Looking at the hornet/ 919. - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 33 Old 07-05-2007, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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Looking at the hornet/ 919.

Hi all, My name is Alex. I have been looking at both the 599 and 919. I have passed the MSF course, but other thn that, have little experience on bikes. I would go with a 599 to start, but I have heard they are designed for the smaller rider. I am 6'1", about 280, so I am defintiely not the smallert rider. What would you suggest? Maybe other bike suggestions? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

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post #2 of 33 Old 07-05-2007, 02:49 PM
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Wow! It looks like no one wants to touch this one!
But I will, I don't know your age? but I would say get the 919, and rig it so you can only get one third throttle. In 3 months get two thirds throttle, and 6 months after that give yourself full throttle.

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post #3 of 33 Old 07-05-2007, 02:51 PM
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post #4 of 33 Old 07-05-2007, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHOBMAN View Post
Wow! It looks like no one wants to touch this one!
But I will, I don't know your age? but I would say get the 919, and rig it so you can only get one third throttle. In 3 months get two thirds throttle, and 6 months after that give yourself full throttle.
Ha! Like anyone is really going to do that. Get the 599. It's lighter, lower, and enough bike for now.

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post #5 of 33 Old 07-05-2007, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alcar721 View Post
Hi all, My name is Alex. I have been looking at both the 599 and 919. I have passed the MSF course, but other thn that, have little experience on bikes. I would go with a 599 to start, but I have heard they are designed for the smaller rider. I am 6'1", about 280, so I am defintiely not the smallert rider. What would you suggest? Maybe other bike suggestions? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Stay at 600cc and below for your first bike, nothing bigger. The main thing to remember when starting off is not to let your confidence get the best of you. Practice the cornering and stopping techniques you learned in your class and don't over extend yourself. You'll get up to a liter bike soon enough, just don't do it until you're ready.
One of the first bikes I ever had was a CB400t (back in the day, I know I'm dating myself now). I'm 6'2" and it was fine for me at the time.

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post #6 of 33 Old 07-05-2007, 03:16 PM
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I'm thinking the 919 might be too much bike for a new rider. My first non-dirt bike way back when was a 1974 Honda CB450, great bike and helped me learn how to handle a larger machine. I soon graduated to a 1978 Suzuki GS750, which was almost more bike than an 18 year old needed, but managed to put 20,000 miles on it without a mishap. I agree that a modern 600cc is more than enough machine to start out with, I personally haven't riden a 599, but if it's anything close to a 919 it has to be a great bike.

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post #7 of 33 Old 07-05-2007, 03:31 PM
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My first bike was the 919. I had it for over a year before I had a small wreck, and it was completely from not paying attention. Woulda happened on a moped. I'd go with the 9'er.

2 > 4
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post #8 of 33 Old 07-05-2007, 03:55 PM
 
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start on a 250, mate.

cheaper insurance, maintenance etc. perhaps, with a few miles under your belt you may not like riding and the thought of exposing yourself to the risks associated will prompt you to sell it. if that's the case you won't lose much on it since it's a small capacity bike.

think about it, when you're new to something it's best to start small(crawl), then work your way up(walk > run).

a 6 0r 9 shows no mercy when you make mistakes. you will make mistakes cus this is part of the learning process.

i'll find some links, or others here could provide it, of newbs coming to grief cus of their lack of experience with a "big" bike as their 1st. don't get me wrong, you still can ****-up on a scooter or whatnot but the margin for error when starting on a bigger bike is just that much greater. why risk it?

i started on a 250. several mths later i bought the 919.

good luck and ride safe.

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post #9 of 33 Old 07-05-2007, 04:21 PM
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if you have some self control and really think you can handle yourself (which you need to be able to do to survive traffic on a motorcycle anyway) go ahead and get the 919.

if you think you need a governer in order to keep yourself from getting in over your head, maybe the 599 is better. but then again, maybe if this is the case a motorcycle isn't for you.

the 919 only weighs about 20 lbs less than the 599, and only has about 20 ft/lbs more torque. i got a 919 as my first motorcycle 3 years ago, and haven't regretted it for a minute. it is extremely easy to handle, and is very forgiving.

i can't say my initiation into riding has been totally trouble free, but none of my offs or near-misses could be blamed on the bike - they would have happened no matter what i was riding (i've gone down twice - both right after i took up riding, very minor (lucky), and both were a result of getting into situations with no outs.) be careful...

if you're getting expensive quotes on 919 insurance just try another company - some companies price it as a sport bike (expensive) and some as a standard (cheap).

edit - ok, after thinking about it, i take my statement about 'not regretting it for a minute' back. i haven't regretted choosing the 919 to ride at all, but i do wish i would have had the patience to get an older bike first, so that the first drop wasn't so expensive. it really is worth considering. but that ship has sailed for me...

