Lightened flywheel - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 36 Old 04-02-2009, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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Lightened flywheel

Has anyone here lightened their flywheel and if so how much is "safe"

Thinking of doing this to the 9er



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post #2 of 36 Old 04-02-2009, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
Has anyone here lightened their flywheel and if so how much is "safe"

Thinking of doing this to the 9er

Oh leave it alone ...You'll never keep up with the FZ1


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post #3 of 36 Old 04-02-2009, 07:48 PM
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a 520 race chain will save you more rotating weight, easier.

unless "rev-ability" in neutral is your concern.

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post #4 of 36 Old 04-02-2009, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
a 520 race chain will save you more rotating weight, easier.

unless "rev-ability" in neutral is your concern.
That is on the list also.

But you honestly don't beleive it would only improve unloaded revability.



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post #5 of 36 Old 04-02-2009, 09:27 PM Thread Starter
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mr mike?? you got any ideas?? anybody??



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post #6 of 36 Old 04-02-2009, 09:54 PM
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post #7 of 36 Old 04-02-2009, 10:02 PM
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You would be destroying one of the 919's best qualities - smoothness.

Professional
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post #8 of 36 Old 04-02-2009, 10:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbeenracer View Post
You would be destroying one of the 919's best qualities - smoothness.
ok... thats a down side... what would the upsides be??



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post #9 of 36 Old 04-02-2009, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
ok... thats a down side... what would the upsides be??
you might gain that little bit of acceleration and enjoyment for your wheelies until you blow the bike up and or throw it down on purpose. Then get you a speed triple or FZ1(if it was naked)

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post #10 of 36 Old 04-02-2009, 10:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zookmor View Post
you might gain that little bit of acceleration and enjoyment for your wheelies until you blow the bike up and or throw it down on purpose. Then get you a speed triple or FZ1(if it was naked)
i am not opposed to a fz1 in the least...

but honestly my next bike will rhyme with the words...

bugatti sleeplighter....



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post #11 of 36 Old 04-02-2009, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
i am not opposed to a fz1 in the least...

but honestly my next bike will rhyme with the words...

bugatti sleeplighter....
That costs more than I have. I like the FZ1, but I rather the looks of naked.

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post #12 of 36 Old 04-02-2009, 10:58 PM
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Any reduction in rotating mass of the crank train will result in faster acceleration (positive and negative) of the train, but only when unloaded. When driving the rear wheel the mass becomes considerably greater, most notably pushing the mass of the motorcycle against the earth's mass, the ever increasing reluctance of the air to get out of the way as speeds increase, and the extra mass of the various engine components rotating. When a 10% decrease in flywheel mass is figured into the equation little if any difference in acceleration will be evident past first gear.

You will, however, notice a marginally quicker shift up or down and breakaway into a rear slide will be a bit more difficult to control as the suddenly unloaded engine gains revs faster, overwhelming the available traction quicker.

In the final analysis, unless you can find an internal flywheel alternator there is little that can be gained without weakening the flywheel badly, and if you have ever seen the results of a fragged lightened flywheel you'd be reluctant to play with it much.

Rob

If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
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post #13 of 36 Old 04-02-2009, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
and if you have ever seen the results of a fragged lightened flywheel you'd be reluctant to play with it much.

Rob
Thank for being the voice of reason, logic, and experience, because I would just say to have at it.

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post #14 of 36 Old 04-02-2009, 11:01 PM Thread Starter
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thanks rob... now i see its not worth the effort for the return...

you are truly a god amonst men......

p.s. hows the knee??

and also... is there any real danger going to the 520 chain and sprockets?? no problems with chain breakage??



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post #15 of 36 Old 04-02-2009, 11:49 PM
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Flywheel lightening works much better on V-twins that have atypical flywheels as they need the extra weight to keep the crank spinning all the way around between engine pulses.

However the end result in those cases is an engine that has to be idled up unusually high and in some cases it can actually hurt overall performance because the engine spins up so much quicker that it hurts the drive out of the turns with the rear wheel spinning instead of gripping.

With the inline 4's some benefit can be obtained, but it is very marginal. I think it would be a great experimental project to do on the 919 and I guarantee the results will be much more quantifiable & easily proven on a dyno than say a ram-air mod...


