Injector Fault Codes - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 28 Old 05-21-2020, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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Injector Fault Codes

Changed my fuel pressure regulator and all of a sudden bike is bliping rpms at idle and almost dying. When applying throttle it hesitates to rev up then all of a sudden it revs super high and comes alive. Thought it might be the fuel filter so i changed it. Still running into the problem. So i pulled codes and i got an injector fault on cyl 1 2 3 4. Before i start plugging away with a multimeter has anyone run into this issue before?

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post #2 of 28 Old 05-21-2020, 06:19 PM
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I'd first go over the work you've just done.
Did you pull the rubber travel bung from the base of the new FPR before installing it?
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post #3 of 28 Old 05-21-2020, 06:23 PM Thread Starter
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The O-Ring on the bottom of the FPR is still there. I even swapped the old FPR back on to see if the new OEM regulator was the problem and it still didnt fix it. Im starting to wonder if the new FPR pulled more vacuum causing the debris in the old fuel filter to get pushed into the injectors causing them to be plugged? Wonder if that would cause them to throw a fault.

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post #4 of 28 Old 05-21-2020, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
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And yes i removed the rubber travel cap. I dont even think it would have sat flush on the fuel rail with the cap on it.

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post #5 of 28 Old 05-21-2020, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
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After i changed the FPR i went for a spin and it ran great. Best it has since i bought it. It didnt start having the issue until i went to start it and ride it the next day.

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post #6 of 28 Old 05-21-2020, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
I'd first go over the work you've just done.
EVERY DETAIL of the work..........

Not knowing how old the bike is, perhaps old vacuum lines are now at play.
As in OK before, but couldn't cope with the on/off and perhaps are now leaking.
Were the correct ports at 2 & 3 reconnected to? (just in case all lines were removed)

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post #7 of 28 Old 05-21-2020, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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Are u referring to the vacuum line that connects to the back of the FPR? If so yes i checked the line was fitted tight to the FPR and the t connector that the vacuum line leads to was snug all the way around. Like i said after i swapped the FPR and went for a spin it ran great. Best it ever has. It only started acting up after it sat for a little bit. And car wise a vacuum leak usually leads to a high idle if im not mistaken. But right now it seems to be struggling to idle at all and when giving throttle input it stutters and acts like it wants to die then all of a sudden catches up and revs to life.

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post #8 of 28 Old 05-21-2020, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lickemlow90 View Post
Are u referring to the vacuum line that connects to the back of the FPR? If so yes i checked the line was fitted tight to the FPR and the t connector that the vacuum line leads to was snug all the way around. Like i said after i swapped the FPR and went for a spin it ran great. Best it ever has. It only started acting up after it sat for a little bit. And car wise a vacuum leak usually leads to a high idle if im not mistaken. But right now it seems to be struggling to idle at all and when giving throttle input it stutters and acts like it wants to die then all of a sudden catches up and revs to life.
Yes I was referring to that junction of vacuum line/FPR.
This sure is a strange one!
I still have a sense that there's a chance that something could be amiss from the work or degradation of some part of the vacuum line network.
For example, the FPR is very near the MAP sensor and it's connector.
And for it have run beautifully for a bit, then suddenly not, and swapping the FPR and getting no change, is suggestive of something having happened during the work, and less probable is some totally unrelated thing having failed at the time.

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post #9 of 28 Old 05-22-2020, 04:02 AM Thread Starter
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Ill check the map sensor this evening. Strange to me that it threw every injector fault and ive yet to have this issue untill i swapped the fpr. Guess im just going to have to plug away with a multimeter on sensors and injectors.

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post #10 of 28 Old 05-22-2020, 06:12 AM
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Do you still have the old FPR? First thing to do when a new part causes problems is see if the old part has the same problems... then you know its something else and not the part.

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post #11 of 28 Old 05-22-2020, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
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Yep i swapped the old FPR back on right after the problem started. Problem still persisted. Im gonna grab some injector cleaner after work and run that in it just in case the new FPR pulled debris from the old fuel filter and got the injectors clogged up from the increased vacuum from the new FPR. When i swapped out the fuel filter it was so clogged up when i tried blowing through it i couldnt get any pressure through it at all. The new fuel filter was like blowing through nothing. The fuel pump is working just fine as well on every start cycle.

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post #12 of 28 Old 05-22-2020, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lickemlow90 View Post
And car wise a vacuum leak usually leads to a high idle if im not mistaken. But right now it seems to be struggling to idle at all and when giving throttle input it stutters and acts like it wants to die then all of a sudden catches up and revs to life.
Yes, a simple and pure atmospheric leak into the intake system will bump up idle.
I mean a leak that does not screw up a sensor or some kind of actuator, like an intake manifold gasket leak.