...j919

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post #10 of 33 Old 07-05-2007, 04:25 PM
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Oh yeah, when I got that bike I was 19 years old, and only 170lbs. I could control it, but I had already been riding my friends bikes for a while.

2 > 4
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post #11 of 33 Old 07-05-2007, 04:37 PM
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People seem to focus so much on displacement. It seems to me that the throttle is adjustable. Therefore, it's more of a question of maturity and self control. If you are a bansai nutbag like I was as a young man, no amount of displacement limits will help you. I am still here mostly because of luck. You have already completed the class which tells me you are at least somewhat responsible. To me a bike is not more dangerous because of size or amount of horsepower, in fact sometimes a few extra ponies can be a safety feature. Wear some good gear, don't drink and ride, and use your noggin... these are the things that will keep you safe, not buying the slowest bike you can find.

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post #12 of 33 Old 07-05-2007, 04:50 PM
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There's also something to be said for the rider vs. the bike he/she is riding.

Case-in-point: When I recently attended the CCS races at VIR North course, there were SV-650's out there running 1:36's. You are probably asking "What the hell does that have to do with anything?"

Well, i'll tell ya. The SV-650 is often considered as one of the best tools to learn proper riding technique on by those that frequent trackdays and amateur racing. The reasoning behind this is simple. The SV (in naked or "s" trim) is a very lightweight motorcycle, and it has a very respectable 70-75 hp from Suzuki. Combine that with the v-twin power delivery, and you have a winning combination of enough horsepower to move you in and out of situations with ease, and light enough to be very nimble when you decide to start leaning, and chasing curves (asphalt variety you twits). The aftermarket is insanely huge for the SV, as it is a niche bike that is highly coveted by its owners. Resale values remain high, and you could easily find a used one that is already set up with the correct suspension for your weight. Dropping a brand new shiney bike is a miserable experience, and you will be a better rider for starting off with enough bike to ride, and grow into. I will never be a proponent of starting new riders on anything that will get them in serious trouble if an emergency situation arises on the street, (and it will happen). The 919 is a very capable bike, but if the aforementioned situation arises, and you mistakenly twist a little too much, the 9'er can prove to be an uncontrollable beast much quicker than say the SV in the same circumstances.

My opinion only, and I will be more than happy to discuss anything further.

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post #13 of 33 Old 07-05-2007, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RidgeRunner View Post
There's also something to be said for the rider vs. the bike he/she is riding.

Case-in-point: When I recently attended the CCS races at VIR North course, there were SV-650's out there running 1:36's. You are probably asking "What the hell does that have to do with anything?"

Well, i'll tell ya. The SV-650 is often considered as one of the best tools to learn proper riding technique on by those that frequent trackdays and amateur racing. The reasoning behind this is simple. The SV (in naked or "s" trim) is a very lightweight motorcycle, and it has a very respectable 70-75 hp from Suzuki. Combine that with the v-twin power delivery, and you have a winning combination of enough horsepower to move you in and out of situations with ease, and light enough to be very nimble when you decide to start leaning, and chasing curves (asphalt variety you twits). The aftermarket is insanely huge for the SV, as it is a niche bike that is highly coveted by its owners. Resale values remain high, and you could easily find a used one that is already set up with the correct suspension for your weight. Dropping a brand new shiney bike is a miserable experience, and you will be a better rider for starting off with enough bike to ride, and grow into. I will never be a proponent of starting new riders on anything that will get them in serious trouble if an emergency situation arises on the street, (and it will happen). The 919 is a very capable bike, but if the aforementioned situation arises, and you mistakenly twist a little too much, the 9'er can prove to be an uncontrollable beast much quicker than say the SV in the same circumstances.

