Opinions are great but... - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 49 Old 10-31-2006, 11:21 AM Thread Starter
 
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Opinions are great but...

Jetblast10 said elsewhere, "opinions are great but this situation isn't really getting resolved in this thread. you guys are welcome to take it offline and settle things behind closed doors and, as always, hope the outcome is fair and equitable."

Certainly, you have the right to close threads as you see fit. However, just FYI, I've been trying to resolve this issue for 3 months "behind closed doors" with no success. That's why I finally posted something for others to see. It can not be resolved in private because Bock919 has indicated he will not communicate further with me. I could take him to small claims court, where I would win, but I'd have to go out of state to do so, and that is just too much trouble to bother.

What options does that leave me? None.

I am now signing off, and seeing the level of support Bock919 has here, I don't know if I will ever return. So, it's resolved: he "wins".

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post #2 of 49 Old 10-31-2006, 11:28 AM
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post #3 of 49 Old 10-31-2006, 11:40 AM
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Against my better judgment, I'll post one more opinion. Never, ever, ever buy something online before first knowing exactly what you are getting, from whom, and make sure you have all return agreement and the buyer's contact information before sending funds. This information would have saved the need to use the forum as a grievance vehicle. Live and learn....

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post #4 of 49 Old 10-31-2006, 11:47 AM
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The threads were closed. Not deleted. It had the effect you intended, everyone saw it and Bock responded. Reasonable positions were posted from both sides and the thread stalemated.

I don't know you. I don't know Bock. I've not PM'd with either of you nor anyone speaking on your behalf. I know someone has reached out to you both and is offering to help settle it amicably. I didn't see the seat before shipping or upon arrival, and neither did anyone else on this board - save two people.

For all I know Bock's completely unreasonable.
For all I know you're completely unreasonable.
It's a forum board on the internet, for all I know the whole thing is unreasonable.

More bantering opinions weren't going anywhere so that's why I closed the threads. Personally I really do hope you both are satisfied with the outcome and justice is served.

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post #5 of 49 Old 10-31-2006, 11:48 AM
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If you didn't have in writing he would insure it...you would not win the case. It sucks having stuff damaged by freighters. I see their drivers abuse stuff all the time! Note to the self, use extreme bubble wrap and over insure everything...

Is the seat comfortable? If not you should consider having the foam reworked by the MFG while getting a new cover.

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post #6 of 49 Old 10-31-2006, 01:19 PM
 
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I do not know either party involved. From what I've read here, from what each party has offered to make public; I see no problem what so ever with what rb919 has done other than take a jab at Bock919 in his initial post. I would hope that the opinions, and typical belittling that some people seem to find entertaining would not keep either one from being a member of this community. I would hope that there could be a GENERAL discussion of possible scenarios invovled with shipment of good purchased online. From this general discussion perhaps we could come to a concensus or at least learn a better way to do business.

I for one believe that if I have payed a seller for an item, and that payment included shipment, then it is the responsiblilty of the seller to get the item to me as described. The insurance is offered to the person sending the item, not to the person receiving. What else can a buyer do? Only pay for the item, then make arrangements for the item to be picked up by a third party from the seller? I suppose then the shipper is an agent of the buyer, and the only due diligence would be to ensure the shipper inspects the item upon receipt from the seller. Is that a reasonable way to do business?

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post #7 of 49 Old 10-31-2006, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gbord View Post
I do not know either party involved. From what I've read here, from what each party has offered to make public; I see no problem what so ever with what rb919 has done other than take a jab at Bock919 in his initial post. I would hope that the opinions, and typical belittling that some people seem to find entertaining would not keep either one from being a member of this community. I would hope that there could be a GENERAL discussion of possible scenarios invovled with shipment of good purchased online. From this general discussion perhaps we could come to a concensus or at least learn a better way to do business.

I for one believe that if I have payed a seller for an item, and that payment included shipment, then it is the responsiblilty of the seller to get the item to me as described. The insurance is offered to the person sending the item, not to the person receiving. What else can a buyer do? Only pay for the item, then make arrangements for the item to be picked up by a third party from the seller? I suppose then the shipper is an agent of the buyer, and the only due diligence would be to ensure the shipper inspects the item upon receipt from the seller. Is that a reasonable way to do business?
you must be reciting this from NPR.....

+ $5

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post #8 of 49 Old 10-31-2006, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gbord View Post
I for one believe that if I have payed a seller for an item, and that payment included shipment, then it is the responsiblilty of the seller to get the item to me as described.
Then you have absolutely no issue when the seller requires YOU to pay for insurance, right?

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post #9 of 49 Old 11-02-2006, 05:01 PM
 
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I'm not sure that requires is the right word. Your right, having everything discussed and probably in writing is the way to go. Maybe I'm being idealistic, but again, if I pay the seller to include shipping, then the seller should be responsible up to the point of delivery. It is the seller that purchases the insurance, which implies that they are the responsible party. If they were not responsible, they wouldn't need insurance.

