Horn help... - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 39 Old 04-02-2010, 06:02 PM Thread Starter
Milites Gregarius
 
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Horn help...

My horn is not working after the winter. Unless a kid hit it I don't know what happened.

Should I just buy a new horn? If so what kind do you all recommend?

All the other electronics work good...

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post #2 of 39 Old 04-02-2010, 06:20 PM
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stock or aftermarket horn? check the wiring. its a simple 2 wire connection for the stock horn. ensure that they are connected securely.

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post #3 of 39 Old 04-02-2010, 06:26 PM
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The horn wires are very small gauge and pretty wimpy in most respects...they break pretty easy.

Well, fire the engines! Spur this iron space-pony on!

"The Shadow"
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post #4 of 39 Old 04-02-2010, 06:47 PM Thread Starter
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My bike is completely sock (bought it new last summer).

I would like a better horn anyways, with a better mounting location.

The wires seem to be on the horn... if they broke somewhere else I'm not sure how to figure it out.
*edit* as soon as i removed the clip from the horn the wire came completely out...

So what are some good horns?

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post #5 of 39 Old 04-02-2010, 07:41 PM
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problem isnt in the horn itself, its in the wiring. either way, you'll have to fix it. you could always get a stebel horn. plenty loud and works great. just kinda big and bulky...

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post #6 of 39 Old 04-02-2010, 10:21 PM
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That Dude with his tongue stuck out could probably tell you what happened!
I put duel Fiames on mine, it turns heads quite well!

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post #7 of 39 Old 04-03-2010, 02:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brokerecord View Post
That Dude with his tongue stuck out could probably tell you what happened!
I put duel Fiames on mine, it turns heads quite well!
Yeah, probably... lol.

How did you install the dual (I assume Fiamm high and low note) on your bike?

And Did you install a relay?

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post #8 of 39 Old 04-03-2010, 05:25 AM
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+1on the stebel, extremely loud!

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post #9 of 39 Old 04-03-2010, 10:17 AM
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Re: How

I just tied into existing wires for the original horn, no relay, I've had them over a year and never a problem. Yes mix the hi-lo horns. I mounted mine under the head light, by bolting the ground brackets to the lower triple bolts.

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post #10 of 39 Old 04-03-2010, 10:36 AM
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+1,000,000 Stebel!
Mine has quickly awakened many catatonic cagers that would have otherwise cleaned me out.

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post #11 of 39 Old 04-03-2010, 12:14 PM
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Stebel is an easy install. unhook ur wires to ur stock horn, plug them into the relay (comes with the horn), run a new wire from the battery to the horn with the included inline fuse, run a new wire from the relay to the horn positive, run a new wire from a ground anywhere on the bike to the horn negative and you're done.

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post #12 of 39 Old 04-03-2010, 11:49 PM Thread Starter
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Apparently you Stebel owners are lucky. According to the only horn review I could fine the Stebel are very unreliable. Motorcycle Horn Comparison Review - webBikeWorld

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post #13 of 39 Old 04-04-2010, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pianopraze View Post
Apparently you Stebel owners are lucky. According to the only horn review I could fine the Stebel are very unreliable. Motorcycle Horn Comparison Review - webBikeWorld
I used a Piaa dual horn setup for precisely that reason, the Stebels can have problems. Just bent my original horn bracket and bolted them both to it, then spliced the wire to go to both horns...scares the crap out of alot of cagers...

Amazon.com: PIAA 85112 115db 500HZ + 600HZ Sports Horn: Automotive

And a sound clip...stupid video, but you can hear 'em

YouTube - loud horns horn PIAA high tone hi

They have 2 different tone options, and these puppies do 115db with no relay, which is about equal to the stebel...these look better than the Stebel IMO.

Gets the job done for me...