My opinion only, and I will be more than happy to discuss anything further.
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post #14 of 33 Old 07-05-2007, 05:26 PM
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James, I agree whole heartedly, I would not recomend that our new friend run out and get turbo Busa with a wheelie bar and parachute. I also think a 280 lb. mobil chicayne on a 250 presents a whole different list of safety problems. My point was they can all be dangerous in the wrong hands. Honestly, a new 600 anything would eat the baddest of the bad 1000 from back when I started.

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post #15 of 33 Old 07-05-2007, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Relic11 View Post
People seem to focus so much on displacement. It seems to me that the throttle is adjustable. Therefore, it's more of a question of maturity and self control. If you are a bansai nutbag like I was as a young man, no amount of displacement limits will help you. I am still here mostly because of luck. You have already completed the class which tells me you are at least somewhat responsible. To me a bike is not more dangerous because of size or amount of horsepower, in fact sometimes a few extra ponies can be a safety feature. Wear some good gear, don't drink and ride, and use your noggin... these are the things that will keep you safe, not buying the slowest bike you can find.
+1
If you plan to ride on a highway, underpowered bikes are waaay more dangerous than overpowered.

Get used 919. It is a much more bang for the buck and way better power/weight ratio than 599. Get sliders or even better engine guards. You gonna drop your first bike. We all do. The question is when and at what speed.

After running little 250s on MSF class, you have to condition yourself for throttle control on 919. I found that keeping two fingers on the top of brake level all the time gives that extra stabilization and helps to master smoothness.

On the MSF class I attended there was a guy who rode a liter bike but had only a permit and took a class to get a license. He rode his bike to the class, parked it and did exercises on little 250's. He complained that he almost drop his liter bike after getting used to throttle on 250's during a class ..

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post #16 of 33 Old 07-05-2007, 05:42 PM
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USED sv650.

This choice also gives you room to move up to be a bigger bike in a year or 2.

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post #17 of 33 Old 07-05-2007, 05:47 PM
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919. I dont buy into the "dont get anything bigger than a 600cc for your first bike" bandwaggon. Just respect the machine and you'll be fine.

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post #18 of 33 Old 07-05-2007, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHOBMAN View Post
Wow! It looks like no one wants to touch this one!
But I will, I don't know your age? but I would say get the 919, and rig it so you can only get one third throttle. In 3 months get two thirds throttle, and 6 months after that give yourself full throttle.
919 ok, but control the throttle hand...

Quote:
Originally Posted by j919 View Post
if you have some self control and really think you can handle yourself (which you need to be able to do to survive traffic on a motorcycle anyway) go ahead and get the 919.

if you think you need a governer in order to keep yourself from getting in over your head, maybe the 599 is better. but then again, maybe if this is the case a motorcycle isn't for you.

the 919 only weighs about 20 lbs less than the 599, and only has about 20 ft/lbs more torque. i got a 919 as my first motorcycle 3 years ago, and haven't regretted it for a minute. it is extremely easy to handle, and is very forgiving.

i can't say my initiation into riding has been totally trouble free, but none of my offs or near-misses could be blamed on the bike - they would have happened no matter what i was riding (i've gone down twice - both right after i took up riding, very minor (lucky), and both were a result of getting into situations with no outs.) be careful...
...j919
919 ok, but control the throttle hand...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic11 View Post
People seem to focus so much on displacement. It seems to me that the throttle is adjustable. Therefore, it's more of a question of maturity and self control. If you are a bansai nutbag like I was as a young man, no amount of displacement limits will help you. I am still here mostly because of luck. You have already completed the class which tells me you are at least somewhat responsible. To me a bike is not more dangerous because of size or amount of horsepower, in fact sometimes a few extra ponies can be a safety feature. Wear some good gear, don't drink and ride, and use your noggin... these are the things that will keep you safe, not buying the slowest bike you can find.
919 ok, but control the throttle hand...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic11 View Post
James, I agree whole heartedly, I would not recomend that our new friend run out and get turbo Busa with a wheelie bar and parachute. I also think a 280 lb. mobil chicayne on a 250 presents a whole different list of safety problems. My point was they can all be dangerous in the wrong hands. Honestly, a new 600 anything would eat the baddest of the bad 1000 from back when I started.
I was just seeing the same old repetition.

