before getting the sag dialed it. He recommended 3mm of rear ride height. (which is 2 turns of the adjuster collar)

Then.... to go back and shoot for 30-35mm of Static Sag.....

Once this was done..... he recommended to put a Zip Tie on the rear shock, and run my favorite road ----- IF at this point, the Zip Tie continually bottoms out..... then its time to swap the spring.

...... Looks like I now have an opertunity to leave work early....and do some wrenching and 'testing' on my favorite road.

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post #33 of 75 Old 10-22-2010, 08:08 AM Thread Starter
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BTW ----- this time around......I put the bike on its rear stand.....then used 2 jacks, one on either side of the bike in front of the swingarm to take the weight off the rear, also put 2 jack stands under each rear set....... then pulled the rear stand.

When I unbolted the shock.....the swing-arm/tire drops out of the way.... and leaves PLENTY of room to unbolt/work on the shock without having to remove the rear tire.

Also, food for thought ---- with the shock installed, if you take the 2 side panels off the bike...... there is more than enough room to adjust the preload collar of the shock while its still on the bike.

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post #34 of 75 Old 10-22-2010, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic954 View Post
BTW ----- this time around......I put the bike on its rear stand.....then used 2 jacks, one on either side of the bike in front of the swingarm to take the weight off the rear, also put 2 jack stands under each rear set....... then pulled the rear stand.

When I unbolted the shock.....the swing-arm/tire drops out of the way.... and leaves PLENTY of room to unbolt/work on the shock without having to remove the rear tire.

Also, food for thought ---- with the shock installed, if you take the 2 side panels off the bike...... there is more than enough room to adjust the preload collar of the shock while its still on the bike.


Back out the collar lock screws before making any adjustments.

Mark the collar with yellow or white or red dabs of paint so it is easier to keep track of how much of a collar turn change is being made.

Try to orient the collar so that the lock screws, at least one of them, can be accessed from the side. Use an extended allen key, minimum 6 inch long. Lightly seat the lock screw, then add max 1/2 turn.

Be very careful of how you move back up your bottomed out zip tie, don't want to mark the shaft.
If it is jammed in, use a dull flat screwdriver, one that has had the edges rounded off from years of use - or start filing and smoothing on a good one.
I made up a zip tie moving tool. Got an old fashioned wooden paint stir stick.
Filed a shock shaft sized half round in the end. Everything sanded real nice and smooth. Then rub a bit of grease or oil into the wood, more to seal it off and prevent and wood fibres coming off. Finishing touch is nice cloth black hockey tape wrapped around the grip end of the wood.

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post #35 of 75 Old 10-22-2010, 08:44 AM
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All sag measurements should be done with all adjusters backed out to full soft. Always !

I do a minimum of 3 "ups" and 3 "downs", average the values, then look at the mid point between the averages.
An "up" is "lift up and gently release and let settle"
A "down" is "push down and gently release and let rise"
You should not get more than 3 mm range between your averaged "ups" and "downs", and 2 mm is real nice. (the 2 mm value is only valid for the rear and only if it is a high quality shock with minimal stiction)

Getting good "ups" are more difficult if you are running a 10 or 11 mm Free Sag (and dream on about getting valid measurements if your adjusters are not backed out to full soft). You will likely find a greater range of your "up" measurements, while the "downs" will be in a narrower band.

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post #36 of 75 Old 10-22-2010, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic954 View Post
Talked to Mike H at Penske this morning..... was EXTREMELY helpful on the phone.

First off --- they were more than willing to swap out the spring....they were even willing to send me another spring so I could do the spring swap locally.

He did however, offer up a few key things...... The Penske manaul said to shoot for a static sag (rider, gear, and bike) of 7/8 to 1 1/16" --- which equate to 22-26mm. Mike stated that 30-35mm is more of a real-world figure. We went through the precedure I used to check the sag and also pointed a few things out...... when measuring my Free Sag (bike alone under its own weight), it was necessary to actually pick the bike up off the ground so the rear tire isn't touching --- then measure. In an ideal world, they shoot for 6-8mm or Free sag.... BUT, they are more concerned about STATIC SAG and what amount of shock travel that is being use. (Zip Tie test)

He also mentioned..... that because the '03 rear shock was so stiff..... I need to get the ride height situation figured out first --- before getting the sag dialed it. He recommended 3mm of rear ride height. (which is 2 turns of the adjuster collar)

Then.... to go back and shoot for 30-35mm of Static Sag.....

Once this was done..... he recommended to put a Zip Tie on the rear shock, and run my favorite road ----- IF at this point, the Zip Tie continually bottoms out..... then its time to swap the spring.

...... Looks like I now have an opertunity to leave work early....and do some wrenching and 'testing' on my favorite road.
I think you meant ride height change by shock length change and not (preload) "collar" change.
Trusting so, 2 turns of the eye will raise you up way more than 3 mm.


You need repeatable and accurate hard points to measure from.
Go to right side of bike.
Look up from inside of exhaust can, visualize a line up from the end of the swing arm. You will see the plastic wheel well liner. See the flat, and how it offers a reasonably good "corner" that is almost perfectly straight up from end of swing arm ? End of tape goes there, pull tape down to end of swingarm, and measure.
Take a measurement.
Then change your shock eye by 1/2 turn, and measure again. Now you know how much ride height change per 1/2 turn.

Let's imagine you have a spring that gives you 35 mm Rider with a 5 mm Free Sag. Target the chassis height as being what it would be for a 30 mm Rider Sag. So adjust shock eye to raise rear 5 mm. I've gone beyond that, but keep in mind I also raised the front too. I was out for higher Centre of Gravity and more swingarm angle.

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post #37 of 75 Old 10-22-2010, 01:39 PM
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i am running 30 mm sag.
I have no problems with the 1000 spring, the stock spring seemed a lot harder and the ride was very harsh so with the penske all seams a lot more plush and controlled.
I also carry she who must be obeyed on most rides, so i wanted a spring that was a touch on the heavier side for that reason.
The advise on using a dab of white (tipex) on the shock is a good one, I have marked for me and piliion so changing preload is no problem.
I noticed riding with the two up sag that the bike was higher and turned in quicker, so this weekend i will raise the rear a bit.

But first I have to put the forks back in the tracky (just went to 1kg springs and a few other tweaks (up from 9's).
good luck with it all.
dave

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post #38 of 75 Old 10-22-2010, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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I took the info from Mike and made the changes..... ended up with 35mm of static sag, 5mm of free sag, and the ride height is 2 full turns taller.

Went out and hit my favorite road pretty hard while stopping every 4-5 turns to look at the zip tie.....the travel was usually at 80% and if I hit it really hard on a corner, it would bottom out the zip tie. The bike isn't showing signs of excessive squat like before....but is still not turning as quickly as it use to.....

Will probably add just a little bit more preload.....and raise the rear another turn.....should be really close.

I'm thinking the 950 spring would be perfect.....but it is a million times better than before.....and pretty darn close. Think Im good to go......

If this was a track only bike....or a bike that Id 2 up ride with....I for sure would get a little stiffer spring.

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post #39 of 75 Old 10-22-2010, 01:54 PM
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post #40 of 75 Old 10-22-2010, 02:06 PM
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Hmmmm seems like such a waste for me to have this thread and not buy the shock....

Thanks for all the info guys.

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