Lighter clutch pull? - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 15 Old 11-10-2018, 09:20 PM Thread Starter
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Lighter clutch pull?

Seems like a F4i clutch perch helps a little, I've tried a CRG lever and that seems minimal. I've also heard or people removing a clutch spring or two but hesitant about that.

Any thoughts?

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post #2 of 15 Old 11-11-2018, 08:13 AM
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Lighter ??????
Yikes, less would be none!
Is there some other issue involved?

As for the F4i perch, I have that on my bike, only to move the pivot closer to the bar for better reach.
It doesn't affect the leverage at all, just moves the lever in a bit.
By the same token, I use the CRG to move the lever in yet more.
I'm still not happy with it, so have a Suzuki perch and CRG lever to fit up over the winter.

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post #3 of 15 Old 11-11-2018, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ditch View Post
Seems like a F4i clutch perch helps a little, I've tried a CRG lever and that seems minimal. I've also heard or people removing a clutch spring or two but hesitant about that.

Any thoughts?
Anyone that is removing clutch springs to get a lighter feel on the lever is a fool.

I looked at a guys bike one time years ago. He had an aftermarket clutch lever and it was damn hard to work. I pulled the lever our of the housing and it didn't have a bushing or lube. It was alum on alum and the fitting was elongated.

I added some grease to help a bit but he really needed a new lever with a hardened bushing or bearing.

I did the same thing for a friends bone stock setup, but that one had the bushing.

IDK if you've taken yours apart, but they do wear out over time. Mine seems to have a bit extra play and drag, it doesn't snap out fully and has some wobble. What I've seen are cheap knock off adjustable types.
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post #4 of 15 Old 11-11-2018, 09:20 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcromo44 View Post
Lighter ??????
Yikes, less would be none!
Is there some other issue involved?

As for the F4i perch, I have that on my bike, only to move the pivot closer to the bar for better reach.
It doesn't affect the leverage at all, just moves the lever in a bit.
By the same token, I use the CRG to move the lever in yet more.
I'm still not happy with it, so have a Suzuki perch and CRG lever to fit up over the winter.
The issues are with a bone I broke in my hand several years ago, not a big deal but I thought it was worth looking into.

About the F4i perch, in theory, closer to the bar makes it feels lighter correct? Does your Suzuki perch have better leverage?

What about something like a Pazzo?

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post #5 of 15 Old 11-11-2018, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ditch View Post
The issues are with a bone I broke in my hand several years ago, not a big deal but I thought it was worth looking into.

About the F4i perch, in theory, closer to the bar makes it feels lighter correct? Does your Suzuki perch have better leverage?

What about something like a Pazzo?
Ahhh, that does make a difference.
My situation is different.
For me it was all about ergo fit.
The stock perch and lever forced me to reach for it every time.
Not only was that not good for track days, it also has your hand working less advantageously because of flexing from at or near full reach.
The F4i perch moved it in a bit, but nowhere near enough.
Then I put the CRG on it, still have it on, and at position 1.
While I normally 3 (middle) finger clutch, I can do 2s, but don't like it as well.
Keep in mind that I do not have strong hands at all, not only am I a pinner, I'm near 65 too.

As an experiment, try adding a bunch of slack to your clutch, such that the lever is not doing anything until it's back some.
Play with the "how much" a bit, and see what you find.
You may find that a revised lever position solves your issue.
Expect to get some clutch drag when you do this, something that can easily be skirted about for a short experiment.
To a degree, you can tell even if the bike is not running.
This way you will know before paying for parts, whether they will help you or not.

Other levers that are highly adjustable will serve just as well as a CRG.
The CRG gives about an inch of adjustment range from 1 to 5, as measured at the ball end of the lever.

The stock 919 lever is awful from an ergo point of view, at least I feel it is vis a vis what I want.

I haven't tried the Suzuki perch and CRG lever yet.
I eyeballed things and gambled and bought the parts.
I know I can match the 919 cable end without much difficulty.
To be honest, I expect the Suzuki perch and CRG lever to offer LESS leverage, not more, as the clutch design is radically different.

