Is the 919 Speedometer Adjustable? - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 26 Old 06-15-2020, 10:03 PM Thread Starter
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Is the 919 Speedometer Adjustable?

The speedo on my '02 919 seems to be off by quite a bit. Using an LEO radar, 27mph shows 30mph on the speedo. 52 on the radar shows 60 on the speedo. At normal highway traffic speeds ~75mph the speedo is at 85mph. The sprockets are 43/16 and is using the recommended tire sizes. F:120/70/17 R:180/55/17

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post #2 of 26 Old 06-16-2020, 12:55 AM
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A 17/44 sprocket set will get you closer, or there's this:

https://www.healtech-electronics.com/products/sh/
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post #3 of 26 Old 06-16-2020, 07:30 AM
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These work like a charm.
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post #4 of 26 Old 06-16-2020, 07:57 AM Thread Starter
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I'll have to do some more radar testing. Sprockets and tires are OEM sizes. Is this a common thing with this bike? Approximately 10mph off at freeway speeds seems excessive.

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post #5 of 26 Old 06-16-2020, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by tomsza View Post
Is this a common thing with this bike? Approximately 10mph off at freeway speeds seems excessive.
Yup, All the 919's are the same...
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post #6 of 26 Old 06-16-2020, 01:43 PM
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Conversely (because they got sued for it) the odometer is almost perfect on a stock bike. If you install a speedo healer, your odometer will read less than actual mileage. More importantly, your trip meter will say you've only gone ~130 miles when you've actually gone ~146.

Just something to keep in mind when you're choosing gas stops or trying to use distance between turns style navigation.
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post #7 of 26 Old 06-16-2020, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Firebolt View Post
Conversely (because they got sued for it) the odometer is almost perfect on a stock bike. If you install a speedo healer, your odometer will read less than actual mileage. More importantly, your trip meter will say you've only gone ~130 miles when you've actually gone ~146.

Just something to keep in mind when you're choosing gas stops or trying to use distance between turns style navigation.
So my fuel mileage is a bit better than I think it is?

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post #8 of 26 Old 06-16-2020, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Firebolt View Post
Conversely (because they got sued for it) the odometer is almost perfect on a stock bike. If you install a speedo healer, your odometer will read less than actual mileage. More importantly, your trip meter will say you've only gone ~130 miles when you've actually gone ~146.

Just something to keep in mind when you're choosing gas stops or trying to use distance between turns style navigation.
Good point re odo distance versus what the highway sign distance to next stop.
A bit of mental math will be necessary sometimes in order to keep out of trouble.
The best judge of all is knowing how many miles or kms you can get out of your tank after the fuel light is solid red (on flat road at steady cruise).
Touring without having a really good handle on that is pure folly.

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post #9 of 26 Old 06-17-2020, 08:25 AM
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So my fuel mileage is a bit better than I think it is?
Only if you have changed gearing or installed a speedo healer (or both). The stock 919 odometer is within 2% accuracy according to my GPS. The speedo ranges from 11-15% high compared to actual.

My 2013 CB500X speedometer and odometer were both very close to true, and both indicated a little bit above actual, so I wasn't too worried about the difference between them when I changed the gearing and installed the speedo healer. The gearing changed about 12%, so I adjusted 12% with the speedo healer. Whatever inaccuracy was inherent with the stock system remained the same.

I'm working with a graphic artist buddy of mine to change the location of the numbers on the 919 speedometer face by about 10%, so the speedometer will show more accurate, and the odometer will still be as accurate as stock. Using a speedo healer with a corrected gauge face to account for gearing changes will keep speed and odometer accurate.

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post #10 of 26 Old 06-17-2020, 12:42 PM
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Only if you have changed gearing.....
Yep, 17/44.

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post #11 of 26 Old 06-20-2020, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Firebolt View Post
I'm working with a graphic artist buddy of mine to change the location of the numbers on the 919 speedometer face by about 10%, so the speedometer will show more accurate, and the odometer will still be as accurate as stock. Using a speedo healer with a corrected gauge face to account for gearing changes will keep speed and odometer accurate.
Funny: I did the same thing about six years ago, but decided that an optimistic speedo might (that's might) cut down on speeding tickets. Largely, it works.

The only problem I had was getting the needle off in order to replace the face. The needle is pressed on to the post, but once you take it off the meter movement will rotate to ~6:00 position, though not accurately enough to be a reliable indicator of it's position. Although I did not replace the face, I did come up with a way to remove the needle while keeping the movement in the correct position when reinstalling it. Simply stated, I ground the tip of a small hemostat to fit between the needle body and the movement, then using a piece of old circuit board drilled it to locate the pegs on the movement, glued a piece of wood of the correct thickness to serve as a base for the handle of the hemostat, let the needle rest against the stop, clamped the post, and clamped the hemostat to the wood. When removing the needle the movement did not move, so when the new face was installed the needle could be pressed on against the stop post. Never used it, and I could not tell you where it is now. Sorry. There is another way, but it requires an adjustable square wave generator to drive the needle to a repeatable position without using the original face.

