New Clutch - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 16 Old 09-13-2007, 11:10 AM Thread Starter
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New Clutch

So afetr a straight year of riding in the city i think my clut is really staring to go. It makes sense due to the rough riding poor street conditions and drag srip-esq take offs i sometimes do.

So a few questions

how much does a new clutch cost

do i need any special knowladge or tools to change it

should i expect any elays due to tricky things and little monsters messing things up that nobody can explain

thanks in advance

Pat McG

-Pat McG
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post #2 of 16 Old 09-13-2007, 12:03 PM
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screw the clutch...change that fookin chain/sprocket set

if u want to maybe save some $$$, u could pull the clutch and rough up the plates...extend the life a little <g>

barnett has a clutch pack & u can get heavier springs...if'n u'r spendin the $$

not too much to mess up, take pics if u want to keep it all straight but there ain't much to it....h9r posted some pics a ways back, not sure if they're on his website or not

all the usual stuff, pan underneath to catch anything that falls, bolts are springloaded, needle bearing, oil seals, the order of the discs, removin the stake from the center nut, bearing inspection yada yada yada

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post #3 of 16 Old 09-13-2007, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratdog View Post
screw the clutch...change that fookin chain/sprocket set
How will changing the chain and sprokets help? (I would be very happy if this is it cause thats cheap!)

Maybe i should describe my problems im having and why i think its the cluth:

-First the usual honda clunk is probably 5 times louder harder and jerkier then it has ever been and has been getting worse

-Shiffting between first and second up and down is pretty clunky while moving and not always the easiest to do sometimes somooth but others its like trying to lift up a brick or push down really hard.

-at a stop i absolutely (i mean it its impossible) cannot switch from 1st to nuetral. the only way i can is if i roll like 10 feet and find it through the clunks and bad clunks

I adjusted the clutch cable the other day i have between a 1/4 and 1/8 inch freeplay

What are your guys thoughts any of the GURUS wanna toss in there 12 cents.

-Pat McG
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post #4 of 16 Old 09-13-2007, 02:36 PM
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I'd be more inclined to think that's oil type/life, clutch cable adjustment or a tranny problem than clutch.

A worn clutch typically can be determined by getting the bike moving in 2nd or 3rd gear at low speed/rpm and then gassing it full throttle. If the clutch is worn it will slip, causing the rpms to rise without a matching rise in speed. It will head to redline real quick. Kinda easy to spot once you've had one wear on you.

Are you sure you're getting full travel. Sounds more like a cable adjustment issue.

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post #5 of 16 Old 09-13-2007, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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i pray its a clutch cable issue over what i fear to be a clutch or more likely a tranny issue...

since ive never done it befor how easy is it to break the teeth on a bikes gears? although tht probably isnt it cause then id have weird shifts.

ill check my cable later mybe its kinked or messed up somehow.

it is probably rusty from being outside 24/7

-Pat McG
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post #6 of 16 Old 09-13-2007, 04:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HondaJim View Post
Are you sure you're getting full travel. Sounds more like a cable adjustment issue.
+1, if your clutch cable has too much freeplay it will cause the clutch to be slightly engaged even if pulled in all the way. This results in very clunky neutral-to-first, and impossibility of finding neutral at a stop(the shifter will just jump between first and second right?)

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post #7 of 16 Old 09-13-2007, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patmicg View Post
How will changing the chain and sprokets help? (I would be very happy if this is it cause thats cheap!)

Maybe i should describe my problems im having and why i think its the cluth:

-First the usual honda clunk is probably 5 times louder harder and jerkier then it has ever been and has been getting worse

-Shiffting between first and second up and down is pretty clunky while moving and not always the easiest to do sometimes somooth but others its like trying to lift up a brick or push down really hard.

