NEED 919 TIRE ADVICE - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 42 Old 04-08-2010, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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NEED 919 TIRE ADVICE

I'm changing to new tires on my 919........Was thinking the Pilot Power CT2'S

DOES ANY OF YOU KNOW IF THE 190 55 17 WILL FIT........JUST ASKING...OR SHOULD I STAY WITH THE 180's.............I live in an area with lots of curvy roads..........looking for a bit extra grip...........I would appreciate any input from you guys who know more than I about this. I will trade grip for tire life.

thanks........

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post #2 of 42 Old 04-08-2010, 12:31 PM
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Don't know.....but no.

Stick with the 180...you're doing it wrong if you think you need a 190

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post #3 of 42 Old 04-08-2010, 12:32 PM
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Extra grip does not come from putting the wrong size tire on your bike.
The 180 is designed for a 5.5" rim.
The 190 is designed for a 6" rim.

The profile of the tire will be like a mushroom...
You will hurt the handling.

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post #4 of 42 Old 04-08-2010, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peoples1234 View Post
Don't know.....but no.

Stick with the 180...you're doing it wrong if you think you need a 190
Haha! I agree whole heartedly.

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post #5 of 42 Old 04-08-2010, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMOKE919 View Post
I'm changing to new tires on my 919........Was thinking the Pilot Power CT2'S

DOES ANY OF YOU KNOW IF THE 190 55 17 WILL FIT........JUST ASKING...OR SHOULD I STAY WITH THE 180's.............I live in an area with lots of curvy roads..........looking for a bit extra grip...........I would appreciate any input from you guys who know more than I about this. I will trade grip for tire life.

thanks........
I run 2CTs and do track days.
I'd stay away from the 190.
I think it's ideal rim width is wider than the 919, which has the ideal rim width for the 180.
Even if the rim is a match, the 190 is a HP tire.
You just don't need it on a 919 be it straight up or banked over.
The 190 is likely taller also, which effects your overall geometry.
And remember that the wider the rear tire in relation to a constant front, the greater the distance from the side grip contact patch to the centre of the wheel, which means the greater the differential displacement distance is between the front and back contact patches. This is a handling negative, not a positive. So, why anything but a 180 is the way I'd be looking at it for a 919.

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post #6 of 42 Old 04-08-2010, 12:40 PM
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go with the pilot roads 2. awesome grip AND tire life : ) pilot roads 2... i'm in love with.

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post #7 of 42 Old 04-08-2010, 01:03 PM
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Pretty much any name-brand sport or sport-touring tires are all good. Put on the recommended size and go.

Personally, I like the Pilot Power and Pilot Road 2 tires. I've had my Pilot Road 2s on for nearly 10,000 miles and the same setup will be my next set.

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post #8 of 42 Old 04-08-2010, 01:14 PM
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Stay with the 180's for the 919. There is no upside to putting on a 190.

I ride with a Pilot Power 2CT in front and a Pilot Road 2 in back. This combo works for me... both commuting and track days. ~7,000 miles on both and still going strong.

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post #9 of 42 Old 04-08-2010, 03:13 PM
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190/50 SUCKS
180/55 Good
190/55 Even Better!

& yes the contact patch at full lean is larger with a 190/55 tire even if only marginally. The tire is also going to provide a taller, rounder profile that aids in steering.

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post #10 of 42 Old 04-08-2010, 03:45 PM
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w/e size you go with.... go with Pilot Road 2's ... WORLDS better than my old shinkos.

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post #11 of 42 Old 04-08-2010, 06:28 PM
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got the pilot road 2ct's with 18k miles on em. running 180/120 and completely love them. will get another set at 20k. the back still looks real good but the front is getting slim in the center.

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post #12 of 42 Old 04-08-2010, 07:15 PM
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i ran a 190/50 for 6,000 miles. the bike wants to stay straight up, which is great for superslab, but not so good for twisties

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post #13 of 42 Old 04-08-2010, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlb63 View Post
got the pilot road 2ct's with 18k miles on em.

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post #14 of 42 Old 04-08-2010, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlb63 View Post
got the pilot road 2ct's with 18k miles on em. running 180/120 and completely love them. will get another set at 20k. the back still looks real good but the front is getting slim in the center.
How the....? I knew the 2ct compound was supposed to last longer but holy crap

I'm here for a good time, not a long time
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post #15 of 42 Old 04-08-2010, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlb63 View Post
got the pilot road 2ct's with 18k miles on em. running 180/120 and completely love them. will get another set at 20k. the back still looks real good but the front is getting slim in the center.
Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousmike View Post
+1

Am I the only one that runs Dunlops? I couldn't be happier, but honestly I haven't run Michelins, maybe one of these days I'll get to test ride a bike with them on.





