PC3 - Removing Popping - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 49 Old 02-11-2016, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
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PC3 - Removing Popping

Yes I know, you're all going to tell me to do the PAIRs mod...it's on the list.

I installed my PC3 last night and have noticed a big difference right away.

I have Dan Moto exhausts, and prior to installing the PC3, any time I was decelerating (closed throttle) from high speed/high revs (eg: 8,000 RPM down to 5,000 RPM) I would get loud continuous (5-8) popping until the revs dropped.

After fitting the PC3 last night, I took it for a test ride and in that same RPM range and speed, it was instantly no longer popping.

Looking at the map, in the high rev range it is tuned for on average -4 to -9 across the throttle ranges.

Prior to, and now with the PC3, I am still getting a very predictable louder single or double pop in the 2,000 - 4,000 RPM range when cruising around town. This can happen any time the throttle is closed - eg: a gear change - or when slowing down to a stop. I also notice it makes a much quieter, but still noticeable 'bubbling' noise at idle - this is not a loud pop, and the best way I can describe it is more of a bubbling noise.

Again, looking at the map in this 2,000 - 4,000 RPM range, the map shows -2 to -5 across the range.

In order to remove the popping here, should I just slowly try going to -3 to -9 in this rev range?

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post #2 of 49 Old 02-11-2016, 07:13 PM
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Do the pairs mod.
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Spoiler:

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post #3 of 49 Old 02-11-2016, 07:31 PM
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I've always thought of popping as the sound of a lean condition - AFAIK [it doesn't happen on my bike] the PAIRS pop is as a result of a leaned out exhaust created by the addition of air.

I wonder what would happen if you richened it up a little? I guess you will need to go both ways [TWSS] to check it out.

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post #4 of 49 Old 02-11-2016, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K1w1Boy View Post
I've always thought of popping as the sound of a lean condition - AFAIK [it doesn't happen on my bike] the PAIRS pop is as a result of a leaned out exhaust created by the addition of air.

I wonder what would happen if you richened it up a little? I guess you will need to go both ways [TWSS] to check it out.
See that's what I had assumed too... popping = lean.

But then why does reducing the fuel on the map stop it? That would be making it even leaner.

At what point does the PAIRs system inject air in to the bike? Exhaust port in engine? Headers? I've never really looked in to it.

So long as it was after the combustion process, does it even matter if it is creating a lean system?

If it is lean in the exhaust cans due to the PAIRs leaning the exhaust system, (and not the engine) then my thought would be that there is nothing to worry about. The loud 1 or 2 pops are annoying though.


Paging someone more knowledgeable than me, I'm no combustion expert.

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post #5 of 49 Old 02-11-2016, 08:34 PM
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It won't hurt your engine. But if you want the pops gone, do the pairs removal.

Some guy did a video...

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post #6 of 49 Old 02-11-2016, 08:42 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
It won't hurt your engine. But if you want the pops gone, do the pairs removal.

Some guy did a video...
I wonder who that could be

Are they still available through WT or do I need to get them from ebay?

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post #7 of 49 Old 02-11-2016, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The End View Post
I wonder who that could be

Are they still available through WT or do I need to get them from ebay?
Send a PM to Helimech, if he doesn't respond or have any, eBay works, too.

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post #8 of 49 Old 02-12-2016, 03:29 AM
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If he has some available, let me know. I know a guy who would split the shipping with ya...

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post #9 of 49 Old 02-12-2016, 03:36 AM Thread Starter
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Sent Helimech a PM, will let you know.

May have to wait a few weeks as I've spent a bit of money on the bike lately


Also how the hell are you meant to fit the PC3 where the instructions show you to put it.

I tried for ages and could not get it to fit anywhere on the frame there - look at the markings on the frame from the seat rubbing on it, there is no room at all.