-at a stop i absolutely (i mean it its impossible) cannot switch from 1st to nuetral. the only way i can is if i roll like 10 feet and find it through the clunks and bad clunks

I adjusted the clutch cable the other day i have between a 1/4 and 1/8 inch freeplay

What are your guys thoughts any of the GURUS wanna toss in there 12 cents.
Based on what you have described, not being able to shift easily sounds like you are not getting full disengagement of your clutch when you pull the lever. If adjusted properly then look for excessive wear at the cable. You park your bike on the street and therefor are more susceptible to wear from corrosion and the elements. Water kills motorcycles. Look for both wear at the cable strands and cable sheath. If the cable is flexing then full clutch disengagement can not be achieved. This could also be causing your excessive clunk when you go into first and other gears, because the clutch is partially grabbing and sends all that energy through the final drive. Also check the lever pedestal and the bracket at the engine above the clutch cover. Worn discs cause slipping. Period. Changing the friction discs will not fix anything you have described. Changing the oil should smooth shifting as well.. but I doubt it's your issue. I would also check your chain adjustment, lube and/or replaced it and sprockets as needed. Excessive play in chain can add to the clunkiness your describe. Incidentally, if your clutch is not fully disengaging... In other words dragging when you pull the lever, you will soon need to replace the friction discs as well. Kind of ironic huh?

- Rev. CYCHO -

tires.... it's what's for dinner!
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post #8 of 16 Old 09-13-2007, 05:44 PM
 
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Alot of folks dont know about the adjustment down low - have you adjusted the lower end of the cable ? And if you have lubed it, grab some stuff called Dri Slide - Its a dry lube that wont attract sand/dirt/crap into your cable like the oil based lubes - it works miricles in alot of cases.

Please dont consider this an insult to your knowledge or abilities - Its totally not ment like that -

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post #9 of 16 Old 09-13-2007, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ohno View Post
Alot of folks dont know about the adjustment down low - have you adjusted the lower end of the cable ? And if you have lubed it, grab some stuff called Dri Slide - Its a dry lube that wont attract sand/dirt/crap into your cable like the oil based lubes - it works miricles in alot of cases.

Please dont consider this an insult to your knowledge or abilities - Its totally not ment like that -
I dont at all i actually hadn't thought about the down low adjustment i know its there but it slipped my mind. the more you guys talk about the cable adjustment it seems thats what it is. last time i changed my levers the cable wasnt looking so great.

I think im going to spring for a new cluth cable first chance i get and for the mean time to pick up some lube and make the adjustments neccicery


much appreciation to all who answwered

-Pat McG
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post #10 of 16 Old 09-13-2007, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patmicg View Post
I dont at all i actually hadn't thought about the down low adjustment i know its there but it slipped my mind. the more you guys talk about the cable adjustment it seems thats what it is. last time i changed my levers the cable wasnt looking so great.

I think im going to spring for a new cluth cable first chance i get and for the mean time to pick up some lube and make the adjustments neccicery


much appreciation to all who answwered
The thing to remember about the lower adjustment is that it essentially does the same thing as the top adjuster. The idea being you screw in the top adjuster all the way.. adjust it 90 - 95% of spec at the bottom then use the thumb wheel adjuster at the top to fine tune your clutch adjustment and adjust on the fly as your needs change due to wear and temperature.

Lubing your cable is great advice. I finally got a cable lube device and the spray that come with it at the beginning of the season this year. I have used it on several cables with phenomenal results. Frees up stiff and chewy cables in mere minutes and in the case of clutches, makes them much easier to actuate and improves feedback. Even a new cable will benefit from proper lubing as it will undoubtedly add life to the cable by displacing moisture that will potentially enter the cable and it adds significant slickness to the movement of the cable. Highly recommended!

