Pain vs. Pleasure - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 28 Old 09-18-2009, 10:17 PM Thread Starter
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Pain vs. Pleasure

This isn't going to be what you were hoping... The local shops have some used bikes for sale that point out how painful it can be to buy certain bikes (and need to sell them later) versus certain other bikes. There is a low mileage (like 2000ish) Hypermotard, perfect with extras, at a local shop for an asking price of just over $8000. There is a KTM 950 SM, low miles (about 1200) and perfect, profoundly cheap. There is a Duc S4R, haven't seen it in person (but is looks perfect and has really low miles) and they just want an offer. For someone that paid retail for one of these things could be really, really painful. In contrast, the little Ninja 250's and SV650's, in my area, bring great resale prices. And, no, I don't want to talk about my ZX10, because literbikes have taken a terrible hit over the past 2 years... It is a weird world we live in.

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post #2 of 28 Old 09-18-2009, 10:35 PM
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its the gas mileage and rideability that are making the sv's and the quarter ninjas so popular...

but to someone with disposible income they could mop up on some sweet deals up there....

damn i wish i had 8g's and time to ride one back...



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post #3 of 28 Old 09-18-2009, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
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The gas mileage sure has helped to keep the values up on some (most) of the 250's. The Hyper is one of my favorite bikes ever, but I couldn't insure it and the 10 (not without a very pissed off wife). But, the Hyper price isn't a fluke price up here, there was an S model with Termi's a few months back for an asking price of 10k. Also, a couple of the guys who bought the first Streetfighters wanted to trade them in on the first Brutale 1078's down the street and could get a trade-in offer over 10K. It is crazy! On a side note, the first 1078 sold by the MV shop was sitting on the rack Thursday night. The owner, new rider, wrecked it with 76 miles on the Odo. Great first bike, if you have more money than anything else...........

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post #4 of 28 Old 09-18-2009, 11:39 PM
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I think it's more than just the mileage. At least directly. Thing is, nobody makes starter bikes any more. A friend of mine tells me he wants to start riding street bikes, but with the world full of racing bikes, what can I steer him towards? The same little Ninjas and SV650's, that's what, unless I want to put him on one of those little Shadows.

What I'd really like to put him on would be a nice, modern CB450 class bike. Maybe 40hp. Plenty fast enough, but not insane. He rides it for two years, sells it back for 70% of what he paid, then buys whatever bike he really wants when he's got most of the skills to ride it with some measure of safety.

But I can't tell him to buy that bike, because it doesn't exist. I guess starter bikes don't sell, only racer wannabe bikes.

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post #5 of 28 Old 09-19-2009, 06:23 AM
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post #6 of 28 Old 09-19-2009, 06:29 AM
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The local Honda dealer has an '09 KTM 690 Enduro R with 1700 miles on it, like new, asking price $7299. Retail was over $10,000, thought the price was surprisingly fair for a dealer known for its high markup.

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post #7 of 28 Old 09-19-2009, 07:35 AM
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Or a Yamaha WR250X. Same HP as a DRZSM, lighter weight and nimbler. Plus its new techno instead of 10yr old techno on the DRZ's. You can pick them up cheap on CL.

Playing hooligan on a 08 Husky SM610 and WR250X.

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post #8 of 28 Old 09-19-2009, 08:29 AM
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how about

2009 Yamaha FZ6 Home, information, info

'04 Honda 919, Candy apple red met., 17/44t sprockets,f-16 windscreen,delkevic ss exhaust,Tharbars,givi engine bars, billet alum. led turns w/ running lights,red adj.levers from china, bar end mirrors,grip heaters,adj. foot peg brackets,adj. bar risers,dunlop Q2(that are better than your pp 2ct,lol)bike wired for gps and phone charger
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post #9 of 28 Old 09-19-2009, 08:52 AM
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How's this for depreciation? A friend has a 2005 Aprilia Tuono R, retail price was $17,999. He has it listed on craigslist for $6300 and can't get a bite.

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post #10 of 28 Old 09-19-2009, 09:27 AM
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also honda makes the crf230m................

15hp of arm wrenching acceleration


and cycle world got 93mpg with it in a test.... i think they will give you one if you buy 4 tshirts....