In the mean time I've fit it on the side:


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post #10 of 49 Old 02-12-2016, 07:40 AM
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Some of the best music I have heard over the years came from engines misfiring due to dramatic load changes.
Two good examples are the CR750 and Cosworth V8 engines going down the gears and being used for engine braking.
I don't ever want to get rid of my popping!
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post #11 of 49 Old 02-12-2016, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The End View Post
Yes I know, you're all going to tell me to do the PAIRs mod...it's on the list.

I installed my PC3 last night and have noticed a big difference right away.

I have Dan Moto exhausts, and prior to installing the PC3, any time I was decelerating (closed throttle) from high speed/high revs (eg: 8,000 RPM down to 5,000 RPM) I would get loud continuous (5-8) popping until the revs dropped.

After fitting the PC3 last night, I took it for a test ride and in that same RPM range and speed, it was instantly no longer popping.

Looking at the map, in the high rev range it is tuned for on average -4 to -9 across the throttle ranges.

Prior to, and now with the PC3, I am still getting a very predictable louder single or double pop in the 2,000 - 4,000 RPM range when cruising around town. This can happen any time the throttle is closed - eg: a gear change - or when slowing down to a stop. I also notice it makes a much quieter, but still noticeable 'bubbling' noise at idle - this is not a loud pop, and the best way I can describe it is more of a bubbling noise.

Again, looking at the map in this 2,000 - 4,000 RPM range, the map shows -2 to -5 across the range.

In order to remove the popping here, should I just slowly try going to -3 to -9 in this rev range?
What map are you using ?

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post #12 of 49 Old 02-12-2016, 09:55 AM
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Popping due to pairs is normal. The pairs system injects air into the exhaust to force any unburned fuel to combust completely before exiting the exhaust system.

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post #13 of 49 Old 02-12-2016, 03:41 PM
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The PAIR system does not "inject" per se. The PAIR system is supplied filtered air by the airbox, which runs at or just slightly below atmospheric pressure, depending on engine load. The PAIR air is added in the exhaust port, to ensure enough temperature to take advantage of the PAIR supplied air to support combustion of raw fuel (= unburned hydrocarbons) or partially combusted fuel or partially combusted fuel's combustible byproduct carbon monoxide. The entry of the PAIR air is such that all air flow is from pressure differential and not any so called "jet pump" effect. Also keep in mind that the exhaust port fluctuates dramatically as a function of the exhaust system pressure waves. This is why the PAIR system has the reed valves, which are nothing more than "anti reverse flow" devices that come in to play when the exhaust port pressure spikes above atmospheric due to a reflected exhaust system pressure wave.
Fascinating stuff, aye !

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post #14 of 49 Old 02-12-2016, 03:47 PM
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Knew I could count on you for the technical explanation lol. I was just trying to keep it short and simple

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post #15 of 49 Old 02-12-2016, 03:48 PM
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Keep in mind that the convolutions of the stock can gas flow path help dampen out the sound of pops.
Yet one more reason I ditched the stockers and put on the Yosh TRSs !
Race style cans are supposed to pop under certain load conditions.

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post #16 of 49 Old 02-12-2016, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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So in other words its a waste of time and weight

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post #17 of 49 Old 02-12-2016, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
Knew I could count on you for the technical explanation lol. I was just trying to keep it short and simple
I think you were testing me .................

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post #18 of 49 Old 02-12-2016, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The End View Post
So in other words its a waste of time and weight
Ideal bin material, even if just to get rid of the clutter.
The PAIR that is.
Some might moan about doing so being anti-social, but such types likely would not be on this website.

Also.
1
If you are not presently using and have not tried it, do yourself a favour and try the djm converted MoriV4 map that LDH did eons ago in an earlier file type. That map should be the default starting point map for any twin can setup (NOT 900 RR setups).
2
Did you synch your PC3 to your bike's ECU ?
And check both Closed and Open throttle positions ?
3
Playing with the map compare feature of the software, eh ?
Excellent !

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post #19 of 49 Old 02-12-2016, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The End View Post
Sent Helimech a PM, will let you know.

May have to wait a few weeks as I've spent a bit of money on the bike lately


Also how the hell are you meant to fit the PC3 where the instructions show you to put it.