I am including an attachment of a JPEG of the face I designed. It does not include KPH, though it would not be difficult to add it, or as the primary scale.

Rob
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File Type: jpg 919 Speedo face corrected JPG 20 Jun 2020.jpg (33.7 KB, 16 views)

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post #12 of 26 Old 06-21-2020, 08:01 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
Funny: I did the same thing about six years ago ...

Rob
Did you have the new speedo face printed in vinyl for an overlay? Sounds like a winter project I could do in Illustrator.

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post #13 of 26 Old 06-21-2020, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
Funny: I did the same thing about six years ago, but decided that an optimistic speedo might (that's might) cut down on speeding tickets. Largely, it works.

The only problem I had was getting the needle off in order to replace the face. The needle is pressed on to the post, but once you take it off the meter movement will rotate to ~6:00 position, though not accurately enough to be a reliable indicator of it's position. Although I did not replace the face, I did come up with a way to remove the needle while keeping the movement in the correct position when reinstalling it. Simply stated, I ground the tip of a small hemostat to fit between the needle body and the movement, then using a piece of old circuit board drilled it to locate the pegs on the movement, glued a piece of wood of the correct thickness to serve as a base for the handle of the hemostat, let the needle rest against the stop, clamped the post, and clamped the hemostat to the wood. When removing the needle the movement did not move, so when the new face was installed the needle could be pressed on against the stop post. Never used it, and I could not tell you where it is now. Sorry. There is another way, but it requires an adjustable square wave generator to drive the needle to a repeatable position without using the original face.

I am including an attachment of a JPEG of the face I designed. It does not include KPH, though it would not be difficult to add it, or as the primary scale.

Rob
That's good stuff. I keep swapping between my Buell, CB500X, and the 919. The XB12R and the 500X are both within 2-3 mph at 80, but the 919 is way off. I get a few aggressive close passes every time I hop on the highway with the 919 before I remember that I need to be going ~90 on the speedo to actually be going 80.

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post #14 of 26 Old 06-21-2020, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by tomsza View Post
Did you have the new speedo face printed in vinyl for an overlay? Sounds like a winter project I could do in Illustrator.
Originally I intended to make a silkscreen using a photofabrication technique, but since I decided to leave well enough alone the project was abandoned before completing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Firebolt View Post
That's good stuff. I keep swapping between my Buell, CB500X, and the 919. The XB12R and the 500X are both within 2-3 mph at 80, but the 919 is way off. I get a few aggressive close passes every time I hop on the highway with the 919 before I remember that I need to be going ~90 on the speedo to actually be going 80.
Actually, I always go a little faster than the traffic around me, so surprises are few and far between. Rarely do I look at the speedo. Learned over forty years on the mean streets and freeways of LA, and it has served me well.

Rob

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post #15 of 26 Old 06-21-2020, 11:22 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Originally I intended to make a silkscreen using a photofabrication technique, but since I decided to leave well enough alone the project was abandoned before completing it.
I was a screen printer for three years (garments, poly substrates and metals). You would probably want to do the tach also so they would match. Are they easy to crack open and get the face plates off?
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post #16 of 26 Old 06-22-2020, 03:59 PM
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I was a screen printer for three years (garments, poly substrates and metals). You would probably want to do the tach also so they would match.
Given your experience with slkscreening it would seem to be the perfect process. Fortunately I have a tach face already removed from a damaged instrument cluster. It should be no problem to draft it up. I wonder if there documentation of the indication error for the tach. It would be easy to juggle the face to more accurately reflect what the engine is doing.
Quote:
Are they easy to crack open and get the face plates off?
Take a look at post #11 in this thread. It outlines the procedure for removal of the needle while maintaining the air core motor orientation to enable accurately reinstalling the needle.

I had to redesign the pattern to more accurately reflect the error you outlined previously and included a JPEG of the face and a negative of it if you are going to use photosensitive silkscreen. Also i can export the design in a variety of CAD formats if you can use them.