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post #11 of 28 Old 09-19-2009, 10:00 AM Thread Starter
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Barton, I had to buy 5 t-shirts (two of which were Ducati and they never fit right) and a mouse pad to get my WR250X, but it is getting 31rwhp and is really fun.

That Tuono depreciation is scary. The local Ape dealer always buys new-old stock bikes and sells them for silly prices, which of course makes the values of the bikes bought first next to zero.

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post #12 of 28 Old 09-19-2009, 02:42 PM
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"Let's get down to brass tacks. How much for the ape?"


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post #13 of 28 Old 09-19-2009, 07:56 PM
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I got a 2009 a little over a month ago, a lot of fun despite the lack of power compared to my 919. I got 69 mpg on a 225 mile trip in Shenandoah (mostly up and down Skyline Drive) usually get 60 mpg+. I think, in spite of it's 35" seat height, it would be a good starter because of it's 321 lb wet weight...relatively big front brake, real nice inverted forks, fully adjustable suspension with nearly 11" travel, tolerable for short highway trips, lots of aftermarket items. If it had fuel injection like the WR it'd be nearly perfect for a 400.

And I'm not a big time hooligan, but when I rode in last night, I did chase a cottontail around the front yard.

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post #14 of 28 Old 09-19-2009, 08:23 PM
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Looks like it wouldn't make a bad first bike for my friend, but I've never done any sort of offroad riding (with a seat height of 35", I'd have to wear disco platform shoes to reach the ground, but he could probably manage it), so somebody tell me the main differences in riding for an offroad-style bike and a regular street bike.

Some of the photos for those offroad-inspired bikes show folks steering by planting a foot on the inside of the turn. That's a bad habit to learn for street bikes.

Also, how much difference is there in riding a bike with a front end that has 11 or more inches of travel? I assume that means the springs are very light. If you're not climbing stairs with them, what good is that on the street?

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post #15 of 28 Old 09-19-2009, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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The DRZ and WR250X can both be ridden exactly like any other streetbike, with regards to technique. I haven't seen anyone, other than the folks that ride/race the hardcore supermotos, using the foot out technique. Given that the bikes are light and have tremendous traction (and not a lot of HP), they tend to be fairly easy to ride, and as the rider gets better they have tremendous abilities in the corners (the bikes that is).

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post #16 of 28 Old 09-19-2009, 09:34 PM
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I never rode dirt either. These are Motards, or Supermotos, and are setup primarily for street, and do well in the rugged urban environment or the twisties/country roads or as short distance commuters/general transportation. Even with street tires they will tear up a gravel road, but they really need a road of some sort, or if your a hooligan (not me of course) then a sidewalk, alley, closed road/construction area, grassy area, unpaved shoulder, roundabout curb...

I have a 31-32" max inseam and can manage to put a few pounds on each flat foot on perfectly level ground with my legs perfectly straight. Flat-footing is optional often I'm on 1 foot and not uncomfortable at all, and I'm far from an expert motorcyclist. In a way these are like mountain bikes with a motor, if you can handle a bicycle you can handle this. The additional height helps with visibility - looking over cars and thru SUV's. These are a piece of cake to load and unload into pickups, with ramps, without help.

As one of my mentors said after riding mine -"Every curve seems like a high speed sweeper." - meaning that you can wind these things out and it seems like your going faster than you really are. Get one in a real sweeper and you can change your line just by thinking about it.

Insurance is a third of a 919's.

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post #17 of 28 Old 09-19-2009, 10:49 PM
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The DRZ's are hard to beat, imo. I've got a '00 DRZ 400 s I use for dual sport riding, but I 've done a couple of 300 mile days on it. I think the SM version would be a good starter bike.
Suzuki makes an optional gel seat for it that shorter folks seem to like.

Regards the hit we take when buying new bikes. In '05 I bought a '04 BMW R1150 R Rockster from a Honda dealer for $8,000, including factory side cases. It had 1800 miles and new retail of probably $12,000. Two months ago I bought my perfect '07 919 with 2050 miles for $4,050. The deals are out there, if you don't need showroom new.

Someone mentioned insurance for the 919. I sold a '00 HD FXDX in order to buy the Honda and received a partial refund when I pulled the HD and added the 919.

RB

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post #18 of 28 Old 09-20-2009, 08:04 AM
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Yea. I got an 07 990 adventure for 9k!!! Its about 14k new and the guy had serveral thousand bucks worth of accesories. It had under 10k miles on it and I bet it was cleaner when I picked it up than when he bought it.