Don't misunderstand me, I wasn't attacking you or your post. Merely giving my opinion of the average responses I had read. From working in and around bike shops for many years, I have seen and heard the strangest justifications for over-buying the first bike. Everything from "A 600 is a girl's bike", to "I've been riding my buddies fiddy in the Wal-Mart parking lot, street bike ain't much different." The greatest majority of these bikes make their way back to the shop within six months on a rollback. Now, as you stated, Alex is ahead of the game by taking the MSF, and I highly commend him for it. Just watching out, and trying to avoid the stereotypes. No harm intended.

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post #19 of 33 Old 07-05-2007, 06:28 PM
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id agree with ridgerunner. the sv650 would be a great starter bike. 919 is not a powerhouse but to a noob, shifting through 7000-10000rpm could get you into trouble.

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post #20 of 33 Old 07-05-2007, 07:46 PM
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We've wrecked another perfectly good motorcyclist. Our work here is done.

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post #21 of 33 Old 07-06-2007, 03:29 AM
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SV650 - dollar for dollar the best motorcycle on the market. great handling, tons of torque for its size and maybe the most fun you can have with your clothes on.

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post #22 of 33 Old 07-06-2007, 05:01 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the input. The biggest reason I was considering a larger than 600 bikeis because of my size. I have heard the 599's suspension is built for the smaller rider.

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post #23 of 33 Old 07-06-2007, 05:08 AM
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No sportbike I know of is built for large riders. The nature of sportbikes is to make them light, small, and powerful. The SV is setup for a smaller rider as well, which is why I was saying look for a used one. With as many that are used for the track, it should be fairly easy to find one sprung for your weight. The same should hold true for any older sportbike as well. The CBR 600 line, GSXR-600 (no comments from the peanut gallery) are all very popular, and offer a huge aftermarket for suspension.

almost any new sportbike, regardless of the displacement is sprung for a rider between 150-170 lbs. The best mod anyone can do to a sportbike is invest money into setting the suspension up for the rider.

The fit of a bike can be easily overcome with handlebar risers, helibars, aftermarket handlebars, clip-ons, new seat, suspension. all these are customizable traits the rider can use to set a bike up.

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post #24 of 33 Old 07-06-2007, 05:18 AM
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I agree with James. I bought the 919 as my first street bike. I rode off-road bikes as a kid, but nothing prepared me for what that bike had to offer. I enjoyed riding it, but buying it new just held me back, because I was worried about dropping it, doing damage and paying my huge insurance premium. The insurance was one of the reasons I got rid of the 919. I have been much happier riding ever since.

My advice: buy the SV650 or another similar displacement bike. Don't buy new, and go out and take all your growing pains out on it. When your through, go out and buy the bike you want. You may find that you want to move to a sportbike rather than a standard, or be like me and move to a dual-purpose, because all those dirt roads are just too inviting. You won't know until you've ridden for awhile. Good luck, and keep the rubber side down.

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post #25 of 33 Old 07-06-2007, 05:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic11 View Post
People seem to focus so much on displacement. It seems to me that the throttle is adjustable. Therefore, it's more of a question of maturity and self control. If you are a bansai nutbag like I was as a young man, no amount of displacement limits will help you. I am still here mostly because of luck. You have already completed the class which tells me you are at least somewhat responsible. To me a bike is not more dangerous because of size or amount of horsepower, in fact sometimes a few extra ponies can be a safety feature. Wear some good gear, don't drink and ride, and use your noggin... these are the things that will keep you safe, not buying the slowest bike you can find.

Perfectly stated sound advice.

Clinton (150 > 305 > 750 > CBX > 919)

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post #26 of 33 Old 07-06-2007, 06:06 AM
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Whatever bike you decide on, be patient and find a decent used one. If you are going to be trading up in the near future you don't want to be upside down in a new bike. All of the above mentioned bikes are great decisions and they all require some self restraint. Having taken the MSF course already it appears that you have your head on straight. Make a decision based on your attitude and what you want out of riding. Good luck and let us know what you decide or if you dare to ask us another question.