I tried for ages and could not get it to fit anywhere on the frame there - look at the markings on the frame from the seat rubbing on it, there is no room at all.

In the mean time I've fit it on the side:

Mine sits here
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_4292.jpg (221.8 KB, 21 views)

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post #20 of 49 Old 02-15-2016, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The End View Post
Yes I know, you're all going to tell me to do the PAIRs mod...it's on the list.

I installed my PC3 last night and have noticed a big difference right away.

I have Dan Moto exhausts, and prior to installing the PC3, any time I was decelerating (closed throttle) from high speed/high revs (eg: 8,000 RPM down to 5,000 RPM) I would get loud continuous (5-8) popping until the revs dropped.

After fitting the PC3 last night, I took it for a test ride and in that same RPM range and speed, it was instantly no longer popping.

Looking at the map, in the high rev range it is tuned for on average -4 to -9 across the throttle ranges.

Prior to, and now with the PC3, I am still getting a very predictable louder single or double pop in the 2,000 - 4,000 RPM range when cruising around town. This can happen any time the throttle is closed - eg: a gear change - or when slowing down to a stop. I also notice it makes a much quieter, but still noticeable 'bubbling' noise at idle - this is not a loud pop, and the best way I can describe it is more of a bubbling noise.

Again, looking at the map in this 2,000 - 4,000 RPM range, the map shows -2 to -5 across the range.

In order to remove the popping here, should I just slowly try going to -3 to -9 in this rev range?

Off topic, have you noticed a difference in power and throttle response with the PC3? I also have some dan motos and wondering how it improves the niner

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post #21 of 49 Old 02-15-2016, 02:21 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonstrocity View Post
Off topic, have you noticed a difference in power and throttle response with the PC3? I also have some dan motos and wondering how it improves the niner
I haven't spent much time so far on playing with different maps, so don't know for sure. I've only really plugged it in and gone from there.

It does seem a little bit less jerky around 1200rpm, prior to the PC3 if I was in first gear it would jerk and lunge forward a lot. However now it is a bit smoother and I can get it down to around 1050 RPM.

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post #22 of 49 Old 02-15-2016, 03:45 PM
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Throttle response should be the #1 reason to add a PCIII!

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post #23 of 49 Old 02-15-2016, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The End View Post
prior to the PC3 if I was in first gear it would jerk and lunge forward a lot. However now it is a LOT smoother
Yeah, that's my story too...

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post #24 of 49 Old 02-16-2016, 10:23 AM
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Ultimately I ended up with a peak gain of about 7hp with the PC mapped optimally on the Moriwaki cans, but that doesn't mean all that much considering I very rarely rode around at redline with the throttle pinned to the stop.

What the PCIII does for the 919 is improves the throttle response and improves the linear power delivery. The horsepower gains are just gravy...

BTW I didn't start keeping records of individual Powercommander sales until December of 2004, but since then I have sold exactly 299 PCIII USB's for the 919 with the last one being sold in November of last year. I guess everybody put them up for the winter

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post #25 of 49 Old 02-16-2016, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
Ultimately I ended up with a peak gain of about 7hp with the PC mapped optimally on the Moriwaki cans, but that doesn't mean all that much considering I very rarely rode around at redline with the throttle pinned to the stop.

What the PCIII does for the 919 is improves the throttle response and improves the linear power delivery. The horsepower gains are just gravy...

BTW I didn't start keeping records of individual Powercommander sales until December of 2004, but since then I have sold exactly 299 PCIII USB's for the 919 with the last one being sold in November of last year. I guess everybody put them up for the winter
The map LDH is referring to is the one named mw919mori4 as found in the Drop Box and reformatted into the current djm file type

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post #26 of 49 Old 02-18-2016, 03:56 AM
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Just as an alternative approach to the PAIRS mod.