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post #10 of 49 Old 11-02-2006, 06:45 PM
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Gbord makes a good point.....

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post #11 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 03:54 AM
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The seller is not responsible for the carrier's quality of service. If I ship you a crystal vase, and UPS drops it en route, is it my fault? Nope. It's UPS's fault. I've had many eBay transactions where the seller required insurance as part of the shipping cost.

If the item is costly or fragile, I insist on paying insurance. It's a couple bucks normally. Isn't it worth the piece of mind? It is for me. Just my .02 though...

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post #12 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 04:38 AM Thread Starter
 
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The buyer is responsible for paying money to the seller, and the seller is responsible for delivering the product to the buyer. The seller subcontracts the shipper to deliver the product. If there is a problem with delivery, that problem is resolved between the seller and the shipper. Many of you are confused by the fact that the seller and the buyer can agree, if they want to, for the buyer to assume the risks of shipping-- that is what happens if the buyer is offered a choice whether or not to insure. If a choice is offered, and the buyer chooses not to pay for insurance, then the buyer has chosen to assume the risk of shiiping; otherwise, the seller must cover the risk of shipping.

In my case, I paid money to the seller. The seller thought the money was so important that he took time to make sure that my check cleared the bank before he shipped the item. However, the seller then decided that the item was not so important that it was worth insuring. (He did not ask me whether or not I wanted insurance. He made that decision himself, without consulting me, based on the fact that he hadn't had any previous problems with the shipper.) When I received the damaged item, the seller claimed his only responsibilty was to deliver the package to the shipper, and nothing else. That is totally wrong. The deal was: money in exchange for a good seat. The deal was not: money in exchange for carrying the package down to the shipper. I paid money; I didn't get the seat I paid for. He got his money, but did not deliver the seat I paid for. This is an extremely simple case of breach of contract.

Imagine if the seller was any store and you are the buyer. Imagine you bought your wife a seat from the store and it arrived damaged. Image you called the store and they told you, "It's not our responsibility, take it up with the shipper." Imaginge you called the shipper and they told you to send the seat back to the store for a refund or exchange, because their obligation is to the seller who, by the way, didn't even bother to insure the package. Imagine you called the seller again, saying you want to return the seat and get your money back, and he told you "I can't accept those terms."

Imagine this has been going on for three months.

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post #13 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 04:44 AM
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rb919... It's nice to see you here and I mean that in a sincere way.

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post #14 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rb919 View Post
The buyer is responsible for paying money to the seller, and the seller is responsible for delivering the product to the buyer.
I whole heartedly agree. - the seller should also charge accordingly for this. If I order a dishwasher from Best Buy and it gets delivered damaged, is it my problem? To me, if it were accepted that product condition upon arrival is no concern of the shipper, I will never buy from private party again. I expect to get what I pay for. As commented in another thread, use your CC when using paypal. If it comes damaged, send it back and dispute the charge.

However, this discussion really should stay generic. The last few threads were locked when playing the blame game in a thread.

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post #15 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 05:12 AM
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DHL insures every package up to $100 by default. There is no extra charge for this. And you can pursue this with them rb. Other carriers have similar default insurance. Additional insurance is .70 per $100 of value. So for a three hundred dollar item, the additional expense is $2.10. As mentioned previously, if it's something fragile or of value, it's best to insist on insurance. Too bad that something so simple could go so wrong when the solution was so easy.

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post #16 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m51142 View Post
rb919... It's nice to see you here and I mean that in a sincere way.
Yea, good to see ya sticking around. I am staying out of this other than to say I have had great luck both buying and selling things to members of this board, even right when I joined. And I still think it is home to some of the most stand up individuals on the internet. Hope you guys get this resolved and all can continue to hang out here

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post #17 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
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DHL insures every package up to $100 by default. There is no extra charge for this. And you can pursue this with them rb.
I wish that were true, but it is not quite right. The $100 of free insurance is given to the seller, not to the buyer. DHL has a business relationship with the seller only, because it is the seller that gave them the package and paid them to ship it, and it is the seller that decided how much insurance he wanted at the time he gave it to them, and it is the seller that has to prove the value of the package if there is any damage. If there is damage, and the seller can document the value of the package contents, then DHL will pay up to $100 to the seller, not to the buyer (and they will pay more if the seller chose to insure the package for more). That is why DHL says to send the package back to the seller for refund or replacement. So, I can not pursue this further with DHL.

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post #18 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 11:34 AM
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I really wish this thread would die.

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post #19 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 12:02 PM
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Okay... I have seriously missed something here. What thread is this all about ?!?!

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post #20 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
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Okay... I have seriously missed something here. What thread is this all about ?!?!
Genetic engineering involving the production of recombinant DNA.




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post #21 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 12:07 PM
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WE talking about O.J?

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post #22 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 12:09 PM
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WE talking about O.J?
Yes........Now it's your turn to contribute




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post #23 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 12:10 PM
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WE talking about O.J?
geeessh no one said anything about orange juice

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post #24 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 12:45 PM
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The kids drink sunny dee.

