I messed up on my brakes... need help - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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I messed up on my brakes... need help

I done messed up replacing my front brake pads... the right side went fine... but as soon as I applied pressure to remove the hexagonal bolt on the clutch side.... STRIPPED.... I have never replaced them myself.. and I suspect it may have already been mostly stripped. Does anyone have any suggestions... I fear I may have to get it drilled out... Is it easy to find a replacement bolt??

fearful....

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post #2 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 03:47 PM
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Helicoil? Not sure if that would be recommended for brakes though, but should be OK.

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post #3 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 03:47 PM
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did the bolt break? or is it free spinngin? If it's moving and not broken I would think you could caox it out. Getting something else back in is a different story. I'm going to guess that you are looking at having a keen sert or helicoil installed (I would remove the fork and take it to a machinist). Mr. Tharlson can probably tell you EXACTLY what you need to do, if you include a good description and picture.

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post #4 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bocomomark View Post
I'm going to guess that you are looking at having a keen sert or helicoil installed (I would remove the fork and take it to a machinist). Mr. Tharlson can probably tell you EXACTLY what you need to do, if you include a good description and picture.
+1! Rob..... Rob...... Rob.....

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post #5 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 03:51 PM Thread Starter
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The bolt never moved.... I stripped out the part where the hex key fits into it.. its now round I have already found the replacement part... 45215-ml7-922. Ron Ayers has it for $6.38. I guess I will have to drill out the old bolt though...

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post #6 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 03:52 PM
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no dont drill it. grind in a slot and you'll be able to use a flat headed screwdriver.

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post #7 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvster View Post
no dont drill it. grind in a slot and you'll be able to use a flat headed screwdriver.
+1, I'd start with this first, or maybe a pair of good vice grips before the slot.

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post #8 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
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no dont drill it. grind in a slot and you'll be able to use a flat headed screwdriver.
That's not an option because the bolt is 1/4 inch inside the brake housing... Unless you know of some tool I am not aware of...

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post #9 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 03:57 PM
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no dont drill it. grind in a slot and you'll be able to use a flat headed screwdriver.
If it's the bolt I'm thinking of he won't be able to grind it (the pin type bolt that goes through the brake pads hidden under the little cap on your calliper) hard one maybe try to grab it with vice grips on the other side?

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post #10 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 04:01 PM
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If it's the bolt I'm thinking of he won't be able to grind it (the pin type bolt that goes through the brake pads hidden under the little cap on your calliper) hard one maybe try to grab it with vice grips on the other side?
also may help to remove the calliper from the bike so the disc isn't in the way more room to grab it with vice grips

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post #11 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
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That's not an option because the bolt is 1/4 inch inside the brake housing... Unless you know of some tool I am not aware of...
dremel works well with a small cut bit. very common and can pick up something cheap from harbor freight.

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post #12 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
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post #13 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 04:05 PM
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As a last resort, if you have some JB weld and an allen wrench that's close to the right size (that you are willing to sacrifice), you can fill the hole in the top of the screw with some JB (not too much), push the allen wrench in, and let it sit over night. Then *carefully* try to back the bolt out in the morning.

You have about a 50/50 shot of the JB weld holding on tight enough.

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post #14 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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As a last resort, if you have some JB weld and an allen wrench that's close to the right size (that you are willing to sacrifice), you can fill the in the top of the screw with some JB (not too much), push the allen wrench in, and let it sit over night. Then *carefully* try to back the bolt out in the morning.

You have about a 50/50 shot of the JB weld holding on tight enough.
Interesting... I already layed the bike down and tried to drip some solder on it... but no luck... the solder won't adhere to both metals...it just spins..

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post #15 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 04:08 PM
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get a Dremel Tungsten Carbide Bit size 9902 or something similar, grind out 1 corner, then grind out the opposite corner. you should have enough space to place an exact fit screwdriver and turn the bolt head that way. your other option is as 2002-919 mentioned.

