More compliance/plushness? - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 18 Old 11-22-2009, 03:19 AM Thread Starter
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More compliance/plushness?

I'm running a pair of older BT 014's on my 919.

Anyone with real world experience on getting a bit more from the 919' front end and these tires? I'm willing to trade a bit of mileage for a bit more plushness and road holding on less-than-ideal road surfaces that we have here in Asia. How low air pressure can I get away with on the front end with these on an '03 with stock suspension? I'm about 180 with gear, if that matters...

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post #2 of 18 Old 11-22-2009, 07:27 AM
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I'm 200 fully dressed in gear and also ride an '03 with stock suspension. I've run the Michelin Pilot Powers and the Pilot Road 2s. No problems with either. I currently have 6,500 miles on my PR2 front and 5,000 miles on my PR2 rear. hey are about halfway worn.

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post #3 of 18 Old 11-22-2009, 08:51 AM
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I don't know much about the 014s but I'd bet they are fine with 30 psi cold. 32psi cold for sure it okay. It will help smooth out the small cracks in the road but if you realy want true plushness then you will have to get different suspension all together.

F4i forks with aftermarket valving and a new shock will smooth out the ride ALOT. But much more money.

Something I don't think anyone has tried here would be to use the stock 919 damper rod forks and put emulators on them. Eumulators are comonly used on SV650 forks. I hear they work great and cost is reasonable. Much cheaper than buying used forks and then modifying those.
Scanning through this seems to be a good write up to describe what I'm refering too.
emulators

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07 600RR
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post #4 of 18 Old 11-22-2009, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honda ng gingsa View Post
I'm running a pair of older BT 014's on my 919.

Anyone with real world experience on getting a bit more from the 919' front end and these tires? I'm willing to trade a bit of mileage for a bit more plushness and road holding on less-than-ideal road surfaces that we have here in Asia. How low air pressure can I get away with on the front end with these on an '03 with stock suspension? I'm about 180 with gear, if that matters...
My 2007 ZX-14 came stock with BT014s. Absolute sh!t tire! I did get 5330 miles on the front, but it was squared off weird and cupping more on the left side than the right. I have never squared off a front tire before.. even when I was sporting huge chicken strips out back, the fronts have always worn round. Granted, my 14 is stretched so it does put more weight on the front. To back it up, I have 2 friends which also have zx-14s and BT014 tires. Both are stock wheelbase and both bikes front tires are squared as mine was. One lasted 5000 miles or so the other has under 1800 miles on it and it looks like sh!t already. The front end of the bike flops from side to side as it rolls from the flat spot to the left or right at slow speeds. It's absolutely horrible. I put a Continental Road Attack on the 14 this spring and then took it to the Grand Canyon via a 9 day trip around 4 westerns states and 2200 miles later it was still round. The trip was almost all super slab miles. Tire now has over 4300 miles and it's still round. It is starting to cup and I really don't expect to get more miles than the BT014, but I do expect this one will continue to wear out with a rounded profile and not square of at ridiculously low mileage. Big fan of the Continental Road Attack as a sport tour tire. The 919 is a much lighter bike than a zx-14, you may not get the same wear scenario as I got? If you want a good sport touring tire for slightly higher mileages, the Avon ST and Conti Road Attack are very decent choice. If your partial to the BTs, the 021 wears much better out back than the 014. I can vouch for that as well. the 014 is just crap! Can't comment on the front BT021 either as I didn't pay attention to the front on one of my buddies ZX-14's during our trip. His rear was wearing very slowly though. Think I might try one of those out back next.. for street that is. I run a Shinko Ultra Soft for the strip. Those last like 80 runs.

BTW, I rarely chime in on the tire threads cuz my bikes wear out tires so fast I figure I'll get a chance to try 'em all sooner or later. Everyone has an opinion and I hate to pick sides until I tried them all, ya know? ... but when it comes to the BT014 I have a strong negative opinion. I just had to say something. I hope your experience is different, I really do.

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post #5 of 18 Old 11-22-2009, 10:40 PM
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About a roll and a half of Charmin stuffed in the back of your shorts will add some plushness, plus bathroom breaks take less time.