Rob
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File Type: jpg 919 speedometer face 1dec13 scale 22 Jun 2020.jpg (98.5 KB, 9 views)

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post #17 of 26 Old 06-22-2020, 05:29 PM
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Rob,
I did some tacho proofing on my 919 back in 2007.
For the 3-7000 RPM checks I used the PC software on my laptop to compare to the tacho.
Here are the results of that:
Indicated by Needle / Laptop Reading
3,000 / 3,000
5,000 / 4,900
7,000 / 6,800

During a dyno run, I asked the operator to do a high RPM check under engine load.
Here is the result of that:
10,500 / 10,250

The blended average error of the reported values is a nominal 2% high on the needle.
A 2% error @ 1200 idle RPM is only 24 RPM, so easily masked by just a touch of flutter and/or parallex.
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post #18 of 26 Old 06-22-2020, 08:33 PM
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Thanks! I thought you had done an accuracy check on the tachometer, but I couldn't find it.

IOW, it's good enough, but I can't leave it at that. All it takes is a slight rotation to get it closer.

Rob

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post #19 of 26 Old 06-23-2020, 05:10 AM
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I have the 17/44 gearing and a 12 O'Clock Labs speedometer corrector on my bike (installed by the previous owner or owner before him). I have it set to read 8% lower and it's basically dead-nuts on until I get past 60 MPH, then it starts to be off again. When the speedometer reads 75 MPH, I'm closer to 72 MPH.

I'm more concerned about my "farting around town" speeds than I am interstate speeds, especially when burning through the twisty roads in the back woods of Alabama. Small-town cops gotta get that revenue!

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post #20 of 26 Old 06-25-2020, 01:19 PM
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Finalized the tach, and added a 1200 RPM (idle) line just because I could.

Is there a translucent screen ink / whatever? It will be necessary to print the red regions with that to be sure it is visible at night. And, of course, a second screen for that color.

Drawing on my experience with fabricating printed circuit boards I'm going to etch the positive image in copper. The substrate is glass / epoxy, and is translucent. Should be interesting.

Rob
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File Type: jpg 919 Tach face JPG 25 Jun 2020.jpg (99.0 KB, 7 views)

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post #21 of 26 Old 06-25-2020, 01:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
Given your experience with silkscreening it would seem to be the perfect process.
Um, no. Unless I was going to print 50 of them, photo emulsion screen printing is too laborious. I would find a semi-transparent back plate out of something like acrylic and have the artwork cut out of vinyl and affixed to that. With vinyl you could also have some kind of design or pattern printed on it (CMYK). That would also need a UV layer.
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post #22 of 26 Old 06-25-2020, 07:26 PM
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See the photo. That's the back of the gauge face. There are innumerable tiny black dots printed on it in order to insure even illumination over the entire face. Without it there would be a very bright section in the middle and little light elsewhere. Obviously it would be nearly impossible to print that on a piece of acrylic.

The best / only solution is to carefully sand the paint (or whatever it is) completely off the original face then apply the vinyl. Remember as well to make two circular clear areas where the two screws hold the face to the air motor. If the screw heads seat against the vinyl it can cause localized lifting away from the plastic base. What is the temperature range of the vinyl and adhesive? It can get quite hot in the instrument enclosure.

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File Type: jpg Speedo back.jpg (149.9 KB, 7 views)

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post #23 of 26 Old 06-25-2020, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
See the photo. That's the back of the gauge face. There are innumerable tiny black dots printed on it in order to insure even illumination over the entire face
Thanks for the image. That's a grayscale gradiation dot pattern that can be replicated in Photoshop and possibly printed on a clear piece of vinyl to affix to the back. Would it take some trial and error - probably. If you can take that face plate completely off, you could simply scan it and make a replica. But this would all depend on the subsurface scattering characteristics of the replacement material to be used.

Winters are long and cold in my state. This could make for an interesting side project.

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post #24 of 26 Old 06-26-2020, 04:56 PM
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Printed the speedometer image directly from my CAD program on a transparency and used that as a mask for etching on a photosensitive copper clad board normally used for printed circuit boards. It came out decent for a first try, just needs a more opaque mask. Nonetheless it's a good start!

Rob
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 919 speedo copper.jpg (258.2 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20200626_171737009[1].jpg (310.1 KB, 5 views)

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post #25 of 26 Old 06-26-2020, 06:50 PM
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Had you bought one of these, you would indeed have a motorcycle that has an adjustable speedo.

However, there is no need to adjust it. It is right on the button as is.
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File Type: jpg IMG_1523.jpg (298.9 KB, 9 views)
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post #26 of 26 Old 06-27-2020, 06:16 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
Printed the speedometer image directly from my CAD program on a transparency and used that as a mask for etching on a photosensitive copper clad board normally used for printed circuit boards. It came out decent for a first try, just needs a more opaque mask. Nonetheless it's a good start!

Rob
That looks pretty good. I know very little about the process, but since there is a metallic surface now, seems like some kind of electrostatic/ionized plating could be done.

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