As far as the 520 chain conversion I have ran or am currently running the DID ERV3 520 chain on my RC51, 2 1000RR's and the GSXR1000. Almost entirely track use with 40-50 events per season over the last several years and am getting 10,000-12,000 miles out of them (in all weather conditions btw) which is more than I have ever managed to get on a stock 530 or 525 (900RR) chain ever even with just street use rather than the abuses of the race track. I've heard from more street oriented riders that they can get upwards of 20,000 miles with little more than the occasional spray of WD-40 and proper chain maintenance. Most riders don't realize the importance of proper chain slack which I think is crucial to the longevity of both the chain & the sprockets. Additionally many don't know that if you raise the rear ride height of the bike that you have to allow for more chain slack too & of course it is always better to be too loose than too tight as a chain that is too tight limits the movement of the suspension, digs into the sprockets and can even pull on the countershaft bearing seal and eventually cause a leak or failure.

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post #16 of 36 Old 04-03-2009, 08:10 AM Thread Starter
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thanks for the advice on the 520 chain...

even if you did toss in a dig about the ram air...

had a 11pm dash down the palmetto expressway last night with a 05-07 gszr600... couldnt stay with me on a 1.5 mile straight run... fell back.. and back... and back... lol... i have a 17t front on there and the bike happily pulls to the rev limiter in 6th...



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post #17 of 36 Old 04-03-2009, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
thanks for the advice on the 520 chain...

even if you did toss in a dig about the ram air...

had a 11pm dash down the palmetto expressway last night with a 05-07 gszr600... couldnt stay with me on a 1.5 mile straight run... fell back.. and back... and back... lol... i have a 17t front on there and the bike happily pulls to the rev limiter in 6th...
Good deal barton...Do the 520 set up...You'll like it I'm sure


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post #18 of 36 Old 04-03-2009, 10:29 AM
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"happily pulls to rev limiter in 6th" ... ? what's indicated mph? are you SURE you're on the limiter? i rode for miles w.o.t. with my chin on the tank and no helmet.... hearing EVERYTHING with my head behind the clocks, in the still zone. you wouldn't beLIEVE how much cam chain you can hear! but i never heard nor felt limiter stutter. (back when the bike was fairly stock...FAIRLY)

i guess my earlier post's brevity was unappreciated.

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post #19 of 36 Old 04-03-2009, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
" i rode for miles w.o.t. with my chin on the tank and no helmet.....
Bucky! What were you thinking? Put your helmet back on!

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post #20 of 36 Old 04-03-2009, 11:30 AM
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i thought about this once to, but i was going to find a light one of something else that might fit. maybe a1000rr or sumfin

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post #21 of 36 Old 04-03-2009, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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If you would like fly here and ride the thing. After 24 f'ing years of riding I know what a rev limiter is



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post #22 of 36 Old 04-03-2009, 12:07 PM
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I can't recall for sure, but I seem to remember the 919 having a soft limiter type deal in the higher gears. It's just a little ignition chop that limits the peak power not an actual hard limiter that cuts out completely.

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post #23 of 36 Old 04-03-2009, 12:22 PM
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Does the reduced rotating mass of the 520 conversion increase the engine brake effect? The 919 already has more engine braking than I am used too. I was surprised when the rear tire broke loose on a few down shifts.

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post #24 of 36 Old 04-03-2009, 12:27 PM
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reduced flywheel effect reduces "engine braking"

Wraith, that's one reason why i went racing and don't street ride anymore. 147 indicated mph in jeans, tank top, goggles and gloves.

funny Barton, as rev limiters have been on bikes for, what? 5 years or so of those 24 years? also, experience doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. those COULD have been 24 years with your head up your ___ for all i know. and i guess chest thumping is more important to you, but would you respond: what was the max velocity indicated speed ?

"yes, i'm sure" would have been a viable response, along with " a hair under buck-fitty"

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post #25 of 36 Old 04-03-2009, 03:02 PM Thread Starter
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Yes I'm sure. And I was not at all concerned with looking at that moment space and time. Had my eyes glued to the road. But would the descriptive "faster than the other guy was capable of" make you happy? I didn't think so

[/subject]



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post #26 of 36 Old 04-03-2009, 03:27 PM
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With a 16/45 setup it is quite obvious when I hit the rev. limiter, as well as the second before. I am not claiming to know everything about motorcycles; however I do know my bike and that INDICATE 156 the rev limiter kicks in. It pulls strong until INDICATED 152 the last 4mph to climb is not as linear as the rest of the power on when I am riding.

Good insight on the 520 chain LDH.....But can we let the Ram Air thing go yet?

