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post #1 of 32 Old 04-24-2010, 08:11 AM Thread Starter
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Need help guys

Heres the problem...Got my bike running after the engine rebuild, it ran ok then started to run a little rough.
It then started to run on cyls 2&3 only...i tried putting spare plugs in cyls 1&4 with no joy. So i thought try a new coil...i got a set of differant coils and changed these, i also put 4 new plugs in..it ran ok at first then started to run a little rough but was firing on all 4......In total ive done about 25 miles since rebuild.
I started the bike this morning, it was still running rough, so i lifted the tank to check for any trapped wires, pipes etc and now it wont start but will only backfire now and again......i'am getting a spark, there is fuel as the plugs are getting wet and when i check the battery voltage its about 12.8v and drops to 10.6v when i hit the starter.....any ideas?

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post #2 of 32 Old 04-24-2010, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodyeee View Post
Heres the problem...Got my bike running after the engine rebuild, it ran ok then started to run a little rough.
It then started to run on cyls 2&3 only...i tried putting spare plugs in cyls 1&4 with no joy. So i thought try a new coil...i got a set of differant coils and changed these, i also put 4 new plugs in..it ran ok at first then started to run a little rough but was firing on all 4......In total ive done about 25 miles since rebuild.
I started the bike this morning, it was still running rough, so i lifted the tank to check for any trapped wires, pipes etc and now it wont start but will only backfire now and again......i'am getting a spark, there is fuel as the plugs are getting wet and when i check the battery voltage its about 12.8v and drops to 10.6v when i hit the starter.....any ideas?
It sounds as though one possibility is that for whatever reason, the charging system is not working. I'll bet whatever it is relates to all the work done. All the connections need to be checked. IF the charging system is for sure OK, how about the fuel metering side. Did you make more changes to the fuel system, be it a regulator or something else ? Also, didn't you have your crankshaft timing trigger moved a bit to alter the timing ? Maybe something there.

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post #3 of 32 Old 04-24-2010, 08:42 AM Thread Starter
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I didnt touch the regulator during my rebuild......yes i had the crank trigger pickup modded to -4 degrees....the thing is, it was starting ok but now wont start and will occasionaly backfire.

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post #4 of 32 Old 04-24-2010, 09:55 AM
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Are all the vacume hoses in the correct places and tight?

Would a bad fuel pressure regulator cause it to act like that?

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post #5 of 32 Old 04-24-2010, 11:22 AM
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The fuel/air ratio is electronically metered.... you are getting decent spark, but are you getting it at the right moment?

Are you sure that your cams were lined up right? i'd bet your timing is off....

Good luck, mate...

Well, fire the engines! Spur this iron space-pony on!

"The Shadow"
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post #6 of 32 Old 04-24-2010, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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Ive just tried another crank trigger pickup off a friends bike......its still the same, it just back fires now and again. The cam timing seems ok as i have checked the T mark when number one is at top dead centre. I will check all the vacuum hoses in the daylight as its now night here.

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post #7 of 32 Old 04-24-2010, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by woodyeee View Post
... I will check all the vacuum hoses in the daylight as its now night here.
I found that the vacuum diagram in the Honda manual I downloaded is wrong. The two hoses on the number 3 throttle body(IIRC) are shown backwards to where they are suppose to be. Had to check a friends 919(SiB's) to find the right routing. My bike didn't sound right and had a stutter between 1000rpm and 3000rpm's.

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post #8 of 32 Old 04-24-2010, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firedave View Post
I found that the vacuum diagram in the Honda manual I downloaded is wrong. The two hoses on the number 3 throttle body(IIRC) are shown backwards to where they are suppose to be. Had to check a friends 919(SiB's) to find the right routing. My bike didn't sound right and had a stutter between 1000rpm and 3000rpm's.
Ive not taken any of the vacuum hoses off........all i was going to check was if they were still on and not split.

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post #9 of 32 Old 04-24-2010, 02:37 PM
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A large voltage drop under starter load could show your battery needs replacing or the starter is shorting out. You could try to jump start it with a car battery. Good luck!

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post #10 of 32 Old 04-24-2010, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dream View Post
A large voltage drop under starter load could show your battery needs replacing or the starter is shorting out. You could try to jump start it with a car battery. Good luck!
I have just been out to the garage to check something out.....I think i may have found why its not running.......when i was checking things this morning it looks like i have put the plug caps back on the wrong cyls
Its too late for me to fire it up but i will try it in the morning...i feel such a dumb ass
I will keep you all posted......thanks for your input guys

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post #11 of 32 Old 04-24-2010, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodyeee View Post
I have just been out to the garage to check something out.....I think i may have found why its not running.......when i was checking things this morning it looks like i have put the plug caps back on the wrong cyls
Its too late for me to fire it up but i will try it in the morning...i feel such a dumb ass
I will keep you all posted......thanks for your input guys
That makes sense! Glad you found it. You did all the very hard work right then the easy stuff becomes difficult.