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post #16 of 42 Old 04-09-2010, 01:12 AM
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If you love them curvy roads - and are keen to keep the 919 agile, stay miles away from the 190 tire, it will only "slow" down the bike, making it a lot slower when you change directions etc. - and you will loose grip because the tire will "curve" a lot more, due to the rim size on the 919
Don't do'it !!!
Tires - go for something like a sport touring tire, supersport tires take a whole lot of effort to make work, cause the need for a lot of heat in them, 9 of 10 will have the best tire in a sport touring tire like the Bridgestone BT021 or wait for the new BT023 when it hit the states.. !
I don't know the names of the sport touring tires when it comes to Michelin ?

Hans - DK

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post #17 of 42 Old 04-09-2010, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
190/50 SUCKS
180/55 Good
190/55 Even Better!

& yes the contact patch at full lean is larger with a 190/55 tire even if only marginally. The tire is also going to provide a taller, rounder profile that aids in steering.
are you sayin that running a 190/55 on the 919 is good?

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post #18 of 42 Old 04-09-2010, 09:33 AM
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Anyone know the weight difference between the 180/55's and the 190/55's?

Lighter weight = good

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post #19 of 42 Old 04-09-2010, 09:42 AM
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I'm not going to contribute to the 180vs190 issue, but I will say that the rear PR2 on my 919 lasted just over 6000 miles and didn't seem to have much left. I went through the trouble of removing the front and retaining it when I sold my 919 but the reaer was too far gone to bother with. /my $.02

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post #20 of 42 Old 04-11-2010, 05:39 PM
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Anyone know the weight difference between the 180/55's and the 190/55's?

Lighter weight = good
for this application that statement is udderly rediculous Monday morning quarterback Internet jabber.

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post #21 of 42 Old 04-11-2010, 06:51 PM
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I had a good look at the Michelin website, including the full catalogue.
Michelin lists 180s on both 5.5 and 6 inch wide rears.
They also list 190s on 5.5 and 6 inch rears.
I could not find a table showing "ideal rim width" which is what I was looking for.
My guess is that the 5.5 is at or close to being ideal for the 180.
A move to a 190 is a nominal increase of width of 0.40 inches, so it makes sense to me that a 190 will work on a 5.5 rear rim and not absolutely require a 6. Also, I'd think that the taller tire, the 55 that is, would be less sensitive to the rim width that the 50 would. But the 55 will be a taller tire and have more impact on rear ride height. No one is going to fall off by putting on a 190. LDH says the 190-55 handles better than the 50 and the 180-55 but did not say what rim width he was referring to. My guess is he'll be able to come back and say he's been able to try it on both 5.5 and 6 wide wheels and got the same results. I could not find tire height info though. My guess is that a 190-50 is about the same height as a 180-55 but if one wants handling they should go with the 190-55 which will be taller. Measure the 190 and lift the front to compensate so that the front chassis height stays in the same relation to the rear. Don't lower the rear, as you will give up swing arm angle, and if you are so picky about putting a 190 on the back to be able to lay down as much power as possible, you should be trying to keep as much swing arm angle as you can.

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post #22 of 42 Old 04-12-2010, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nine1nine View Post
for this application that statement is udderly rediculous Monday morning quarterback Internet jabber.
Thank you for your opinion. I'm sure it is illustrative to many here.
Sometimes a question is just a question; a request for information from people who know. Since I was not asking you, please feel free to ignore the question.

On another note - I think the words you are looking for are "utterly" and "ridiculous". The words you used convey a completely different message.

For everyone else:
Does anyone know the weight difference? Is there a weight difference?
Some people spend a lot of money wheels that are a pound or two lighter in search of better handling.

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post #23 of 42 Old 04-12-2010, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasTraffic View Post
Thank you for your opinion. I'm sure it is illustrative to many here.
Sometimes a question is just a question; a request for information from people who know. Since I was not asking you, please feel free to ignore the question.

On another note - I think the words you are looking for are "utterly" and "ridiculous". The words you used convey a completely different message.

For everyone else:
Does anyone know the weight difference? Is there a weight difference?
Some people spend a lot of money wheels that are a pound or two lighter in search of better handling.
I did not see weights posted, just like I did not see dimensions posted.
My guess is that the 190-50 is near the 180-55 and the 190-55 will be a bit heavier but not by too much. Inside the range of those three tires, my sense of things is that the weight difference, whatever it is, is best ignored as for these three tires it should not be dominant criteria for selecting and is surely of no real consequence.