Past that, let's look at the engine instability you have described.
Then consider there are there elements involved, air delivery, fuel delivery, and ignition delivery.
It doesn't sound like ignition to me.
If there are no leaks in the entire vacuum lines network, then there there is no uncontrolled additional air delivery.
That leaves fuel delivery, plus what you describe also sounds as though it could be fuel delivery related.

BUT if it is fuel delivery related to physical contaminants getting to the injectors, I am extremely doubtful that any cleaner will help.
The injectors have extremely small discharge openings, so "chunks" can't pass and/or will get wedged at a seat.
Chunks will not be soluble in the cleaner, and be too big to pass on the basis of detergency.
Also, the FPR stabilizes the fuel pressure, so if the FPR is getting erratic or inadequate vacuum, it will screw up the stability of the fuel delivery to the injectors.
Electrical is not at all my forte, but I see that the FSM gives resistance, ground fault check and voltage supply checks to be done.

Short story:
A
The original FPR worked.
The replacement FPR worked well.
This suggests that the FPRs in isolation are not the problem.
Therefore, what energizes the FPR might be involved, as in vacuum.
B
You suspect fuel tank contaminants may have gotten into the fuel system.
Perhaps the injection ports and/or seats are contaminated.
C
All 4 injectors are displaying a code, and the same code.
This would suggest a common electrical issue before the injectors.
OR maybe the ECU is smart enough to sense that the injectors can't full cycle because of physical contaminants preventing so.

Hopefully the above is of at least some help to you.

All in all, very frustrating for what is supposed to be an easy task of putting on a new FPR.
It will get figured out though, right?

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post #13 of 28 Old 05-22-2020, 03:31 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the layout man. Ive just been plugging away with what i can. Pulled the brand new plugs and they are covered in carbon. So its running rich for sure. Im gonna test the MAP sensor. Then swap the tune back to factory. Then after that if i cant figure it out im probably just gonna take it to a dealer. Its a 2002 and wiring is definitely not my forte. Dont wanna go down the rabbit hole and screw something up worse.

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post #14 of 28 Old 05-22-2020, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lickemlow90 View Post
Thanks for the layout man. Ive just been plugging away with what i can. Pulled the brand new plugs and they are covered in carbon. So its running rich for sure. Im gonna test the MAP sensor. Then swap the tune back to factory. Then after that if i cant figure it out im probably just gonna take it to a dealer. Its a 2002 and wiring is definitely not my forte. Dont wanna go down the rabbit hole and screw something up worse.
Did you by chance also just install a fueling device like a Power Commander, or just do a map change with what you already had?

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post #15 of 28 Old 05-22-2020, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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It does have a power commander. The map hasnt changed in 2 years. I thought maybe that could be it so im gonna swap the stock map back on and see if that fixes it.

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post #16 of 28 Old 05-22-2020, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
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It does have a power commander. The map hasnt changed in 2 years. I thought maybe that could be it so im gonna swap the stock map back on and see if that fixes it.
Seeing as the PC taps are nowhere near your recent work, I doubt it's at play.
If the PC is at play, a map change will not indicate so.
If you suspect the PC, disconnect it.
If you disconnected, or just reinstalled the battery, check the PC ground connection.

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post #17 of 28 Old 05-22-2020, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
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Will do. When i get another chance to work on it ill post any updates.

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post #18 of 28 Old 05-22-2020, 10:44 PM
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This is an odd problem.
If your plugs are showing a rich fuel condition then wouldn't that indicate your injectors are working?
You can listen to the injectors using a screwdriver. Each injector has a basket filter at its inlet.
Check all the connections under tank, sensors, injectors etc.
Make sure the vacuum hoses are fitted to the correct throttle body tubes. They differ for the MAP and FPR.
Check the ground under tank.
Check your headers are heating equally.
Check the coil connectors.
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post #19 of 28 Old 05-23-2020, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
This is an odd problem.
If your plugs are showing a rich fuel condition then wouldn't that indicate your injectors are working?
You can listen to the injectors using a screwdriver. Each injector has a basket filter at its inlet.
Check all the connections under tank, sensors, injectors etc.
Make sure the vacuum hoses are fitted to the correct throttle body tubes. They differ for the MAP and FPR.
Check the ground under tank.
Check your headers are heating equally.
Check the coil connectors.
Good points.
And that basket filter was news to me, and hopefully means no crap got to the seat and spray holes.
My thinking on potential rich causes was injectors fouled at the seats and continually feeding fuel to some degree.