I was in the process of doing the full job on my bike and decided on a less invasive approach just in case I ever wanted to revert back to the original configuration. I left all the hardware in place and just cut the air line from the air box and inserted a blind hose barb to reconnect the cut ends together. If I ever want to go back, I can just replace the blind barb with an open one. Only downside I can see is that I don't gain the additional clearance for spark plug removal and I didn't get to shed those couple ounces of extra weight that was killing me at the drag strip

And the, what I thought was slightly annoying, popping on deceleration is gone.

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post #27 of 49 Old 02-19-2016, 03:26 AM
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Actually, before I even did the work in Post #26, I simply put a squeeze clamp on the air line just to confirm that it would stop the popping. It did, so I went ahead with the air line cut/block approach.

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post #28 of 49 Old 02-19-2016, 11:38 AM
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I just don't get deliberately turning off the music !

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post #29 of 49 Old 02-19-2016, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
I just don't get deliberately turning off the music !
My Tuono pops a bit on decel since I put aftermarket cans on it. It doesn't really bother me, but my wife doesn't like it when she's following me on a ride

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post #30 of 49 Old 02-19-2016, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superdog View Post
My Tuono pops a bit on decel since I put aftermarket cans on it. It doesn't really bother me, but my wife doesn't like it when she's following me on a ride

My wife doesn't like following me period.

She gets all pissy when I toy around with her out there




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post #31 of 49 Old 02-19-2016, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDH View Post
My wife doesn't like following me period.

She gets all pissy when I toy around with her out there
I can't understand why you'd ever want to lead in the first place?

The view from behind is better anyway

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post #32 of 49 Old 02-19-2016, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
I just don't get deliberately turning off the music !
It's interesting - I got rid of the pops on the 919, and absolutely loved the clean sound of the dual SATO's on the bike.


Having a single Micron can on the 599, though, I actually ENJOY the pops...

Such a fun thing to hear dumping the throttle after 13k RPM's


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post #33 of 49 Old 02-19-2016, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
It's interesting - I got rid of the pops on the 919, and absolutely loved the clean sound of the dual SATO's on the bike.


Having a single Micron can on the 599, though, I actually ENJOY the pops...

Such a fun thing to hear dumping the throttle after 13k RPM's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OG6J41e9mE
Very nice !

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post #34 of 49 Old 02-19-2016, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
The map LDH is referring to is the one named mw919mori4 as found in the Drop Box and reformatted into the current djm file type
I've given that map a go, and when comparing it to the one I was on (tuned for two brothers dual can set up) I noticed the mw919mori4 map had MORE fuel added in the lower rev ranges.

The first ride I've had with the mw919mori4 map and I've noticed a lot more popping in the low RPM range.

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post #35 of 49 Old 05-26-2016, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
Keep in mind that the convolutions of the stock can gas flow path help dampen out the sound of pops.
Yet one more reason I ditched the stockers and put on the Yosh TRSs !
Race style cans are supposed to pop under certain load conditions.
I got to say I think the pops sounds fantastic and was going to ask if I can make them louder, but you already answered it, thanks!

As you said, one more reason to get Yoshi's...

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post #36 of 49 Old 05-26-2016, 08:37 AM
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hi bro i saw found this post, is it worth to buy the pc3 for our lovely old bike? im quite satisfy her performance however if she can be the better

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post #37 of 49 Old 05-26-2016, 04:21 PM
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How much does a PC3 goes for nowadays? Do I have to sell an eyebrow or a toe or something to afford it?

Any good deal lurking in the bushes?

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post #38 of 49 Old 05-26-2016, 04:44 PM
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Paging LDH....

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post #39 of 49 Old 05-26-2016, 06:08 PM
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post #40 of 49 Old 05-26-2016, 10:35 PM
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I have stock cans, will be replacing them but with the PCIII have no popping issues in any range accelerating or decelerating.

The PIAR mod may help but honestly I cant help thinking the map is not really matched to your cans. YMMV on that. I would go to a local shop that does dyno tuning and have them make you a map for your cans. Proly costs a lil bit. Oh well. I have spent so much on my 9er I dont really care anymore about one more bite.

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