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post #24 of 42 Old 04-15-2010, 11:10 AM
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I'll throw my vote for the Pilot Road 2 as well, the dunlop roadsmarts are good, but the front doesn't last as long as the rear... odd huh? so for bang for the buck Pilot road to is an awesome do all tire.

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post #25 of 42 Old 04-15-2010, 04:19 PM
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Roughly, here are the measurements. Using deductive reasoning, as follows, I have found the 190/55 to be tallest on a 17 inch rim, followed by the 180/55, and naturally taking last place is the 190/50, approx .3 inches from the 180/55, and .75 inches from the 190/55. over the 180, the 190/55 would only raise the back of your bike about .215 inches.

180/55 17
17in=431.8mm
180mm wide x 55% = 99mm sidewall
99mm x 2 = 198mm
198+432 = 630mm = 24.80 inches tall

190/55 17
17in=431.8mm
190mm wide x 55% = 104.5mm sidewall
104.5mm x 2 = 209mm
209 + 432 = 641mm = 25.23 inches tall

190/50 17
17in=431.8mm
190mm wide x 50% = 95mm sidewall
95mm x 2 = 190mm
190+432 = 622mm = 24.49 inches tall

NOTE: I'm not saying any of these are better or worse mind you, and I'm also not saying anything about the "mushroom effect" on the driving surface of the tire - since I have no idea - I'm just bored and had the calculator out. Ride safe.

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post #26 of 42 Old 04-27-2010, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamjayp View Post
the 190/55 would only raise the back of your bike about .215 inches.
Appreciate the work Adam.

If anyone can relate to fractions better, that's almost 7/32".

The ratio of width to height is the same as the 180/55 right? Because the 55 means 55% which is actually the ratio in itself...?

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post #27 of 42 Old 04-27-2010, 11:47 AM
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when i had my 919 i put a 190/55 on the rear.....

don't do it.... unless you spend 99% of your time on the superslab....... the handling will feel sluggish and when you lean it over it will feel loose in the back.... because leaned over you will have a much smaller contact patch than the 180 does...*(i know that don't sound right but it is)



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post #28 of 42 Old 04-27-2010, 11:57 AM
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Be careful how you use this.

1
The theoretical explorations are a good indicator, but once you have a different tire you should measure the circumference then calculate the radius so you know what it is for sure.

2
0.215 mm of ride height increase is NOT minor.
This will take out over 1 mm of Trail from the front end as well as steeping up the steering head angle.
This is not said to spook anyone off from doing the big tire, but to bring to the fore some of the effects.
Anyone putting on such a tire who has raised their tubes in the triple clamps, should be at least considering moving them to compensate.
If one has an 04 or later bike, consider dialling in some more front ride height with the so called preload adjusters - that aren't and instead are front ride height adjusters.
If you want the quicken the front end and are prepared to sacrifice some "feel" to get it, then don't do a thing. If you want the front end to behave as it did before the taller rear tire, then you need to do some adjustments at the front.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett View Post
Appreciate the work Adam.

If anyone can relate to fractions better, that's almost 7/32".

The ratio of width to height is the same as the 180/55 right? Because the 55 means 55% which is actually the ratio in itself...?

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post #29 of 42 Old 04-27-2010, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
Be careful how you use this.

1
The theoretical explorations are a good indicator, but once you have a different tire you should measure the circumference then calculate the radius so you know what it is for sure.
YES. Forgot to mention that. The radius of the tire carcass will be steeper on the 190 than the 180, regardless if it's a 55 or a 50 because it's "squished" onto the rim more, making it effectively raise the axle up ever so slightly more. Also, that same raising of the axle, from both the larger tire and the "squished" radius will move the contact patch forward making the wheelbase shorter (think of a right triangle from front tire contact to back tire contact to rear axle back to front tire, increasing the hight of the axle shortens the wheelbase), think a^2+b^2=c^2

Granted, it's not going to be much, and like I said, I don't know if it's better or worse, but as both Paco and mcromo indicate, it's not a desired effect for most folks. I'm sticking with the 180 myself, and just plan on going with a better tire overall. I like the road2 reviews on wet weather and longevity seems to also be well above standard.

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post #30 of 42 Old 04-27-2010, 03:30 PM
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scaled depiction of a 6" rim




The same basic size increase applies to a 5.5" rim width except ALL the tires are now even taller.

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post #31 of 42 Old 04-27-2010, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
scaled depiction of a 6" rim




The same basic size increase applies to a 5.5" rim width except ALL the tires are now even taller.
when i did this on my 919 the tire was wider *(190-50) but flatter in the middle...as you show in your diagram..... it did not lean itself to leaning.....

190 on a 5.5 rim is a bad idea....



