Loud front brakes - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 36 Old 08-05-2008, 12:13 PM Thread Starter
 
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Loud front brakes

Crap, these brakes on my 05 919 with under 6k sqeal and moan like no other when coming to a stop. It's so bad that I do everything possible to avoid even using the fronts, but that's not safe and does not stop the bike as well just using the rear. So far I've pulled the pads and they are in great shape still (slightly grooved) though I went ahead and ran them over emery cloth vigerously plus sprayed them down good with brake cleaner. I did the same thing to the discs as well to get them clean and try and remove the glaze. So far it's not done much to alleviate the noise. So, I'm wondering is this a common issue for the stock pads? Is there something else I can do before I run out and spend a fortune on replacement pads?

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post #2 of 36 Old 08-05-2008, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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Ugh, just ran a search and found the answer, there seems to be a issue with these Honda pads and rotors. Guess I will just have to live with it until I can afford Galfer stuff.......

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post #3 of 36 Old 08-06-2008, 08:56 PM
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Don't count on it different brake pads helping. I put a set of EBC's and Honda's on my 919 and both squealed. I've spent hours cleaning, adjusting, removing, replacing. Everytime the moan goes away but every time it comes back. Some people say the only cure is disc replacement and I'm beginning to agree. On that same note, will the rotors from any other model bike bolt to the 919 or am I stuck with aftermarket (expensive) rotors? I'd almost rather sell the bike than spend $500 just to get the brakes to stop squealing.

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post #4 of 36 Old 08-07-2008, 06:04 AM
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I think the last guy who had this problem fixed it by bleeding his brakes.

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post #5 of 36 Old 08-07-2008, 07:55 AM
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I had the worst squeal forever, but it went away when I changed to EBC organics. Unfortunately the EBC'S do not stop as well, so I put EBC on the outside of each caliper and Honda on the inside. No more noise and good breaking!

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post #6 of 36 Old 08-08-2008, 03:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Sneaky Steve View Post
I think the last guy who had this problem fixed it by bleeding his brakes.
I forgot to include bleeding... twice.

I never thought to mix brake pads though.. Sounds like I have a lunchtime project for today.

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post #7 of 36 Old 08-08-2008, 03:38 PM
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My brother and I both noticed that our Hornets brakes make a bit of noise. Only done 1000 +/_ kms. They work well though so at this point, it is only slightly annoying but not an issue...

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post #8 of 36 Old 08-09-2008, 06:55 PM
 
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i was begining to think i was the only one with crappy front brakes... good to see im not alone but my honda dealer bled my brakes and went over the front end and it was almost worse... the only thing i had any difference with was tightening the front wheel bearings just a scoche... still squeaks and moans but less... i also found my honda dealer selling the 07 cbr1000rr for the same dam price i bought my un-tunable 919 for just 4 months ago... This wr3ncher kicks himself in disgust.

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post #9 of 36 Old 08-09-2008, 07:21 PM
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It's the rotors. Get some Wave's and be done with it!


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post #10 of 36 Old 08-09-2008, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katoom View Post
Crap, these brakes on my 05 919 with under 6k sqeal and moan like no other when coming to a stop. It's so bad that I do everything possible to avoid even using the fronts, but that's not safe and does not stop the bike as well just using the rear. So far I've pulled the pads and they are in great shape still (slightly grooved) though I went ahead and ran them over emery cloth vigerously plus sprayed them down good with brake cleaner. I did the same thing to the discs as well to get them clean and try and remove the glaze. So far it's not done much to alleviate the noise. So, I'm wondering is this a common issue for the stock pads? Is there something else I can do before I run out and spend a fortune on replacement pads?
I have an 05 with 18k miles, stock brakes, and have never heard a sqeal, moan or peep from them... What are you doing to her..

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post #11 of 36 Old 08-10-2008, 12:24 AM
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Hmmmm,,,

I think I'll pour some oil on the discs. That'll stop the squeal... Hahahaha...!!!

Naaa, it's not that bad...