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post #20 of 28 Old 05-23-2020, 06:42 AM
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Ahh. The injectors fouled open. Makes sense. I wonder then if they still tick when fouled like that.
The injectors fouling up would make sense when you consider the problem took a little while to appear after the filter change. Might be time to pull out the throttle bodies/air box.
I'll take a pic of the basket filter in a spare injector tomorrow.

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post #21 of 28 Old 05-23-2020, 04:41 PM
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Pic of injector inlet showing brass wire filter basket.
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post #22 of 28 Old 05-23-2020, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
Pic of injector inlet showing brass wire filter basket.
Are the baskets removeable for replacement or are they permanently molded into the injector body?
My guess is that the brass wire gauze passage size is very small.
Perhaps it matters not,. i.e., if Lickemlow90 pulls at least one out and does an inspection, there'll either be crap caught in the baskets, or there won't be.

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post #23 of 28 Old 05-23-2020, 06:07 PM
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The baskets are sort of removable. They are pressed in and have a plastic retainer rim. I have removed one before but you need to be careful not to damage.
I agree. If crap was sucked into the fuel rail then you would expect to see it in those baskets.
I have reverse cleaned these injectors before.
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post #24 of 28 Old 05-23-2020, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
The baskets are sort of removable. They are pressed in and have a plastic retainer rim. I have removed one before but you need to be careful not to damage.
I agree. If crap was sucked into the fuel rail then you would expect to see it in those baskets.
I have reverse cleaned these injectors before.
Would you please be so kind as to describe your method of reverse cleaning?
Does it include somehow energizing the injector?

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post #25 of 28 Old 05-23-2020, 08:28 PM
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I used a 12v bike battery to intermittently engergize injector. The injector was jammed into a syringe. The syringe was partially pressurized with an aerosol injector cleaner. The pic shows orientation of injector for reverse clean. Turn the injector around to do a forward clean. That is injector inlet jammed onto syringe. Go easy on the aerosol. If too much pressure builds up it will pop the injector out of syringe. Not fun. You quickly repetitively activate the injector while giving aerosol small brief squirts.
My bike had a rust fouled fuel system. The injector baskets had a brown crud in them. This method cleaned that crud out.
It's easy to see the injector flow come good.
IMO the best way to clean injectors, especially high milage ones with built up scale is to take them to a specialist with ultra sound gear.
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post #26 of 28 Old 05-24-2020, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
I used a 12v bike battery to intermittently engergize injector. The injector was jammed into a syringe. The syringe was partially pressurized with an aerosol injector cleaner. The pic shows orientation of injector for reverse clean. Turn the injector around to do a forward clean. That is injector inlet jammed onto syringe. Go easy on the aerosol. If too much pressure builds up it will pop the injector out of syringe. Not fun. You quickly repetitively activate the injector while giving aerosol small brief squirts.
My bike had a rust fouled fuel system. The injector baskets had a brown crud in them. This method cleaned that crud out.
It's easy to see the injector flow come good.
IMO the best way to clean injectors, especially high milage ones with built up scale is to take them to a specialist with ultra sound gear.
That is nothing short of brilliant.

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post #27 of 28 Old 05-24-2020, 08:07 AM
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When I got my bike it ran fine. But after stripping it down I found a lot of rust and corrosion in the fuel delivery system. Rusted tank, fuel pump covered in red shit, blocked fuel filter, fuel rail almost choked off, injector baskets full of crap.
Bike still ran. Amazing.
New tank, new fuel pump, filter and FPR. Cleaned out fuel rail and injectors.
These bikes can take a lot of abuse and neglect.
The bike had low mileage but had sat in some dickheads shed for around ten years with an empty tank. Condensation took its toll. Then the dickheads that repossessed the bike just fueled it up and ran it.
It needed a good clean when I got it.

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post #28 of 28 Old 05-24-2020, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandboy View Post
When I got my bike it ran fine. But after stripping it down I found a lot of rust and corrosion in the fuel delivery system. Rusted tank, fuel pump covered in red shit, blocked fuel filter, fuel rail almost choked off, injector baskets full of crap.
Bike still ran. Amazing.
New tank, new fuel pump, filter and FPR. Cleaned out fuel rail and injectors.
These bikes can take a lot of abuse and neglect.
The bike had low mileage but had sat in some dickheads shed for around ten years with an empty tank. Condensation took its toll. Then the dickheads that repossessed the bike just fueled it up and ran it.
It needed a good clean when I got it.
Hopefully you got said bike for a steal of a price.

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