- Rev. CYCHO -

tires.... it's what's for dinner!
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post #11 of 16 Old 09-15-2007, 12:07 AM
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Clutch redux

The possibility of this being a trans problem, at least at the moment, is remote. That said, if you continue to use it in this condition damage to the gear engagement dogs is almost certain, especially to 1st and 2nd.
There are several things which could cause the symptoms you describe:
1 -- One or more heat warped pressure (plain steel) plates, or a fractured judder spring.
2 -- A serious kink in the clutch cable outer housing using up a goodly percentage of the cable travel before the casing coils pack up and deliver motion to the release arm, and will also result in increased lever effort as the cable tries to bend sharply to conform to the outer housing at the kink. This can be easily confirmed by a visual inspection of the entire length of the cable. Lubrication will help decrease lever effort, but will not cure the basic problem.
3 -- A section of friction material has come adrift and wedged itself between a friction disc and pressure plate, partially locking up the clutch regardless of what you do with the lever.
4 -- The outer basket needle bearing cage has fragged, binding the housing to the mainshaft (I fervently hope this is not the case because it usually trashes the shaft!)
5 -- A fractured or cupped thrust washer between the inner and outer baskets, or the oil/water pump drive sprocket engagement teeth damaged. Neither of these is likely.
A quick test: overadjust the clutch cable about 1 full turn past zero free play, then ride it. If the symptoms improve causes 1 or 2 can be assumed. If it does not change, time to yank the cover and inspect things. Unfortunately, you have to remove the staked nut holding the center basket to the mainshaft to get at the plates, and I have no idea what size hex it is other than it is a 22mm thread. Once the inner basket is removed any plates warped enough to bind up the clutch can be easily seen.
This should give you a start toward fixing the problem, and to reiterate: the longer you operate it in this condition, the greater the likelihood of trans damage, so fix it ASAP!
Good luck.

Rob

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post #12 of 16 Old 09-15-2007, 01:52 AM
 
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Hi, newby here on an '03...

What should the sprockets be? I just got a 17 for the front, presently running stock. I bought it 'cause the speedo is about 20&#37; off. Am I on the right track?

JR

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post #13 of 16 Old 09-17-2007, 07:43 AM
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16/43 stock

17 better for cruising, a little loss in the low end pull but rewarded w/ lower cruising rpm's that lessen the 'hornet buzz' a tad

pat, i was just breakin ballz cause your chain/sprockets need some TLC
(not that the guy who showed up at the ne wt bbq w/ a freakin bald tire should be sayin something....dang those ct twisties, trashed the last .03mm of good rubber i had left)

i'd also listen to what the gang was sayin about adjusting everything b4 tacklin the clutch...which isn't at all tricky btw

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post #14 of 16 Old 09-17-2007, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratdog View Post
(not that the guy who showed up at the ne wt bbq w/ a freakin bald tire should be sayin something....dang those ct twisties, trashed the last .03mm of good rubber i had left)
Love those CT twisties!

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post #15 of 16 Old 09-17-2007, 04:22 PM
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miss those CT twisties ! another reason why i drag race now: alaska doesn't have that many good motorcycle roads.

i drag race all year long with a stock honda clutch. i see no need to go with barnett, and i've heard from quite a few people that honda makes a better clutch than they do.

if you DO replace the clutch, one thing that everyone's neglected to tell you is that there are 3 different part numbers for friction plates: one for the innermost, one for the outermost, and the middle ones are all the same.

i think you may have too much cable slack, and you might also have some chain issues going on.

said it before and i'll say it again: less often is it Honda's fault ! (not likely internal, unless continued operation with incorrect clutch cable slack caused internal consequences)

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post #16 of 16 Old 09-17-2007, 10:24 PM Thread Starter
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well i finally had a nice enough day to get out and spend some time with the bike and your you guys were right it was the cable slack. it was way off so i did a temporary fix of tightening it. i call this temporary becuase when i did a little further inspection of the cable i found out that it was rusting around the adjusters at the lever and its looking pretty shabby. does anyone have to part number for the clutch cable and any parts i need to repllace it. i lost my honda manual pdf file and im terrible at reading it in the first place.

Also i am going to get new sprockets anyways im sick of running the 17/44 combo especially for city driving. So im going to do the 520 combo most likely and see how that works out.

Thanks everyone for the advise im considering this case closed

-Pat McG
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