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post #6 of 18 Old 11-23-2009, 03:02 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoCycho View Post
My 2007 ZX-14 came stock with BT014s. Absolute sh!t tire! I did get 5330 miles on the front, but it was squared off weird and cupping more on the left side than the right. I have never squared off a front tire before.. even when I was sporting huge chicken strips out back, the fronts have always worn round. Granted, my 14 is stretched so it does put more weight on the front. To back it up, I have 2 friends which also have zx-14s and BT014 tires. Both are stock wheelbase and both bikes front tires are squared as mine was. One lasted 5000 miles or so the other has under 1800 miles on it and it looks like sh!t already. The front end of the bike flops from side to side as it rolls from the flat spot to the left or right at slow speeds. It's absolutely horrible. I put a Continental Road Attack on the 14 this spring and then took it to the Grand Canyon via a 9 day trip around 4 westerns states and 2200 miles later it was still round. The trip was almost all super slab miles. Tire now has over 4300 miles and it's still round. It is starting to cup and I really don't expect to get more miles than the BT014, but I do expect this one will continue to wear out with a rounded profile and not square of at ridiculously low mileage. Big fan of the Continental Road Attack as a sport tour tire. The 919 is a much lighter bike than a zx-14, you may not get the same wear scenario as I got? If you want a good sport touring tire for slightly higher mileages, the Avon ST and Conti Road Attack are very decent choice. If your partial to the BTs, the 021 wears much better out back than the 014. I can vouch for that as well. the 014 is just crap! Can't comment on the front BT021 either as I didn't pay attention to the front on one of my buddies ZX-14's during our trip. His rear was wearing very slowly though. Think I might try one of those out back next.. for street that is. I run a Shinko Ultra Soft for the strip. Those last like 80 runs.

BTW, I rarely chime in on the tire threads cuz my bikes wear out tires so fast I figure I'll get a chance to try 'em all sooner or later. Everyone has an opinion and I hate to pick sides until I tried them all, ya know? ... but when it comes to the BT014 I have a strong negative opinion. I just had to say something. I hope your experience is different, I really do.
I'm just back to riding after a 6 year break, so I'm a bit outta touch with what are the choice sport touring tires now. What I was really wondering about was tire pressure, and how much it affects tire "flex" and ultimately how that can aid a less than super suspension set-up. I ran 32 on one ride then 30 the next. Dunno if I am imagining that i'm feeling a difference in the way the bike feels over small ripples and bumps... Dare I try lower on the next ride? Is 26 psi the point of diminished returns?

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post #7 of 18 Old 11-23-2009, 03:04 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by justintyme73 View Post
About a roll and a half of Charmin stuffed in the back of your shorts will add some plushness, plus bathroom breaks take less time.
Not the kind of skid marks i'm interested in...

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post #8 of 18 Old 11-23-2009, 06:51 AM
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With the non adjustable front of the 03, I would think you could try different weights and amount of fork fluid. That might help a bit. A Michelin Pilot Power at 32psi is a good riding tire. I've ridden a couple of 02s and 03. Might just be me, but I didn't think they rode as nice as my 04 that I adjusted around on. I ended up putting an Ohlins on the rear. My 919 rode pretty nice.

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post #9 of 18 Old 11-23-2009, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by touring919 View Post
Something I don't think anyone has tried here would be to use the stock 919 damper rod forks and put emulators on them. Eumulators are comonly used on SV650 forks. I hear they work great and cost is reasonable. Much cheaper than buying used forks and then modifying those.
Scanning through this seems to be a good write up to describe what I'm refering too.
emulators
This would be the best way to use the RICOR inertia valving system, also. Damper rods are "old school" in many ways, but, with the correct adjustments to them, they CAN perform better than cartridges.

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post #10 of 18 Old 11-23-2009, 09:11 AM
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I wouldn't go below 32 psi for street riding, because you are going to speed up the rate of wear significantly. And, 26 PSI is extremely low for street riding. Trying to fix your ride quality by lowering your tire PSI probably isn't the best approach. Money spent on suspension is money well spent.