Motorusher formally known as DirtySanchez919.
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post #27 of 33 Old 07-06-2007, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RidgeRunner View Post
No sportbike I know of is built for large riders. The nature of sportbikes is to make them light, small, and powerful. The SV is setup for a smaller rider as well, which is why I was saying look for a used one. With as many that are used for the track, it should be fairly easy to find one sprung for your weight. The same should hold true for any older sportbike as well. The CBR 600 line, GSXR-600 (no comments from the peanut gallery) are all very popular, and offer a huge aftermarket for suspension.

almost any new sportbike, regardless of the displacement is sprung for a rider between 150-170 lbs. The best mod anyone can do to a sportbike is invest money into setting the suspension up for the rider.

The fit of a bike can be easily overcome with handlebar risers, helibars, aftermarket handlebars, clip-ons, new seat, suspension. all these are customizable traits the rider can use to set a bike up.

I'm 6'2" 235 lbs. I had a custom shock made for my FZ and had the forks resprung with firmer springs. Works for me.

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post #28 of 33 Old 07-06-2007, 07:29 AM
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Lots of good opinions but I'd bounce the question back to you:
What kind of riding do you plan to do mostly? Do you want to commute daily? Do you want to blast the highways on weekends?

What is your personality? Are you competitive and like to stoplight race the ricers? Do you have no problem doing the speed limit or are you always in a hurry?

What about finances? Chance are pretty good you will drop your first bike within a year or two, most of us do. Can you tolerate scratching your new baby?

Consider weight and power delivery. A lighter bike is easier to get out of trouble with. Easier to stop and easier to turn. But if you have the maturity to respect the 919 and can deal with mistakes if they happen, then get what you want.

Also realize most of us don't pick the bike we really want the first time. It is an expensive process to try one only to discover what you don't like about that style. The 919 is my fourth bike and it is not perfect but it is very close to what I want.

Now if they would only make an SV850 with upgraded suspension...
David

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post #29 of 33 Old 07-06-2007, 07:44 AM Thread Starter
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I plan on using the bike as my main commuter, weather withstanding. I will also use it as a tourer for weekend getaways and whatnot. Speeding is not a big thing with me, yea, ill go fast from time to time, but always within my driving abilities while in a car, so hopefully that will transfer over nicely to riding. As far as money, I would like to spend no more than 6k to start for everything, bike, and gear. Insurance is not included in that number. As far as if I will cry when I scrape up my bike when I drop it, yea, ill be a little sad, but I realize dropping it is part of the experience of riding. Hope that answered all of your questions.

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post #30 of 33 Old 07-06-2007, 07:47 AM
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Now if they would only make an SV850 with upgraded suspension...
David


Coming soon to an Aprilia dealer near you...

Shiver 750

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post #31 of 33 Old 07-06-2007, 07:53 AM
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Despite the nuttiness we've thrown about, I'd say you're on the right track.
KISS for the first year, then get your brawler if money permits. I started on a 94 Honda night hawk I got for 2500 bones. 750cc. weighs about 450lbs. I dropped it about 5 times, once semi- badly, then stopped dropping it. Took the msf (bully you for that) treated myself to a new bike. Take your time, shop around.

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post #32 of 33 Old 07-06-2007, 08:16 AM
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919 is a reasonably good choice for what you describe and you could find enough used ones to meet your price point pretty easily. A lot of folks like the older bandit but I personally ruled out commuting on an air cooled bike in Houston.

Fz1 is a good bike but I have been told that its power delivery is more sport bike like (power comes on in the upper RPM's).

If you are going to go with a bigger bike, IMHO the 919 is one of the most learner friendly because of its low end power delivery.

If it were me in your shoes, I might look around for one of the naked SV1000's too. Don't have much first hand experience but they always looked interesting.

(and not to contribute to the threadjack, but that Aprilia Shiver is pretty droolworthy. I'm keeping an eye on it to see how the reliability is and if they are going to release a larger engine version.)
David

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post #33 of 33 Old 07-06-2007, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djs_tx View Post
Fz1 is a good bike but I have been told that its power delivery is more sport bike like (power comes on in the upper RPM's).
This is true.

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