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post #25 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 12:53 PM
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The kids drink sunny dee.
...which goes really good with Grey Goose

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post #26 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 12:59 PM
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...which goes really good with Grey Goose
Mixing with the Goose is blasphemy!




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post #27 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 01:03 PM
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Mixing with the Goose is blasphemy!
But I love OJ for breakfast!

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post #28 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 01:22 PM
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It's good at breakfast, with a tad of Sky.

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post #29 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 01:28 PM
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Or Absolut?

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post #30 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 01:34 PM
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a lesson learned....by both. I'm sure neither one will make that mistake again.....The world is now a happy place.

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post #31 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 01:57 PM
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Nope... the world is not a better place yet! I still don't know what the heck is going on!!!!

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post #32 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 01:59 PM
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It's Friday. It's a better place right now. Have some Saki I'm headed for the Merlot myself....

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post #33 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 02:00 PM
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Its all about a parts sale gone bad between two forum members....uninsured piece damaged during shiping

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post #34 of 49 Old 11-03-2006, 02:53 PM
 
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Well really it's just a general discussion about online shipping and transactions.

I'm starting to think that really it is the shipping company that takes advantage of the "common" way to do business. If something does happen during transit, and the buyer returns the package, then they are without the item and their money. The seller now has to deal with the shipping company; how is the seller supposed to know how the package arrived? The only thing that they can base a claim on is what the buyer says. The seller thought the transaction was over and now has more to deal with.

Let's say, as the buyer, I contact a Fedex (or whoever) store in the sellers area. I tell them that the seller will be dropping off an item to the store that I want them to inspect, package and ship. Yes, with insurance. If something should happen, the claim would then be with me and I get the money directly. The seller doesn't really have anything extra to do, actually less in that they don't have to do the packaging. Having paid with a credit card via Paypal, should I decide that the item is not in the condition agreed upon and the seller does not want to refund my money, I can send Paypal and the credit card co. after them. Now I have had this on my mind way to long, so I am going to think about nothing but beer and riding my motorcycle at VIR until Tuesday evening. Later

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post #35 of 49 Old 11-04-2006, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
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But I love OJ for breakfast!
I really love B.J. for breakfast. Going to crawl back in bed any moment.

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post #36 of 49 Old 11-04-2006, 03:38 AM
 
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Did you guys know that Sunny D won't solidify in the freezer section of your refrigerator? It does expand the can a bit and make for great orange bombs, but it just won't freeze.

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post #37 of 49 Old 11-04-2006, 09:04 AM
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I really love B.J. for breakfast. Going to crawl back in bed any moment.
Are you......... "serving"........Breakfast?

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post #38 of 49 Old 11-04-2006, 09:25 AM
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Seller is responsible for insuring the item. It's just the way it is. It didn't happen here and now two guys are in a pissing match. I sold all my 929 stuff. I insured it for over what I sold it for. If the buyer would have told the seller and the seller would have complained of shipping damage, bang!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the insurance is there. I've shipped guns this way. You think I would ship a 1000 dollar pistol without insuring the sob? Same thing with a bundle of pencils!(only the carrier will waive up to 100bucks)

Hey, Mid was involved in that stink with the fukball of a guy Sev up in Canada. That was a couple years back. It will never get solved, but the man has moved on down the road long ago. I suggest that your efforts be put towards better things. Personally, I think you got hosed and I'd not buy from Bock after reading all this stuff.
I would not hesitate to trade with others here and have already done so.

My last suggestions are split all costs down the middle, then go your seperate ways. Or hunt each other down and have an old fashioned duel.

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post #39 of 49 Old 11-04-2006, 05:59 PM
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I do an amazing amount of buying through eBay and the like. I ALWAYS assume that unless I asked for insurance I don't have any. It's my opinion that unless you ask for it, it’s your bad luck if the package ends up damaged. To assume that the seller is not to be trusted to buy things from, is equally asinine as to assume that he repay the buyer in full. I am sure there is common ground for both, making stupid comments like "Personally, I think you got hosed and I'd not buy from Bock after reading all this stuff. " will not help the matter or the people involved. I would suggest that if you cannot help the situation then remove yourself from it and abstain from comments that may inflame the situation.

Please ADMIN let this topic die, or take it out of its misery.

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post #40 of 49 Old 11-04-2006, 08:06 PM
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Let me say it again, Personally I think he got hosed. I won't be purchasing anything from Bock. You got a problem with that, don't you. I don't give a shiit what you have bought or sold on ebay. The guy came here looking for support and or a solution. What the fuk did you offer him but a pibbly piss ant plea for 'peace'?(more like piece-o-sheattt)



My quote: "My last suggestions are split all costs down the middle, then go your seperate ways. Or hunt each other down and have an old fashioned duel."


Now, go and practice putting your words in somebody elses mouth on another frikken forum.

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