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post #16 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
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At this point I just need to get the old one out... I know I can still ride till it gets here... I just need the cleanest way of getting the old one out without damaging anything else

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post #17 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 04:12 PM
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I would try to fit next size metric or SAE head into it (which ever can fit tighter) and using the impact gun vibrate the crap out of it.

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post #18 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 04:16 PM
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post #19 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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That link isn't working right...

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post #20 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 04:21 PM
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Get a set like these!!! They are worth MORE than their wieght in gold.
Screw or Bolt Extractor - How to Remove a Broken Screw

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post #21 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 04:22 PM
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post #22 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 04:24 PM
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Can't use an EZ out? EASYOUTS, EASY-OUTS, EZ OUT, EZY-OUT, Bolt Extractor, Screw Extractor

It's time to take the caliper off the bike - you laid the bike down to work on it?

Get some silicone spray, WD-40, rust free, or some other solution to help break the bond. Your old pads are being replaced anyway, so no worries of getting solution on them.

As a last resort, you can drill through the bit, VERY careful not to hit the threads, then cut the bolt after that first bit. Then pull the rest of the threaded material out. Tough work though, might be easier to just buy a used caliper.

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post #23 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 04:32 PM
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get a slightly larger torx bit and hammer it in until it bottoms out...then use an impact driver to break the bolt loose.

Well, fire the engines! Spur this iron space-pony on!

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post #24 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 04:33 PM
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^^ NO^^
I fix military grade shit for a living! Use the extractors!

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post #25 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 04:39 PM
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This is not salvage work to use a heavy hand on.
The part only needs a couple of ft lbs of torque and the threads are fine.
Do not go wild with an impact gun or impact hammer.
# 1 is getting some penetrating oil working for you.
Real penetrating oil, that is, not thinner, not engine oil, not WD 40.
(In a jam, a 50/50 mix of ATF and Acetone is very effective)
Try to introduce it from both sides, which you should be able to do.
Let it sit.
I would try zaq's idea of next size up key, but if you do that, file the end square so you get maximum contact.
I've also use brass shim stock to take up gap in rounded hex key fasteners, 0.003 works well. Cut a strip, coil it, partially insert it but leave it a bit proud, then tap in the hex key. A few tries is common, and the key needs to be a light hammer in fit for this method to work.
Some dork may have loctited it too !
If they used killer red, it is fused and only heat will help.
A small propane torch could be tried.
The later gold calipers actually came with slotted heads, a further indication of how little in/out force should be needed.
Drilling out is not the ticket, as the hole size is dictated by the smaller diameter pin extension. Same problem if you want to drill and use an easy-out.
Soak, then try again.

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post #26 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 04:51 PM
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Like said already,Some good penetrating oil first.I'd try the easy out if I had a good drill and a steady hand.My next choice a scratch awl or a pointed chisel.Useing very light taps drive the bolt around,This is tricky as you can very quickly eat into threads of the housing itself.

And maybe a little heat.

above all else take your time,don't use anymore force than you have to a hard hit is not going to help as much as a well placed one,and could make it worse really fast...


Good luck

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post #27 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
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get a slightly larger torx bit and hammer it in until it bottoms out.
This is what I would do. Over size torx with a touch of yellow lock tite. Then add some heat and back it out nice and easy.

Easy-outs are great when they work, when they go wrong you are stuck with a hardened steal bit snapped off in the center of your previously fucked fastner. Ever try to drill into a snapped off easy out, tap or drill bit.....it's not pretty.

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post #28 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 05:18 PM
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Fortunately you're having trouble with the rear brake, specifically the pad retention pin. Normally the only reason I use the rear brake is to control power delivery exiting turns, and I haven't had to do that on the street for a very long time, so it's not really all that essential. Nonetheless, having a functioning brake back there is a good thing, so here goes.

