No tail light (running light). Need some help please. - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 39 Old 07-30-2010, 04:05 AM Thread Starter
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No tail light (running light). Need some help please.

03 919, around 18.5k miles. No modification to the tail light. Never had any work done in that area.
this morning I noticed that no lights were on at the rear when the bike was idling.
the running light and both blinker were all off. (I am not 100% sure, but I think the 'red' light and both blinkers should be on when power is on, correct?)
The brake light is fine when I apply brake. The signals (both sides) are also fine when I turned them on. But they are all off when I turn the power on or when the bike is idling.
could this be a problem on the fuse? any one had this problem before?

Thanks for the help.

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post #2 of 39 Old 07-30-2010, 04:46 AM
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I believe the ambers are all off when blinkers are off, and yeah the reds should be on all the time. Have an extra bulb you can test with? I don't think it'll be the fuse but it can't hurt to check (easier than bulbs...)

FYI I end up replacing atleast 1 bulb every time I pull the tail apart (damn I hope I'm done doing that!)

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post #3 of 39 Old 07-30-2010, 05:19 AM
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Sounds like it may be the fuse. If it's good, then you might pull the tail light lens and a bulb, then check with a multitester to see if your running light circuit is getting power (there are two + contacts @ the socket base--check 'em both, as only one will have power to it w/o the brake applied). The bulbs are dual filament, and the running lights (5w) are on a separate circuit from the brake lights (21w). It's highly unlikely that you would lose BOTH running light filaments in both bulbs, while retaining the brake light filaments. FWIW, federal regulations prohibit the use of amber running lights from the rear of a vehicle, so no, the turns won't be lit unless you're signalling a turn. Let us know what you find....

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post #4 of 39 Old 07-30-2010, 05:44 AM
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Well there you go! Glad to know theres someone else here from san antonio that knows a bit about bikes I'm almost due for my 15k check-up, feel like helping out Shaman?

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post #5 of 39 Old 07-30-2010, 05:49 AM
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The rear blinkers are single filament meaning no running lights. The front blinkers are dual filament meaning signal directional and running lights.

OK...2nd cup of coffee kicking in. The two bulbs located in the tail light are dual filament, each bulb will illuminate brakes and tail lights. Check Jim's reply. look of the obvious first.

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post #6 of 39 Old 07-30-2010, 06:06 AM
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You most likely have two rear lights out.

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post #7 of 39 Old 07-30-2010, 06:38 AM Thread Starter
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thanks

Thanks guys. I will check the bulbs first.
MisterMike, if I understand correctly, the rear signals should only be on when I switch them on (turn right or left). They shouldn't be on all time like the front signals. Am I correct?
And, there are two bulbs for rear (red) running light?

Thanks again.

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post #8 of 39 Old 07-30-2010, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnstc View Post
Thanks guys. I will check the bulbs first.
MisterMike, if I understand correctly, the rear signals should only be on when I switch them on (turn right or left). They shouldn't be on all time like the front signals. Am I correct?
And, there are two bulbs for rear (red) running light?

Thanks again.
*the rear signals should only be on when I switch them on (turn right or left). They shouldn't be on all time like the front signals. Am I correct? Correct

*there are two bulbs for rear (red) running light? Correct

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post #9 of 39 Old 07-30-2010, 06:48 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you. I will check the bulbs first thing when I get home and report back.

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post #10 of 39 Old 07-30-2010, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnstc View Post
Thank you. I will check the bulbs first thing when I get home and report back.
The bulbs are #7443


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post #11 of 39 Old 07-30-2010, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beefsalad View Post
Well there you go! Glad to know theres someone else here from san antonio that knows a bit about bikes I'm almost due for my 15k check-up, feel like helping out Shaman?
(Blatant threadjack alert...) Sure, glad to help if I can. I'm actually in up here in Schertz (but nobody knows where that is unless they're going 0.003 MPH over the speed limit, then the local gendarmes will happily educate them... ) PM me sometime...

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post #12 of 39 Old 07-30-2010, 07:47 AM Thread Starter
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wow .. even the part numbers .. Thanks! I really appreciate it.
on a side note, #7443, is that like a standard? if I go to autozone and say I need some #7443 bulbs, will they be scratching their heads? or ... ?