Actually, since my last ride, I have fitted braided lines on the front brakes. I doubt very much that this will make any difference to the noises but I can't get out to test it because of the crappy weather we've had for what feels like an eternity here. Even though today was wall to wall blue sky, I had to be elsewhere and by the time I got home - too late.. Damn...!!!

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post #12 of 36 Old 08-11-2008, 04:17 AM
 
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take out the pin holding the pads in and clean it up with emery cloth it worked for me and the brakes been quiet for a few thousand milles now

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post #13 of 36 Old 08-11-2008, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katoom View Post
Ugh, just ran a search and found the answer, there seems to be a issue with these Honda pads and rotors. Guess I will just have to live with it until I can afford Galfer stuff.......
My Honda Pads and rotors have worked fine for me since 02 and for 26k miles. There's a common step that folks miss when they put the front back wheel on. That step is seating the axle which also properly aligns the rotors with the pads.
  1. tightening pinch bolts on one side only (right side when standing in front of the bike)
  2. tight the axle bolt
  3. while holding the front brakes push down 3 or 4 times on the front end.
  4. tighten pinch bolts on the left side.

That should cure your problem.

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post #14 of 36 Old 08-11-2008, 05:41 PM
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If you straddle the bike, it's the left side that you lock down 1st. All bike specs are given like you are on the bike ready to ride.
I cured a lite case of squeals yesterday, I took the calipers off, cleaned and checked for wear. I laid them on a piece of ground granite and lightly sanded with 400 grit paper.
I took a fine flat file and put a small campher all the way around the outside of the braking face of the pads. Then cleaned and lined up the hole in the sheetmetal backing plate, and the retainer pin. Then when I installed the calipers,I pulled forward on the caliper against the bolts as I tightened. This will keep down the vibration, which causes the squeal.

[
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post #15 of 36 Old 08-20-2008, 04:38 PM
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I need to make an addition.

On the above post I left out an important step. I always lock down the left side 1st if I'm by myself.This is so I don't have to try to hold the axle while I torque down the bolt. When every thing is good and tight I loosen up the left side screws and bounce the forks a few times before locking back down. Sorry I didn't proof read before posting.

[
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post #16 of 36 Old 08-20-2008, 05:41 PM
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"I took the calipers off, cleaned and checked for wear. I laid them on a piece of ground granite and lightly sanded with 400 grit paper."

he means rotors, but you get the gist.

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post #17 of 36 Old 08-21-2008, 01:46 PM
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My breaks used to squeak when the when the air temperature was above 70°F. Recently I took my wheels off to have new rubber mounted. My "Handy" stands don't elevate my front axle far enough to remove the front wheel without taking the calipers off, so I do so. When I got my wheels back, there were water spots on the rotors from the tire mounting. I washed both wheels, rotors, and tires. After putting the wheels back on, I no longer have break squeal.

It's probably temporary. I don't attribute it to the rotor washing but to the upset of the harmonics accomplished by removing the wheel and calipers and reinstallation.

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post #18 of 36 Old 08-21-2008, 02:14 PM
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I mean 'brakes". Dang 20 min edit limit!

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post #19 of 36 Old 08-22-2008, 10:36 AM
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every manufacturer mentions normal brake squeals in their manuals, car and bike alike.

i know there are ways to make it better or worse, but in the end, it's all considered a normal part of modern brake materials.

i've never had it on my cars or bikes, and i'm not exactly easy on the binders. but a LOT of it has to do with operator technique.

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post #20 of 36 Old 08-22-2008, 12:53 PM
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How does operator technique cause this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=0

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post #21 of 36 Old 08-22-2008, 01:07 PM
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OUCH - that sounds terrible!


Must be the red paint!










JK... I've never had any issues like THAT with my '02
If I push the bike in neutral, I can hear the pads dragging ever-so-slightly though.