Obviously, the first thing you'll need is a replacement pin. Once you have that, try the following.

Remove the caliper assembly. Trust me, it does make things easier.

A word about easy outs or forcing a tool into the ex allen socket: this can swage the threaded portion of the pin out, thoroughly jamming it in the caliper.

Now that that's out of the way, here goes.

First inspect the exopsed threads in the caliper -- if there is evidence of corrosion put the calper on a surface with the pin bore pointing straight up and fill the hole with Coca Cola. Within 24 hours it will eliminate all corrosion, even between the threads, and you can try to turn the pin with vice grips.

If there is no corrosion press on with option #2.

Push the inner pad as far toward the outer as possible, and swat the inner end of the pin with a good sized hammer just once while holding it in your well padded hand (trying to move the pin toward the outside of the caliper), then grab the pin with a pair of vice grips and see if it will turn. If this works (about 1/2 the time) you're good to go. If not try it one more time. If you overdo it the end of the pin can mushroom out enough to prevent extraction. Why does this work? The pin has a seating surface which bears against a corresponding surface in the caliper. If the pin was overtightened it can form adhesions that will prevent it turning. Hitting it can break the adhesions and allow removal.

Those are the methods I use, and they usually work.

Rob

P.S. Since I bought my '02 I havent even looked at the rear brake, well except for flushing out the fluid, and upon reading your post went out to see if I would have to put my extraction methods to use. Fortunately the pin broke free without drama. Whew.

If it has already been done, it is safe to assume it is possible to do it.
On the other hand, if it has not been done never assume it is impossible to do it.
------- Rob --------
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post #29 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
Fortunately you're having trouble with the rear brake, specifically the pad retention pin. Normally the only reason I use the rear brake is to control power delivery exiting turns, and I haven't had to do that on the street for a very long time, so it's not really all that essential. Nonetheless, having a functioning brake back there is a good thing, so here goes.

Obviously, the first thing you'll need is a replacement pin. Once you have that, try the following.

Remove the caliper assembly. Trust me, it does make things easier.

A word about easy outs or forcing a tool into the ex allen socket: this can swage the threaded portion of the pin out, thoroughly jamming it in the caliper.

Now that that's out of the way, here goes.

First inspect the exopsed threads in the caliper -- if there is evidence of corrosion put the calper on a surface with the pin bore pointing straight up and fill the hole with Coca Cola. Within 24 hours it will eliminate all corrosion, even between the threads, and you can try to turn the pin with vice grips.

If there is no corrosion press on with option #2.

Push the inner pad as far toward the outer as possible, and swat the inner end of the pin with a good sized hammer just once while holding it in your well padded hand (trying to move the pin toward the outside of the caliper), then grab the pin with a pair of vice grips and see if it will turn. If this works (about 1/2 the time) you're good to go. If not try it one more time. If you overdo it the end of the pin can mushroom out enough to prevent extraction. Why does this work? The pin has a seating surface which bears against a corresponding surface in the caliper. If the pin was overtightened it can form adhesions that will prevent it turning. Hitting it can break the adhesions and allow removal.

Those are the methods I use, and they usually work.

Rob

P.S. Since I bought my '02 I havent even looked at the rear brake, well except for flushing out the fluid, and upon reading your post went out to see if I would have to put my extraction methods to use. Fortunately the pin broke free without drama. Whew.
Superlative work order.
Great tips within as well re other situations.
Especially trying to unseat the end face by smacking the exposed pin end.
Hats off !

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post #30 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
Fortunately you're having trouble with the rear brake, specifically the pad retention pin. Normally the only reason I use the rear brake is to control power delivery exiting turns, and I haven't had to do that on the street for a very long time, so it's not really all that essential. Nonetheless, having a functioning brake back there is a good thing, so here goes.

Obviously, the first thing you'll need is a replacement pin. Once you have that, try the following.

Remove the caliper assembly. Trust me, it does make things easier.