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post #13 of 39 Old 07-30-2010, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnstc View Post
wow .. even the part numbers .. Thanks! I really appreciate it.
on a side note, #7443, is that like a standard? if I go to autozone and say I need some #7443 bulbs, will they be scratching their heads? or ... ?
It's a standard bulb size/configuration (7443-> wedge base, dual filament; other examples: 7440-> same wedge base, single filament, 1156/1157-> round (bayonet) base, single/dual filament, etc).

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post #14 of 39 Old 07-30-2010, 12:04 PM
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remember with ALL diagnostics: easiest, cheapest, FIRST. like when a 2stroke is running punky, why WOULDN'T you throw a spark plug at it?? if you don't have a voltmeter you basically HAVE to try bulbs. worst case scenario is you have 2 extra bulbs in stock in your garage. which probably will fit other vehicles of yours too.

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post #15 of 39 Old 07-30-2010, 02:55 PM
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For ANY (even the slightest possibility) electrical issues, always look at power first...

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post #16 of 39 Old 07-30-2010, 03:15 PM
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one of the easiest ways to look at power is to try a new known good bulb.
no?

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post #17 of 39 Old 07-30-2010, 05:11 PM
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I was thinking multimeter but a bulb would work too...(I'm used to having a meter and test light that not everyone has at their disposal)

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post #18 of 39 Old 07-31-2010, 07:08 AM
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stick your tounge on the end of the wires to check for power.

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post #19 of 39 Old 07-31-2010, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dukeriley View Post
stick your tounge on the end of the wires to check for power.
+1!

But first put a video camera on a tripod!

If you don't have that dexterity, use a VOM.

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post #20 of 39 Old 07-31-2010, 02:14 PM Thread Starter
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problem solved

Thanks guys! I picked up a pair of #7443 from autozone .. problem solved.
One thing tho, I don't know why Honda designed it that way: it seems that the running lights won't work unless both bulbs are good. It turned out that one of the bulbs was bad. No matter which side I put the good bulb on, the running lights wouldn't work. But as soon as I put in another good bulb, the running lights started working again. But not so for the brake lights (brake light still worked when only 1 bulb is in place regardless which side). Is there any particular reason for this?

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post #21 of 39 Old 07-31-2010, 03:16 PM
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They're wired in series instead of parallel, Honda saved $.02 on wire...

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post #22 of 39 Old 08-01-2010, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmb View Post
They're wired in series instead of parallel, Honda saved $.02 on wire...
Parallel wired... Look at the 919 wiring diagram.

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post #23 of 39 Old 08-01-2010, 02:19 PM
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I personally think its a safety thing too, what are you more likely to notice driving down the road, that your tail light is out or that your running lights in front of you are out.

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post #24 of 39 Old 08-01-2010, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMike View Post
Parallel wired... Look at the 919 wiring diagram.
Mr. Mike pawns you in a fly by!

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post #25 of 39 Old 08-01-2010, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMike View Post
Parallel wired... Look at the 919 wiring diagram.
Didn't look at the diagram, made the asumption since one bulb was good...

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post #26 of 39 Old 08-02-2010, 04:40 AM Thread Starter
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"parallel wired" ... so does that mean if one goes bad, the other one won't work?
Please educate me.
now that I think of it, before I replaced the bad bulb, the license light wasn't working either. But the license light is now working again.

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post #27 of 39 Old 08-02-2010, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnstc View Post
"parallel wired" ... so does that mean if one goes bad, the other one won't work?
Please educate me.
now that I think of it, before I replaced the bad bulb, the license light wasn't working either. But the license light is now working again.


However, all this fails to explain the loss of the license light and other tail light...anyone???


Far more exhaustive explanation: (if you're really curious or really bored...)
What are "series" and "parallel" circuits? : SERIES AND PARALLEL CIRCUITS

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post #28 of 39 Old 08-02-2010, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Shaman... exactly .. that did not explain why a bad bulb would fail the whole circuit. Or .. maybe my 919 is one of a kind?!