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post #22 of 36 Old 08-22-2008, 04:11 PM
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really Ken? okay, i'm glad to respond to your easily answered hypothetical question. i'm just surprised you couldn't think up these answers on your own, or with the web's help.

well, the operator could have glazed the brakes for one. he could have let the rotors get a light rust. he could have installed or broken / bedded them in improperly. he could have lightly dinged a rotor in some way. any number of mechanical jobs could have been peformed wrong. or, it COULD just be normal for a 919. what's the owners manual say about it?

i know nothing of that bike or that rider (presumbaly you/yours) but there are a fixed set of circumstances that can cause brake noises, up to and including normal operation parameters.

and if you'd like to take issue with my contention that every mfr. considers some degree of brake noise normal, (which was my only contention) go ahead and look at a couple owners manuals in the "brakes" section and prove me wrong.

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post #23 of 36 Old 08-22-2008, 05:37 PM
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Whoa! Did my innocent question bring all that on? I guess I should have known better than to question the Angry Alaskan!

But since the evidence contradicts your reply, let's Play Along with Bucky.
  • The harmonic front brake noise is almost non-existent on '02-'06 919's, but common on '07's. A change in materials perhaps?
  • Many owners, myself included, had the noise reoccur the same day that new Honda rotors and pads were installed.
  • Many owners, myself included, never had the problem reappear (even after thousands of miles) after the installation of Galfer Wave rotors.
I could site more idiosyncrasies, dozens of other posts from 919 owners both here at WT as well as over at fireblades.org, but these ones alone make it highly unlikely that this phenomom is due to 'operator technique'.

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post #24 of 36 Old 08-22-2008, 05:48 PM
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it's not the subject that raises my hackles, it's your selective attention to my words, and you jumping to conclusions based on that selective attention.
and in the end, your words reinforce what i've said rather than defended against it.

you say that it happens in a number of model years to a number of riders, with old and new honda parts and new non-oem parts. care to tell me what DOESN'T change in all those? the operator. but again, storage, bedding in, turning wrenches: those are all operator related and can make a difference and my earlier responses included those possibilities.

also, the primary thing i said is that most mfr's call it normal. how is this not, if so many bikes are doing it? so many cars? trucks? city buses? heck, i'd reckon there's mountain bikes doing it but i don't ride, listen to, or blog with owners of disc brake equipped mountain bikes.

quiet brakes were made with asbestos, but that is now considered folly.

as you've failed to address my points, you've squirmed and brought up other points rather than acknowledge what was right with my words.

have you yet seen that every manufacturer calls it normal?

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post #25 of 36 Old 08-22-2008, 05:55 PM
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If it's "normal" why are Honda dealers working their butts off to fix it under warranty with Honda's blessing? And do you really, honestly believe that the noise you hear in the video posted above is acceptable? I say no. Thousands of other owners agree. As for the operator, the operator is irrelevant when brand new Oem pads and rotors make the noise as soon as they are installed. But, please, don't dance, refute my bullets.

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post #26 of 36 Old 08-22-2008, 11:51 PM
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ok, here's the deal. I have had my rotors replaced by honda 3 times, I have had my pads replaced 4 times, I have tried aftermarket pads and bleeding the brakes. On my last visit to honda my rotors were taken off and sand blasted, the noise has not been back since. I have only put about 3k miles on her since, but that is double what it took to make the new rotors squeal. Also do the people suffering from this symptom have there front shocks adjusted to soft?

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post #27 of 36 Old 08-22-2008, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
it's not the subject that raises my hackles, it's your selective attention to my words, and you jumping to conclusions based on that selective attention.
and in the end, your words reinforce what i've said rather than defended against it.

you say that it happens in a number of model years to a number of riders, with old and new honda parts and new non-oem parts. care to tell me what DOESN'T change in all those? the operator. but again, storage, bedding in, turning wrenches: those are all operator related and can make a difference and my earlier responses included those possibilities.

also, the primary thing i said is that most mfr's call it normal. how is this not, if so many bikes are doing it? so many cars? trucks? city buses? heck, i'd reckon there's mountain bikes doing it but i don't ride, listen to, or blog with owners of disc brake equipped mountain bikes.

quiet brakes were made with asbestos, but that is now considered folly.

as you've failed to address my points, you've squirmed and brought up other points rather than acknowledge what was right with my words.

have you yet seen that every manufacturer calls it normal
you are correct, some squeal while backing up or driving after a rainstorm is normal, but you can agree the noise my bike was making in that video was completely overboard and unacceptable by all vehicle manufacturer's specs.