In contrast a friend of mine just bought an 800GS with similar accesories to my 990. He paid 17k to get it out the door new!!!!

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post #19 of 28 Old 09-20-2009, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
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Now, what will that BMW be worth in 2 years. I'm guessing KY will be a needed accessory.

17K for a BMW 800. Why?????????

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post #20 of 28 Old 09-20-2009, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Looks like it wouldn't make a bad first bike for my friend, but I've never done any sort of offroad riding (with a seat height of 35", I'd have to wear disco platform shoes to reach the ground, but he could probably manage it), so somebody tell me the main differences in riding for an offroad-style bike and a regular street bike.

Some of the photos for those offroad-inspired bikes show folks steering by planting a foot on the inside of the turn. That's a bad habit to learn for street bikes.

Also, how much difference is there in riding a bike with a front end that has 11 or more inches of travel? I assume that means the springs are very light. If you're not climbing stairs with them, what good is that on the street?

My girl Kate rides her WR2fiddyx and she only has a 28" inseam. You ride the bikes just like any streetbike, there just ALOT more fun to ride locally vs streetbikes.

Playing hooligan on a 08 Husky SM610 and WR250X.

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post #21 of 28 Old 09-20-2009, 07:06 PM
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The 800 had lots of accessories (and its a bmw, so everything is an accesory) on it by the time he left the showroom. Plus tax and all that crap. The two bikes are just a good example of what this thread is about.

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post #22 of 28 Old 09-20-2009, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike View Post
Now, what will that BMW be worth in 2 years. I'm guessing KY will be a needed accessory.

17K for a BMW 800. Why?????????

Don't know about in 2 years but not so great after less than one...

09 BMW F800GS

BMW 2009 F800GS Like new 3K miles

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post #23 of 28 Old 09-21-2009, 07:18 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Don't know about in 2 years but not so great after less than one...

09 BMW F800GS

BMW 2009 F800GS Like new 3K miles
Now that has to HURT!!!

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post #24 of 28 Old 09-21-2009, 08:33 AM
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Couple more years and the price should be in my range!

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post #25 of 28 Old 09-21-2009, 10:27 AM
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Well I know what it's like to not have a bite on a bike for sale. Doesnt look like anything is selling right now.

On my 2nd niner! 2wheels are better than 4
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post #26 of 28 Old 09-21-2009, 11:17 AM
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In my area, too many people set out to buy a liter bike and realize it is too much to handle or the payment is too much and they don't ride enough and put it on the market.

When you can buy a bike that's 2 to 3k less than MSRP and only have 2k less miles on it... Does not make sense to buy a new one. And high mileage ones really suffer resales.

This kind of thing is happening to the 600 now as well. I put 9000 miles in 6 months on my 600rr that I bought brand new in 08. I see local craiglist with 07 or 08 600rr with 400 miles on the clock for 6500... meanwhile brand new from dealership still cost you 8-9k.

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post #27 of 28 Old 09-21-2009, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogazilla View Post
In my area, too many people set out to buy a liter bike and realize it is too much to handle or the payment is too much and they don't ride enough and put it on the market.
Just out of curiosity, what percentage of people can actually ride a liter bike to its full potential? What percentage of the people who even make the effort to get it on the track in the first place?

[/QUOTE] When you can buy a bike that's 2 to 3k less than MSRP and only have 2k less miles on it... Does not make sense to buy a new one. And high mileage ones really suffer resales.

This kind of thing is happening to the 600 now as well. I put 9000 miles in 6 months on my 600rr that I bought brand new in 08. I see local craiglist with 07 or 08 600rr with 400 miles on the clock for 6500... meanwhile brand new from dealership still cost you 8-9k. [/QUOTE]

resale value is a factor if you are planning on selling it, no? sounds like you are really happy with it....

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post #28 of 28 Old 09-24-2009, 05:35 PM
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Yea those beamers area a better price than MSRP but not by much. Gotta ad 2k or so for stainless saddle bags plus another grand for taxes. Still, 13-14k is still cheaper than 17.

I love used bikes. Only way I'll buy new is if its a totally new bike and there are no used available. Got my 07 600rr last year for under 7k, my 07 990 for 9k. Thats 16k worth of bikes that wouldd have cost 24k new.

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