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post #29 of 39 Old 08-03-2010, 12:30 PM
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i'll be a dick and say, "do you ask santa claus every year why one burned christmas tree bulb knocks out the whole string" ?

i'm kidding around, but you get the point?

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post #30 of 39 Old 08-03-2010, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
i'll be a dick and say, "do you ask santa claus every year why one burned christmas tree bulb knocks out the whole string" ?

i'm kidding around, but you get the point?


If you have a corroded/minimal gauge common wire, a parallel low resistance aka shorted bulb could behave freaky.

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post #31 of 39 Old 08-04-2010, 09:57 AM
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he was asking why one bulb would take out a circuit. the answer is parallel vs series wiring. same as why one bulb takes out a whole string of xmas lights. or why the more expensive ones dont. you can't take the middle out of a garden hose and still have it work. (okay, you DO get a shorter, working hose. stop confusing the matter)

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post #32 of 39 Old 08-04-2010, 04:51 PM
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I agree, a shorted blb could do it.

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post #33 of 39 Old 08-04-2010, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmb View Post
I agree, a shorted blb could do it.
A shorted bulb would blow a fuse if wired in parallel. In series, it passes on the full current to the next load(s) in line. AKA, a piece of wire.

That applies for simple circuits. Parallel/series, for example, can take on a whole new concept. A parallel bulb could short, but since there are series powered loads downstream, the circuit may power without a short. It's then up to the current capacity of the series devices, as well as the current capacity in the "shorted" wires, which are typically in this case filament wires. Until proven otherwise, path of least resistance applies.

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post #34 of 39 Old 08-04-2010, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HondaJim View Post
A shorted bulb would blow a fuse if wired in parallel. In series, it passes on the full current to the next load(s) in line. AKA, a piece of wire.

That applies for simple circuits. Parallel/series, for example, can take on a whole new concept. A parallel bulb could short, but since there are series powered loads downstream, the circuit may power without a short. It's then up to the current capacity of the series devices, as well as the current capacity in the "shorted" wires, which are typically in this case filament wires. Until proven otherwise, path of least resistance applies.
Agreed, makes perfect sense, I wasn't thinking that far into it.

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post #35 of 39 Old 08-05-2010, 01:44 PM
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I blame this thread on me having to replace a light yesterday. Fortunately I noticed it before the Nazi LEO's that run around my office did. Either that or I just used enough throttle to keep them at bay.

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post #36 of 39 Old 08-06-2010, 06:15 AM
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If there is a 0.8ohm corrosive parallel common and bulb short, it could drop the common voltage to 8v without throwing the 10A fuse. But it dissipates a hundred watts, and would be confirmed feeling hot wires or an amp meter on the fuse... That's a lot more work than putting in a new bulb.

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post #37 of 39 Old 08-06-2010, 11:48 AM
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would it be wrong for me to now point out that a "shorted" bulb is a functioning bulb? an OPEN is a failure.

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post #38 of 39 Old 08-06-2010, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
would it be wrong for me to now point out that a "shorted" bulb is a functioning bulb? an OPEN is a failure.
Not necessarily, true an incandesant bulb is a "short", but, the filiment could short and conduct without lighting and have a lower resistance.

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post #39 of 39 Old 08-06-2010, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
would it be wrong for me to now point out that a "shorted" bulb is a functioning bulb? an OPEN is a failure.
I was oh so confused by this, when my tail lights continued to function with 1 'running' filament FUBAR. Then I remembered I have that flash regulator under the seat and I'm beginning to wonder if it's not the source of my problem. Here's the reasoning behind it. A couple of days ago I had to replace a bulb in the tail because of said bulb. Today I discover my turn signal has also taken a dump on me. Now I'm usually not suspect of things like this just randomly occurring, but this will be the 3rd bulb on that side in 6mo. 2 were from the cheap ass motrax/speedmetal indicators the other being a stock stop/running light. What erks me about the motrax/speedmetal crap is the lack of available replacements. They use non-standard bulbs :/ Actually it's probably a standard bulb, just soldered into an f'ed up base.

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