Anyway, try my suggested experiment first.
The cost is right, that's for sure.
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post #6 of 15 Old 11-11-2018, 02:55 PM
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By the way, the F4i perch uses the same stop light switch as the 919's.
And the cable matches up perfectly with nothing needing to be done.
I can't remember if the lever is common though.

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post #7 of 15 Old 11-11-2018, 06:59 PM
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This is simple physics. If you look at the distance, say 3" measured at the end of a stock lever, then you look at the distance that does nothing, maybe 1/2 that distance, then you change the fulcrum.

A rough guess is that you can change the fulcrum such that 1/2 the pull is removed or 1/2 the effort is needed to do the same work.

I use the "1/3" rule. 1/3 the way out, the clutch starts to catch and finishes the catch with 1/3 travel left.

So that gives 1/3 for the actual catch. Removing 1/2 from that, still works, it's just that it catches sooner and finishes sooner.

You could make one adjustable just like the adjustable foot peg.

The adjustable foot peg would basically take a foot pet and cut it in 1/2 and drill clocking holes to offset the peg.

One "quick" test you could do is get a throwaway lever, drill the catch point for the lever so that it's in closer to the pivot point. If it's 1" from the pivot point, make it 3/4" and see how that works.

You could take some solder and a bushing, fill with solder, then drill it out and add the bushing.

One other note: my Nighthawk 700S has a hydro clutch. It would be a bit of work, but converting over to hydro would allow changing of the diameter to change the pull force needed. You'd have to mount a hydro slave from some car or bike, the Nighthawk uses an internal throwout bearing. Grabbing one from a Toyota/Datsun should do the job, then just size to fit.

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post #8 of 15 Old 11-12-2018, 02:06 AM
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I'm sure Kiwi recently fitted a hydraulic clutch to his 900 hornet. Don't know if it made much difference. I couldn't find his posts on it.

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post #9 of 15 Old 11-12-2018, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlJay View Post
This is simple physics. If you look at the distance, say 3" measured at the end of a stock lever, then you look at the distance that does nothing, maybe 1/2 that distance, then you change the fulcrum.
Yes, the leverage ratios are simple Physics.
But the ergonomics are Kinesiology based.
Ditch may have leverage and/or ergo' limitations to work around.

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post #10 of 15 Old 11-12-2018, 05:53 PM
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I'm thinking that drilling a hole in the attachment point on the clutch arm should change the leverage. Attaching an adjustable plate isn't all that hard.

Wonder what this is all about "easy pull clutch":

https://www.revzilla.com/dirt-bike/m...hoC52oQAvD_BwE

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post #11 of 15 Old 11-12-2018, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
I'm sure Kiwi recently fitted a hydraulic clutch to his 900 hornet. Don't know if it made much difference. I couldn't find his posts on it.
Yeah, I did. Couldn't say that it made it heaps easier in terms of pull, but it's smooth and ultra-predictable. It might be possible to build an easier one with a range of components to mix-and-match from [Magura?] but I started with a GSX650F master cylinder that fell into my lap, and went from there.

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post #12 of 15 Old 11-13-2018, 09:40 AM Thread Starter
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I removed the cable to clean and lube, that will probably help it was fairly dry and dirty in there. Will mount it when the new perch gets here.

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post #13 of 15 Old 11-13-2018, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ditch View Post
I removed the cable to clean and lube, that will probably help it was fairly dry and dirty in there. Will mount it when the new perch gets here.
Someone with a fish scale should be able to test the amount of pull. I know a cable can get really bad.

I replaced mine with a new one because it wasn't popping all the way out. I lubed and cleaned and that didn't change it much. The new cable didn't even make much different as it still doesn't pop out fully.

I've got some 3n1 oil now, so I can try that.

What oil are you using to lube the cable?

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post #14 of 15 Old 11-13-2018, 12:50 PM
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I use 3n1 oil, but have used a light motor oil before. Don't forget the syringe tip. I regularly lube my cables. They seem to dry out quick. Maybe once a month or so. They take a good ml each time.

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post #15 of 15 Old 11-13-2018, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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I used a aerosol silicon spray and then tri-flo. It's used by mountain bike guys.

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