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post #12 of 32 Old 04-24-2010, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodyeee View Post
I think i may have found why its not running.......when i was checking things this morning it looks like i have put the plug caps back on the wrong cyls
No need to feel too embarrassed Woodyee, something like that is all too easy to overlook! Hope that solves the problem!





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Well, fire the engines! Spur this iron space-pony on!

"The Shadow"
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post #13 of 32 Old 04-24-2010, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shadow View Post
No need to feel too embarrassed Woodyee, something like that is all too easy to overlook! Hope that solves the problem!





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+1 on that. Experience is directly proportional to the amount of equipment ruined. Hope that does the trick for you.

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post #14 of 32 Old 04-24-2010, 06:40 PM
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Thats funny cant tell you how many times i've racked my brain trying to figure out something and it was right under my nose.

My atc 250r was making a weird clunkin noise, after trying to diagnose it in the woods for a while I decided to call it a day, nursed it back to the garage to find a screw had fallen out of the exhaust sheild. Missed a day of ridin and stressed out over a screw that I dont need to whoop the ATC, definitly could've enjoyed my day had i just seen it.

You're not alone, hope you fixed her up!

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post #15 of 32 Old 04-24-2010, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodyeee View Post
I have just been out to the garage to check something out.....I think i may have found why its not running.......when i was checking things this morning it looks like i have put the plug caps back on the wrong cyls
Its too late for me to fire it up but i will try it in the morning...i feel such a dumb ass
I will keep you all posted......thanks for your input guys
It may be premature to celebrate.
One coil does 2 & 3.
The other does 1 & 4.
It does not matter of 2 & 3 or 1 & 4 are switched, and normally you can't get a 2 lead to go to 1 or a 3 lead to go to 4.
You may still be dealing with something else.

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post #16 of 32 Old 04-24-2010, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
It may be premature to celebrate.
One coil does 2 & 3.
The other does 1 & 4.
It does not matter of 2 & 3 or 1 & 4 are switched, and normally you can't get a 2 lead to go to 1 or a 3 lead to go to 4.
You may still be dealing with something else.
Oh no, this smart guy appears to have shot a huge hole in our celebration derigible...back to plan B.

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post #17 of 32 Old 04-24-2010, 10:40 PM
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I did similar this week. Trying to fire up a freshly rebuilt engine in a 70 bug that I'm putting together with my son for him to drive. Cranked and cranked and cranked Sunday night trying to get it to fire, and all we got was a few backfires and a nearly drained battery. Could not figure out the problem. Paid a VW guy to make a house call to help me out Monday, and I had the 1 & 2 spark plug wires reversed. Doh! Also had a carb issue that I never would've figured out, so it wasn't money completely wasted. But, man, I felt like a dumbass.

Hope mcromo is wrong, for your sake.

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post #18 of 32 Old 04-24-2010, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
It may be premature to celebrate.
One coil does 2 & 3.
The other does 1 & 4.
It does not matter of 2 & 3 or 1 & 4 are switched, and normally you can't get a 2 lead to go to 1 or a 3 lead to go to 4.
You may still be dealing with something else.
but it is very possible if its the coil end that he swapped....



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post #19 of 32 Old 04-25-2010, 01:15 AM
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Let's get the obvious out of the way first. Stop at whatever you haven't checked and check it.
1 -- The battery and charging system are fine. 10.6 cranking volts is within spec, and it wouldn't go 25 miles on the battery alone.
2 -- I'm making the assumption that the compression is sufficient, that is if you remembered to install the rings. Don't laugh or get offended: I've seen it. Okay, it has compression. Check it anyway.
3 -- The cams are timed properly and the valve clearances are close to right.
4 -- There were no modifications / mistakes made to the fuel system that could act as a restriction, allowing sufficient fuel to start but not run properly. Too lean can cause the starting symptoms you describe. Check the fuel pressure. Check the fuel pump connections.
5 -- The modified crank sensor rotor was properly modified and is installed in the proper rotation and torqued to spec. Shoot the timing while cranking.
6 -- Nobody poured a bottle of NOS energy drink (or any other soft drink) in your tank. No water in the tank. Fuel in the tank. That actually burns.
7 -- A rat didn't build a nest in the intake plenum. Or use some essential wire as nesting material.
8 -- The pitch framinizer isn't precessed into the yaw range. This is fairly common if the magamp went into hard saturation during heavy neutrino bombardment from solar flare activity.
9 -- Paris Hilton isn't within 247.32 clicks of your garage. Don't ask.