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post #11 of 18 Old 11-23-2009, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honda ng gingsa View Post
I'm just back to riding after a 6 year break, so I'm a bit outta touch with what are the choice sport touring tires now. What I was really wondering about was tire pressure, and how much it affects tire "flex" and ultimately how that can aid a less than super suspension set-up. I ran 32 on one ride then 30 the next. Dunno if I am imagining that i'm feeling a difference in the way the bike feels over small ripples and bumps... Dare I try lower on the next ride? Is 26 psi the point of diminished returns?
Well, I gathered that's what you were asking and like I said before, I don't normally chime in on tire threads.. but, I was pretty disappointed in the BT014 and wanted to give ya a heads up. At some point, low tire pressure will be slowing you down or rob power/efficiency. Still, run lower pressures to get a softer ride. A good indicator is tire temp. Set a pressure and ride it for a set distance/period, then check the temp. Warm is good for traction, hot is bad for wear. IMO the sooner you wear out the BT014 and get another tire the better. Awful tire.

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post #12 of 18 Old 11-23-2009, 09:54 AM
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Trying to fix your ride quality by lowering your tire PSI probably isn't the best approach.
I respectfully disagree. 2 PSI can make a huge difference on the way it feels to go over railroad tracks or expansion joints. All tires feel different and what tire pressure works for one tire, rider, bike may not work the same for another. Road and ambient temps often make a huge difference on the way a tires rides and grips from one ride to the next. Adjusting tire pressure is quick, easy and in pretty much free. Worth a shot anyway. I say adjust the tires first.. then move on from there.

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post #13 of 18 Old 11-23-2009, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by MotoCycho View Post
I respectfully disagree. 2 PSI can make a huge difference on the way it feels to go over railroad tracks or expansion joints. All tires feel different and what tire pressure works for one tire, rider, bike may not work the same for another. Road and ambient temps often make a huge difference on the way a tires rides and grips from one ride to the next. Adjusting tire pressure is quick, easy and in pretty much free. Worth a shot anyway. I say adjust the tires first.. then move on from there.
I think we are on different railroad tracks at the moment. Adjusting the pressure to get a feel you like better I can agree with. Thinking you can just keep lowering it to eventually fix a "problem", not such a good idea (in my book). And, I still think anything below 32 for street riding will likely trade a lot of wear for a little cushion.

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post #14 of 18 Old 11-23-2009, 10:03 AM
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I think we are on different railroad tracks at the moment. Adjusting the pressure to get a feel you like better I can agree with. Thinking you can just keep lowering it to eventually fix a "problem", not such a good idea (in my book). And, I still think anything below 32 for street riding will likely trade a lot of wear for a little cushion.
I do agree with that.

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post #15 of 18 Old 11-23-2009, 02:59 PM
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Oh yea. Tire wear goes up when pressure goes down. Lower pressure only helps to a point with any tire. But within safe pressure limits it a free way to soften the ride a bit. And grip typically goes up so if tire wear is not a concern go for it.

I think suspension is the only way to fix the problem. And damper rod forks suck! I don't think they can perform as well as cartridge. At least not across the board. In one specific area okay but the other areas will be so compromized the damper would be junk to most people. Only problem with the emulators is that they only "fix" the compression side.

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post #16 of 18 Old 11-23-2009, 03:42 PM
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Only problem with the emulators is that they only "fix" the compression side.
Yep, RICOR has a way to control both compression and rebound, using a damper rod. It's a nice step up from Emulators. I talked to the Engineer this am, he's going to start looking into a solution for the CB soon. I hope it's REAL soon, as my broken ribs are mending fairly quickly, and I'll be ready to ride in a few more weeks.

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post #17 of 18 Old 11-23-2009, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
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Obviously slightly lower pressures help but only to a point. And based from the discussion, 30 psi seems to be the lower limit to balancing wear, tire flex etc.

Thanks for the discussion guys, I'm learning a thing or two here.

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post #18 of 18 Old 11-23-2009, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackheart View Post
Yep, RICOR has a way to control both compression and rebound, using a damper rod. It's a nice step up from Emulators. I talked to the Engineer this am, he's going to start looking into a solution for the CB soon. I hope it's REAL soon, as my broken ribs are mending fairly quickly, and I'll be ready to ride in a few more weeks.
please keep us posted! i cannot afford to redo the entire suspension system, but wouldnt mind improving the stock set-up for a decent price. so i'd be very interested in this!

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