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When Sold:
2004 Honda 919 Silver and Black w/red accents
599 Headlight
Koso Gauges DB-02r
GiPro gear indicator
Buell M2 shield - plasti dip black
Givi Crash bars
Dynojet PCIII, Custom Akrapovic map
Akrapovic GSXR 750 Exhaust, Shorty Carbon fiber Low mount
Custom weld job on OEM header, to enable use of center stand and GSXR exhaust
VFR front fender, re-shaped and CF wrapped
Seargent seat w/ gel insert
Custom LED Rear lights w/ Vizi-tech flasher
Competition Works Fender Eliminator, modified
Front 3-way LED Turn Signals flushmount via cbr1000r
6-Spoke wheel conversion ( 900rr-rear / F3-front ) Powdercoated white, Plasti-dipped black
Michelin Pilot Road 3 - New @ 19940 8/10/11 190/55r17 rear
Dyna Beads for tire balancing
17t / 44t Sprockets, 520 conversion from LDH
New All-balls bearings thru-out 6/2012
Piaa horns 400 & 500 hertz
Ohlins rear shock from an F3, Re-Valved/Sprung- By Pro Pilot Suspension
F4i Forks, custom sprung/sealed/valved, Plasti-dipped Black
ASV shorty clutch and front brake levers - Black W/Red Adj.
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SW-Motech center stand
Custom Handle Bars with Grip Heaters and OEM hidden switch, Hi/Lo heat
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post #14 of 39 Old 04-04-2010, 12:15 AM
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Here's some pics...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Phone library 070.jpg (53.9 KB, 48 views)
File Type: jpg Phone library 071.jpg (48.7 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg Phone library 072.jpg (57.7 KB, 45 views)





Pics: https://www.wristtwisters.com/album.php?albumid=176

Build List in Spoiler
Spoiler:


SOLD SOLD SOLD

When Sold:
2004 Honda 919 Silver and Black w/red accents
599 Headlight
Koso Gauges DB-02r
GiPro gear indicator
Buell M2 shield - plasti dip black
Givi Crash bars
Dynojet PCIII, Custom Akrapovic map
Akrapovic GSXR 750 Exhaust, Shorty Carbon fiber Low mount
Custom weld job on OEM header, to enable use of center stand and GSXR exhaust
VFR front fender, re-shaped and CF wrapped
Seargent seat w/ gel insert
Custom LED Rear lights w/ Vizi-tech flasher
Competition Works Fender Eliminator, modified
Front 3-way LED Turn Signals flushmount via cbr1000r
6-Spoke wheel conversion ( 900rr-rear / F3-front ) Powdercoated white, Plasti-dipped black
Michelin Pilot Road 3 - New @ 19940 8/10/11 190/55r17 rear
Dyna Beads for tire balancing
17t / 44t Sprockets, 520 conversion from LDH
New All-balls bearings thru-out 6/2012
Piaa horns 400 & 500 hertz
Ohlins rear shock from an F3, Re-Valved/Sprung- By Pro Pilot Suspension
F4i Forks, custom sprung/sealed/valved, Plasti-dipped Black
ASV shorty clutch and front brake levers - Black W/Red Adj.
Tech-Spec custom tank Pads
Napoleon bar end mirrors
SW-Motech center stand
Custom Handle Bars with Grip Heaters and OEM hidden switch, Hi/Lo heat
FuzeBlocks FZ-1 Power Distribution
Shorai Battery
F2P garage door opener wired to brake switch
Hydraulic rear brake switch
RC51 front brakes SP1, with 10 button rotors
Buell Ulysses Dropped Foot Peg conversion
Powdercoated: 22+ parts
etc, etc,
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post #15 of 39 Old 04-04-2010, 12:47 AM Thread Starter
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How do you get to the oil filter?

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post #16 of 39 Old 04-04-2010, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pianopraze View Post
How do you get to the oil filter?
LOL, yeah the pics do make it look like a close call, but it really isn't at all. The Pics are very deceiving...

You do still have access from the other side, and I suppose if your hands are actually bigger than mine, it's all of one bolt to unbolt the horns and swing them to the side...

I have had absolutely no issues with heat from the headers or otherwise, no issues with oil changes, no probs from rain or puddles....NADA...and they've been on there for about 2 years of all kinda weather riding, about 10,000 miles worth.

2yrs and they still scare the shizzle outa sleepy drivers...

