PCIII Accelerator pump - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 21 Old 05-21-2006, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
Tirone
 
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PCIII Accelerator pump

Let's discuss...
Does this feature provide a positive or even noticeable effect in the 919?
Several members have already posted certain comments in the "Satos/PCIII issue" thread ranging from "Yes, it works quite well" to "Disable the A.P. feature, your bike will run better without."
The fuel / revs / and throttle sensitivity preferences seem to vary as well.

I'm planning on trying one week "with" and one week "without" to see if I can even feel a change in performance.
Love to hear what you guys think!
Thanks,
Z

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post #2 of 21 Old 05-22-2006, 08:48 AM
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I'm in the same boat as you, Z. Have downloaded the software to install the Accel Pump but haven't messed with it yet. It's running so good right now I almost hate to mess with it!

It's a fool who looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart.
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post #3 of 21 Old 05-22-2006, 06:59 PM
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I want to know what it does too. Need some settings to try out......

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post #4 of 21 Old 05-22-2006, 07:05 PM
 
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+1

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post #5 of 21 Old 05-22-2006, 09:13 PM
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Try these settings and see what ya think.

20 to 25% sensitivity
+5 to 10 rich
20 to 40 RMP over duration

- Rev. CYCHO -

tires.... it's what's for dinner!
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post #6 of 21 Old 05-23-2006, 05:45 PM Thread Starter
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Moto, your settings are quite different than what I've seen suggested, but I'll give them a go. There's been so little actual rider feedback on this PCIII "feature" that they might be the right recipe after all (?)
I still can't decide whether I feel any positive / better performance with the accel pump enabled.
Z

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post #7 of 21 Old 05-23-2006, 06:28 PM
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The AP function works great. I don't remember my settings since it has been so long, but I think it was 85, 15, 25 or something very close

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post #8 of 21 Old 05-23-2006, 07:05 PM
 
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Thanks LDH. I will try those settings, but what should I we be looking for to see if it is set properly?

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post #9 of 21 Old 05-23-2006, 07:08 PM
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Just makes the throttle response a little more snappy when you whack it open.

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post #10 of 21 Old 05-24-2006, 12:48 AM
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Note: this is not definitive and I am not an authority in any way. Your experience may differ and your results may vary. That said, here is what I think I have learned about the AP settings and why I set them the way I do.

Sensitivity:
The reason I set my sensitivity to 20 is because I find myself always adjusting the throttle while I ride.... and the more sensitive the setting.. the easier it is for a small adjustment to the throttle to cause the PC3 to squirt a rich shot.. and in my case that would be constantly. I like to go faster than the speed limit in most places.. (I'm sure no else here does this? ) and I am always in the cross hair of the fuzz.. so I speed up.. slow down.. speed up.. slow down. It's like fighting my inner . Plus, I feel safer as a pass traffic rather than pacing or being passed. So I opt for less sensitive. A quick snap open of the throttle will still cause the rich shot regardless of your sensitivity setting. So a lower setting here, seems to me, saves fuel unless you need the juice turned on.

Fuel Change:
I set the +5 to 10% just to give it a conservative rich shot. To be honest.. I can't really tell a huge difference on this setting until I get over 20%.. then it's a a real pisser as the engine looses power. Over 20% may be way too rich?... I'm thinking yes.

RPM Duration for fuel change:
I have tried 20 and 40... and people, I can't feel a difference. Obviously you have to have some number plugged in there or what would be the point? You can, of course, set it to anything from 1 to 40. Based on 10000 RPM red-line, give or take where you are comfortable shifting, 40 RPM would only be .4% of the total available RPM range. 20 would be .2, 10 would be .1% and a 5 RPM setting would be a .05% duration of available RPM scale. I figure what the hell and just set it to it's max.. 40 RPM. Tell ya what.. get your bike up to your favorite speed and in your favorite gear. then slow the engine by 40 RPM.. or wait.. increase it by 40 RPM... and good luck. 40 RPM is .4%. Here is another way to look at it. When I have the PC3 connected to my computer and I watch the throttle position change.... I can't adjust it in as fine as a 1% resolution let alone .4%. It's like 2%, 5% 10% etc... So if I can't adjust the thing that controls the RPM at this fine of a resolution, what's the point of this adjustment? Seems like it should be just on or off with the AP feature?

My conclusion is that the setting with the most user noticeable impact would be the sensitivity, with the amount of fuel change running in second place as long as you don't over fuel.. then it could impact negatively. I spoke with at least 2 people at DynoJet about the AP feature. One guy could only tell me it was a "rider preference" thing... which is basically in the manual, right? The second guy explained to me a little better and helped me understand the that the fuel change was X% over whatever the current fuel delivery is for that RPM at that throttle position, etc. This helped me, at the very least, formulate a logical understanding of what it is doing when I use the AP feature. I can't say I have found the best setting yet.. but I have found a few bad ones.