If none of these is the cause I'd suggest engaging the services of a druid shaman to exorcise Gremlins, keeping in mind that sacramental Mead is as bad for the fuel system as Mountain Dew.

Rob

If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
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post #20 of 32 Old 04-25-2010, 03:35 AM Thread Starter
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Rob....nothing anyone says will offend me as its driving me nuts!!!

Ok i tried the plug leads the other way round and no joy...it seems i was correct the way i put the leads on in the beginning....what made me think i had put them on wrong was when i was checking the 919 manual it says cyls 1&4 but shows a picture of cyls 2&3 and vice versa for the other picture

When i changed my plugs last year i numbered them, so i just remembered to check this morning and now i'm real confused!!
So heres a couple of pictures for you lot to check i have them the correct way...If anyone has there tank off please can you check for me.




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post #21 of 32 Old 04-25-2010, 05:50 AM
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Rob, you forgot to have him check his flux capacitor! HAHA!

If when you swap coils, the same two cylinders are not firing, check for a break in one of the wires feeding the offending coil location. I never had a 'starts rough' condition, but I had an issue pop up where it would start running rough on all 4, then drop to 2, then pick back up on all 4. Eventually it only ran on 2 cylinders. It would start and run, but you could tell it was wrong. The wire was broken inside the jacket only and I found it while removing the coils. I accidentally pulled too hard on the wire and the insulation stretched really far. New terminals solved the problem.

Press Any Key To Continue.
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post #22 of 32 Old 04-25-2010, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
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Its now starts and runs!! I made sure the battery was fully charged, 14+volts...I tred to start it, with no luck. I took one of the new plugs out and replaced it with an old one........i made sure the plug leads were in their original positions, and it fired up!! but not on all 4! i went and purchased 4 new plugs and tried it again and it runs much better.... its still a little rough, but i think that may be to do with the tank trapping one of my hoses!
I dont believe that the new plugs that i had only lasted one day!!!!!

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post #23 of 32 Old 04-25-2010, 09:25 AM
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Did you retain the turbo kit?
What're you going to differently this time?

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post #24 of 32 Old 04-25-2010, 09:54 AM
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Did you retain the turbo kit?
What're you going to differently this time?
Sure was an expensive experiment. Hopefully he sells it to you!

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post #25 of 32 Old 04-25-2010, 10:10 AM
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nah
I just read the "engines gone bang" thread and saw he bought other pistons so he must be keeping it. I sold my 919 last year and have more turbos than I know what to do with. Was just wondering what his plans are for tuning, etc.

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post #26 of 32 Old 04-25-2010, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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The turbo is on and running......I'm just taking it easy as i have to run the engine in....I'm only letting it rev to 5000 rpm for now....ive perhaps got about 30 miles on the new engine, i will need to take it to the dyno to see what its fueling like as i have had the ignition pickup coil retarded -4 degrees.

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post #27 of 32 Old 04-25-2010, 12:01 PM
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Good luck Woodyee. I have over 1000 miles on those pistons, 700 of them being with boost, they seem to be working wonderfully.

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post #28 of 32 Old 04-25-2010, 12:02 PM
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Did you test the wastegate? What was it set at? How you going to tune it - Power Commander? w/boost input module?

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post #29 of 32 Old 04-25-2010, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
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I originally tested the wastegate and i could only get it to just start opening at 9psi when i say just it was like 1mm.....I now have a boost gauge!! I have the power commander set as before with a begi fuel pressure regulator and walbro fuel pump.It also has the standard map sensor, were there is a t in the vacuum hose with a one way check valve so the map sensor does not see boost.
I almost forgot.......now the boost gauge is on the bike i will do a test to see what it is opening at!

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post #30 of 32 Old 04-25-2010, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Good luck Woodyee. I have over 1000 miles on those pistons, 700 of them being with boost, they seem to be working wonderfully.
What revs where you running your engine in at?

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post #31 of 32 Old 04-25-2010, 03:30 PM
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you can use a hand pump to test the actuator and set it where you want, assuming it has the threaded rod. It's a minor pain but eliminates some guesswork and potential engine damage (again).

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post #32 of 32 Old 04-25-2010, 08:52 PM
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It lives!

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