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post #27 of 36 Old 04-03-2009, 05:52 PM
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i know when passing cars 2-3 gear hiting rev limiter is scary ****, mostly cuz im watch the road and not the tach. and it just hits hard, feels like it could throw you over the bars if you didnt know what was going to happen. of course there is no real reason to hit the rev limiter as peak power is not at rev limiter but much lower.

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post #28 of 36 Old 04-03-2009, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dcycle View Post
of course there is no real reason to hit the rev limiter as peak power is not at rev limiter but much lower.
Hey hey hey stop that $h!t! That makes way too much sense & we'll have none that around here...

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post #29 of 36 Old 04-03-2009, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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Hitting the rev limited in the lower gears is useless. But when you hit it in 6th it means you are moving rapidly....

But everyone knows that some people think that something is not possible unless they do it...then you are to unquestioningly believe them. But if someone else works on something and experiments and modifys and improves something they are liars and "chestbeaters"...

I really careless about the opinion Of naysayers. Some people only prop themselves up by pissing on others.

[/subject][/again]



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post #30 of 36 Old 04-03-2009, 08:07 PM
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This thread went down hill fast.

At lest people can't blame 919'ers for not be pasionate.

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post #31 of 36 Old 04-03-2009, 08:45 PM
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I find it quite amusing, but then I see a trend here in direction from where most of the **** is flying

Me personally, well I have 3 bikes to finish prepping, 4 tires to change and a trailer to load so I can go play at the track instead of arguing on the internet.

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post #32 of 36 Old 04-03-2009, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post
Some people only prop themselves up by pissing on others.

[/subject][/again]
Interesting comment, given you attack anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with you. If you want to do this, go for it. Because, until someone tries it the opinions aren't worth much. And, as long as you don't go so far as weakening the flywheel to the point of breaking, the worst case scenario is about $200 for a new flywheel.

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post #33 of 36 Old 04-03-2009, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
With the inline 4's some benefit can be obtained, but it is very marginal. I think it would be a great experimental project to do on the 919 and I guarantee the results will be much more quantifiable & easily proven on a dyno than say a ram-air mod...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
Hey hey hey stop that $h!t! That makes way too much sense & we'll have none that around here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Duckhunter View Post
I find it quite amusing, but then I see a trend here in direction from where most of the **** is flying
last word on this subject...

funny thing ... my phone rings off the hook people asking me what your problem is... is it because i dont bow and worship your knowledge like others?

i don't know.... what is your problem??

you have a link on your signature asking people if they think they are faster than you... if you click on it.. it is like a little insult generator..nice...

you toss me a cherry bomb in another thread because and i quote.. "the butt dyno is never accurate"... then in your own site you crow about your ability to "feel changes as small as 1 to 2 horsepower"...

if in this thread i had said i took a cbr1000rr,cbr600rr,gsxr1000 etc.. to the rev limiter in 6th.. you would not have made a peep... only because it is a 919 you feel the incessant need to pop off... or maybe its me... maybe you don't like me... i don't care...

do me a favor ... next time you come to miami or anywhere in the neighboring 200 mile circumference let me know... i will ride there and we can discuss your problem in person..

have a nice track day tomorrow...

Brian



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post #34 of 36 Old 04-03-2009, 09:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike View Post
Interesting comment, given you attack anyone and everyone who doesn't agree with you. If you want to do this, go for it. Because, until someone tries it the opinions aren't worth much. And, as long as you don't go so far as weakening the flywheel to the point of breaking, the worst case scenario is about $200 for a new flywheel.
i allready said i wasnt going to try the lightned flywheel.. but would go with the 520 chain and sprockets...



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post #35 of 36 Old 04-03-2009, 10:01 PM
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i allready said i wasnt going to try the lightned flywheel.. but would go with the 520 chain and sprockets...
Oops, didn't read that one. I still think it would be interesting. However, the 520 conversion is proven to work.

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post #36 of 36 Old 04-03-2009, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barton664 View Post

do me a favor ... next time you come to miami or anywhere in the neighboring 200 mile circumference let me know... i will ride there and we can discuss your problem in person..
Let me tell you something and I suggest you listen real good on this one. I am an extremely tolerant person and I can take it just as well as I can dish it out. I am a very firm believer in that anyone should be able to express their opinion dissenting or not, but I am also a moderator on this site as well as many others and I assure you that if you threaten me or anyone else for that matter on this site again regardless of how veiled it is I will have you removed from this site.

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