- Rev. CYCHO -

tires.... it's what's for dinner!
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post #11 of 21 Old 05-24-2006, 05:40 AM
 
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So what is the point then? If you are unhappy with your current settings why can't you just load in a map with richer settings? I have to be missing something here.

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post #12 of 21 Old 05-24-2006, 09:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoCycho
I spoke with at least 2 people at DynoJet about the AP feature. One guy could only tell me it was a "rider preference" thing... which is basically in the manual, right? The second guy explained to me a little better and helped me understand the that the fuel change was X% over whatever the current fuel delivery is for that RPM at that throttle position, etc. This helped me, at the very least, formulate a logical understanding of what it is doing when I use the AP feature. I can't say I have found the best setting yet.. but I have found a few bad ones.
This is why I keep saying that if the bike is mapped correctly in the first place you shouldn't need to ADD fuel to the mix. This feature makes no logical sense to me whatsoever. I still say it's nothing more than buttons for the user to play around with and make him feel like he's doing something. The only tuner, beside LDH, that I have heard using it was on the 04-05 R1's where the ECU's are flawed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Radley
I've found it useful on certain flawed ecu's. The 04/05 R1 is one such bike. There is a nasty snatch in the throttle when rolling back on mid corner due to a sudden richening up which upsets the chassis. The APJ utility can be used to remove fuel as well as add which makes it very useful on certain machines only.

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post #13 of 21 Old 05-24-2006, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterjason
So what is the point then? If you are unhappy with your current settings why can't you just load in a map with richer settings? I have to be missing something here.
Sorry, didn't mean to imply I was unhappy... I am happy with current settings. What I meant was I have found settings that are way off in the past.. and I don't know if I am done adjusting looking for an even better setting.

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tires.... it's what's for dinner!
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post #14 of 21 Old 05-24-2006, 11:48 AM
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Once again it is obvious that some people have no clue what this feature does.

The purpose of the AP function is to compensate for a lean A/F mixture when you whack open the throttle.

If you look at ANY dyno chart with an A/F ratio plotted you will see the ratio go super lean 17:1 or more when they pin the throttle to start the run. The Accelerator Pump will not affect full throttle runs all that much, but it does help with quick bursts of throttle especially when the rpms are already spinning fairly high in the rev range.

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post #15 of 21 Old 05-24-2006, 12:35 PM
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Kind of off topic: Back in the early years of inline 4's we had a similar problem with the Mikuni smoothbore carburetors. When the throttle was wacked WFO the motor would initially bog down. The solution was to install a auxiliary accelerator pump. I found these original AP jets that mounted into the intake rubbers. Look closely and you will see the micro hole in the tip.


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post #16 of 21 Old 05-24-2006, 03:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter
Once again it is obvious that some people have no clue what this feature does.

The purpose of the AP function is to compensate for a lean A/F mixture when you whack open the throttle.

If you look at ANY dyno chart with an A/F ratio plotted you will see the ratio go super lean 17:1 or more when they pin the throttle to start the run. The Accelerator Pump will not affect full throttle runs all that much, but it does help with quick bursts of throttle especially when the rpms are already spinning fairly high in the rev range.

Thank you for explaining that. I think I felt the need for it today. After fitting the satos and the newsato2 pc3 map today I noticed it bogged just a little at low speeds when I was at low rpms and just whacked it open.

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post #17 of 21 Old 05-24-2006, 05:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterjason
Thank you for explaining that. I think I felt the need for it today. After fitting the satos and the newsato2 pc3 map today I noticed it bogged just a little at low speeds when I was at low rpms and just whacked it open.
I have been experiencing that with just the stock setup.

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post #18 of 21 Old 05-25-2006, 11:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter
Once again it is obvious that some people have no clue what this feature does.
That's it!! You're off my Christmas list for that comment!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter
The purpose of the AP function is to compensate for a lean A/F mixture when you whack open the throttle.

If you look at ANY dyno chart with an A/F ratio plotted you will see the ratio go super lean 17:1 or more when they pin the throttle to start the run. The Accelerator Pump will not affect full throttle runs all that much, but it does help with quick bursts of throttle especially when the rpms are already spinning fairly high in the rev range.
Now that's starting to make a little more sense.

Here's a couple of charts for discussion:





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post #19 of 21 Old 05-26-2006, 09:24 AM
 
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Question LDH:

Does the High lean spike show up if you slam WOT at higher rpms? Say 9k and up?

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post #20 of 21 Old 05-26-2006, 09:58 AM
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It does just not as bad.

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post #21 of 21 Old 05-26-2006, 10:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter
It does just not as bad.
I'll check that out the next time I'm on the dyno. If it's an issue I'll look into getting some results recorded w/ and without the AP feature.

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