A word about easy outs or forcing a tool into the ex allen socket: this can swage the threaded portion of the pin out, thoroughly jamming it in the caliper.

Now that that's out of the way, here goes.

First inspect the exopsed threads in the caliper -- if there is evidence of corrosion put the calper on a surface with the pin bore pointing straight up and fill the hole with Coca Cola. Within 24 hours it will eliminate all corrosion, even between the threads, and you can try to turn the pin with vice grips.

If there is no corrosion press on with option #2.

Push the inner pad as far toward the outer as possible, and swat the inner end of the pin with a good sized hammer just once while holding it in your well padded hand (trying to move the pin toward the outside of the caliper), then grab the pin with a pair of vice grips and see if it will turn. If this works (about 1/2 the time) you're good to go. If not try it one more time. If you overdo it the end of the pin can mushroom out enough to prevent extraction. Why does this work? The pin has a seating surface which bears against a corresponding surface in the caliper. If the pin was overtightened it can form adhesions that will prevent it turning. Hitting it can break the adhesions and allow removal.

Those are the methods I use, and they usually work.

Rob

P.S. Since I bought my '02 I havent even looked at the rear brake, well except for flushing out the fluid, and upon reading your post went out to see if I would have to put my extraction methods to use. Fortunately the pin broke free without drama. Whew.
It is the front left or clutch side caliper that was stripped. However I think the advice will apply just as well as for the rear...

Rob... you are the MAN!

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post #31 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 06:45 PM
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"Easy-outs are great when they work, when they go wrong you are stuck with a hardened steal bit snapped off in the center of your previously fucked fastner. Ever try to drill into a snapped off easy out, tap or drill bit.....it's not pretty."

He speaks the truth! I had this happen over 20 years ago (actually my dad did it to my first bike) and ever since I'm very hesitant to use an easy out, and very careful when I do.

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post #32 of 53 Old 05-01-2012, 09:14 PM
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I did not read all the posts but what I usually do is use a Torx bit on
a socket and hammer it in the stripped Allen hole.
Works every time.

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post #33 of 53 Old 05-02-2012, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
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I did not read all the posts but what I usually do is use a Torx bit on
a socket and hammer it in the stripped Allen hole.
Works every time.
I have stored this one in my memory bank.

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post #34 of 53 Old 05-11-2012, 09:43 AM Thread Starter
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WOW... that was a giant pain in the a$$... I brought the 9'r over to a good freind of mine to work on removing the bolt. After several different types of extractors and even more drilling out of the original bolt we finally got it done. It took us 3 and a quarter hours of tedious work. We eventually drilled it out sooo close to the threads that it finally gave way and voila!!
I will post pics of what was remaing of the original bolt on sunday. In our celebration we are having a 40lb crawfish boil at his house tommorrow night!!
Well, not really... we were gonna do that anyway!

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post #35 of 53 Old 05-11-2012, 09:55 AM
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jeeeez dude, what a headache, glad you got it out though!

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post #36 of 53 Old 05-11-2012, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
As a last resort, you can drill through the bit, VERY careful not to hit the threads, then cut the bolt after that first bit. Then pull the rest of the threaded material out. Tough work though, might be easier to just buy a used caliper.




Glad you got it out of there! (Cue remark from MM or PVster).

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post #37 of 53 Old 05-11-2012, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
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dang it... what is the type of brake fluid... dot 3 or 4????

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post #38 of 53 Old 05-11-2012, 10:26 AM
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dang it... what is the type of brake fluid... dot 3 or 4????
Dot 4

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post #39 of 53 Old 05-11-2012, 10:29 AM Thread Starter
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kewl... will a synthetic dot 3 or 4 work as well??

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post #40 of 53 Old 05-11-2012, 10:31 AM
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kewl... will a synthetic dot 3 or 4 work as well??
I use one (Valvoline) that says DOT 3 or 4.


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