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post #32 of 42 Old 04-27-2010, 04:17 PM
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First off, go back & read my post #9

Second I get so tired of going over this stuff again & again & again arguing with people that form the majority of their own opinions from some magazine article that was written by a writer that just happens to know how to ride a motorcycle and completely disregarding the advice of people that have been actually doing this kind of work for decades... At this point I just wish threads like this would die. It's like the guys that still think the maximum tire pressures (42R 36F) listed in the owners manual are still the best pressures to run in the bike.

And last, go back & read my post #9

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post #33 of 42 Old 04-27-2010, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
First off, go back & read my post #9

Second I get so tired of going over this stuff again & again & again arguing with people that form the majority of their own opinions from some magazine article that was written by a writer that just happens to know how to ride a motorcycle and completely disregarding the advice of people that have been actually doing this kind of work for decades... At this point I just wish threads like this would die. It's like the guys that still think the maximum tire pressures (42R 36F) listed in the owners manual are still the best pressures to run in the bike.

And last, go back & read my post #9
What do you think about running pressures of 44R and 38F?

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post #34 of 42 Old 04-27-2010, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmurphy84 View Post
What do you think about running pressures of 44R and 38F?
32f 34r here on the psi .

190/55 looks pretty nice... VERY similar profile compared to 180/55 just a little bigger thus bigger contact patch... 190/50 looks DUMB! may as well put a car tire back there.

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post #35 of 42 Old 04-27-2010, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
First off, go back & read my post #9

Second I get so tired of going over this stuff again & again & again arguing with people that form the majority of their own opinions from some magazine article that was written by a writer that just happens to know how to ride a motorcycle and completely disregarding the advice of people that have been actually doing this kind of work for decades... At this point I just wish threads like this would die. It's like the guys that still think the maximum tire pressures (42R 36F) listed in the owners manual are still the best pressures to run in the bike.

And last, go back & read my post #9
no offense, but, you do realize that with out people asking questions, regardless of what YOU think of them, this forum would be dead? shit, it has slowed down so much since i signed up last year. if you go on everyone post and tell people you wish threads would die, they eventually will and the forum will be no more. oh, and im sure you didnt get all the knowledge you have by not asking questions

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post #36 of 42 Old 04-27-2010, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
First off, go back & read my post #9

Second I get so tired of going over this stuff again & again & again arguing with people that form the majority of their own opinions from some magazine article that was written by a writer that just happens to know how to ride a motorcycle and completely disregarding the advice of people that have been actually doing this kind of work for decades... At this point I just wish threads like this would die. It's like the guys that still think the maximum tire pressures (42R 36F) listed in the owners manual are still the best pressures to run in the bike.

And last, go back & read my post #9
sorry... missed post #9.... for once we were in rare agreement....



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post #37 of 42 Old 04-27-2010, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by hornet919 View Post
no offense, but, you do realize that with out people asking questions, regardless of what YOU think of them, this forum would be dead? shit, it has slowed down so much since i signed up last year. if you go on everyone post and tell people you wish threads would die, they eventually will and the forum will be no more. oh, and im sure you didnt get all the knowledge you have by not asking questions
No offense taken, what I am referring to is people constantly arguing about things that are already proven to be absolute by anyone with just a modicum of experience. Most of this stuff is Motorcycling 101 the very basic understanding of what riding these bikes entails and yet so many people just spout off some bullshit without ever actually knowing the truth. You get more answers that are contradictory or just plain arbitrary to the topic that the real answers get lost in the thread.

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post #38 of 42 Old 04-28-2010, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
No offense taken, what I am referring to is people constantly arguing about things that are already proven to be absolute by anyone with just a modicum of experience. Most of this stuff is Motorcycling 101 the very basic understanding of what riding these bikes entails and yet so many people just spout off some bullshit without ever actually knowing the truth. You get more answers that are contradictory or just plain arbitrary to the topic that the real answers get lost in the thread.
glad no offense taken cause i really wasnt tryin to be rude. i just see so many people on the internet constantly bashing people for asking questions that people think they should know the answer to. its a place to learn. i agree some people just ask some dumb questions, but some people just genuinely want knowledge. carry on

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post #39 of 42 Old 04-28-2010, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
32f 34r here on the psi .
I was joking on the PSI. Seriously, I ran 34F 38R on my Pilot Road 2s and didn't have any problem. I couldn't pass up the $158 deal on Pilot Powers so I mounted a set last weekend. With all the crappy weather that rolled through, I haven't even been out on them yet. Right now, the pressures are set the same as my PR2s were.

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post #40 of 42 Old 04-28-2010, 07:20 AM
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I just mounted set of Pilot Road 2s a month ago. So far I'm very happy with them. I've been running 34F 38R and they seem to feel good.

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