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post #28 of 36 Old 08-23-2008, 05:15 AM
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My 02 squeals. But I don't care. The brakes are so power full and well bled I will leave it alone.

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post #29 of 36 Old 08-23-2008, 06:48 AM
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  1. tightening pinch bolts on one side only (right side when standing in front of the bike)
  2. tight the axle bolt
  3. while holding the front brakes push down 3 or 4 times on the front end.
  4. tighten pinch bolts on the left side.

That should cure your problem.[/QUOTE]

Have you tried this? I am with you Bucky, the operator has a lot to do with it. However, the person working on it has even more. My 02 just has never had brake noise like that. I am on my third set of Honda pads. (front and rear) Honda rotors and now have 105000 kms on my bike. Your first step should be to put the brake clean on the shelf and not use it on brakes. Great for parts but it makes the brakes squeal. (IMO) Next I would pull the rotors off and clean them well with soap and water, followed by a scotch brite pad. Its like an sos pad but made of plastic. Then after it is all rinsed well put it together using the steps above. I almost guarentee quiet brakes.

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post #30 of 36 Old 08-23-2008, 08:29 AM
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Did you guys even watch the video posted above? you guys are giving generic cure alls for normal brake squeal caused by brake dust getting between the pads and rotors, this is completely different.

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post #31 of 36 Old 08-23-2008, 08:38 PM
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Ya I watch the video. Just because they are generic fixes doesn't mean that they were done. Go with the simplest and cheapest repairs first. I am not saying go out and spend hundreds of dollars on galfer brakes. If the best rotors aren't installed right, they will make noise as well.

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post #32 of 36 Old 08-23-2008, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken View Post
How does operator technique cause this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=0
Man, I thought my 919 had a bit of a noise. This guy's bike sounds like something is loose and/or resonationg. Actually the only other time I ever heard a brake noise this weird was when I once bled the brakes on a bike about 30 years ago and unknowingly let some fluid run onto the brake bicscuits (pads). As the bike came to a hault they moaned real loud similar to those ones. I could not ever get rid of it either, so I replaced the pads to stop it...

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post #33 of 36 Old 08-25-2008, 01:38 AM
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Went for a ride today and funny thing, the brakes never made so much as a single noise. The only thing I have done is put braided lines on...

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post #34 of 36 Old 08-26-2008, 10:34 AM
 
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Hey gentlemen, this is my first post, but I think I can at least contribute; since the same noise first brought me to the website last month. I have an 07 919 and I had nearly the identical decibal and duration. I found it only on the final part of the stroke, not at speed. I tried everything listed on this thread individually; as to not confuse what the cure (for me) was.
As it turns out, the rotors were not centered properly from the factory, or it could have been inconsistant torque values. I removed the calipers and lossened the pinch bolts on both sides. reinstalled the calipers, and tightened the left side pinch bolt. I then squeezed the brakes five times and put the final torque on both side pinch bolts. So far I have gone another 2000 miles without a noise. FYI, the noise started at about 450 miles. Hope this helps and doesn't start another rumble

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post #35 of 36 Old 08-26-2008, 02:05 PM
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rumble rumble...

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post #36 of 36 Old 08-26-2008, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanc919 View Post
Hey gentlemen, this is my first post, but I think I can at least contribute; since the same noise first brought me to the website last month. I have an 07 919 and I had nearly the identical decibal and duration. I found it only on the final part of the stroke, not at speed. I tried everything listed on this thread individually; as to not confuse what the cure (for me) was.
As it turns out, the rotors were not centered properly from the factory, or it could have been inconsistant torque values. I removed the calipers and lossened the pinch bolts on both sides. reinstalled the calipers, and tightened the left side pinch bolt. I then squeezed the brakes five times and put the final torque on both side pinch bolts. So far I have gone another 2000 miles without a noise. FYI, the noise started at about 450 miles. Hope this helps and doesn't start another rumble
Welcome to the site Sean and your explanation makes alot of sense...mine havent squealed yet, but I think I would try this first if they did.


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