P.S. How do ya like that billet oil filter...surgical stainless steel filtering media...cleanable...never wears out...0.003+ microns filtering...$120





Pics: https://www.wristtwisters.com/album.php?albumid=176

Build List in Spoiler
Spoiler:


SOLD SOLD SOLD

When Sold:
2004 Honda 919 Silver and Black w/red accents
599 Headlight
Koso Gauges DB-02r
GiPro gear indicator
Buell M2 shield - plasti dip black
Givi Crash bars
Dynojet PCIII, Custom Akrapovic map
Akrapovic GSXR 750 Exhaust, Shorty Carbon fiber Low mount
Custom weld job on OEM header, to enable use of center stand and GSXR exhaust
VFR front fender, re-shaped and CF wrapped
Seargent seat w/ gel insert
Custom LED Rear lights w/ Vizi-tech flasher
Competition Works Fender Eliminator, modified
Front 3-way LED Turn Signals flushmount via cbr1000r
6-Spoke wheel conversion ( 900rr-rear / F3-front ) Powdercoated white, Plasti-dipped black
Michelin Pilot Road 3 - New @ 19940 8/10/11 190/55r17 rear
Dyna Beads for tire balancing
17t / 44t Sprockets, 520 conversion from LDH
New All-balls bearings thru-out 6/2012
Piaa horns 400 & 500 hertz
Ohlins rear shock from an F3, Re-Valved/Sprung- By Pro Pilot Suspension
F4i Forks, custom sprung/sealed/valved, Plasti-dipped Black
ASV shorty clutch and front brake levers - Black W/Red Adj.
Tech-Spec custom tank Pads
Napoleon bar end mirrors
SW-Motech center stand
Custom Handle Bars with Grip Heaters and OEM hidden switch, Hi/Lo heat
FuzeBlocks FZ-1 Power Distribution
Shorai Battery
F2P garage door opener wired to brake switch
Hydraulic rear brake switch
RC51 front brakes SP1, with 10 button rotors
Buell Ulysses Dropped Foot Peg conversion
Powdercoated: 22+ parts
etc, etc,
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post #17 of 39 Old 04-04-2010, 02:01 AM Thread Starter
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Never heard of an oil filter than never wears out. 120$, wow. 120$/3$ (walmart supertech) = 40 filters. 2 filters a year that would be about 20 years worth of filters...

120$/6$ (autozone) = 20 filters... 3 changes a year = 6.6 years.

So between 6 and 20 years worth of filters...

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post #18 of 39 Old 04-04-2010, 02:18 AM Thread Starter
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I am constantly amazed by the ingenuity of the members on here in making your own brackets and modding your bikes. I'm scared I'll mess everything up

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post #19 of 39 Old 04-04-2010, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pianopraze View Post
Apparently you Stebel owners are lucky. According to the only horn review I could fine the Stebel are very unreliable. Motorcycle Horn Comparison Review - webBikeWorld
Mine has been going strong for two years. So they get one bad one and they BBQ the life saving product...

My last use was on four biz men in a German sedan returning after lunch that didn't look before merging two lanes. Their driver was bright red from embarrassment.

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post #20 of 39 Old 04-04-2010, 09:18 AM
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Actually they got two bad ones from two different suppliers, over a period of months. They should have contacted the manufacturer for replacement horns, then mentioned it in the article that two of the three stebels were bad right off the bat, instead of just giving us anecdotal evidence of other people have had similar problems.

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post #21 of 39 Old 04-04-2010, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamjayp View Post
Actually they got two bad ones from two different suppliers, over a period of months. They should have contacted the manufacturer for replacement horns, then mentioned it in the article that two of the three stebels were bad right off the bat, instead of just giving us anecdotal evidence of other people have had similar problems.
+1, Yes that would have been reviewer diligence and then the MFG could have recalled the infant mortality. Granted stebel's plastic case and lousy mounting point should be improved.

I ran a larger gauge relay wire to handle the ~17A and also kept the stocker (duck in heat) for an attention commander! There isn't a better $50 you can spend to save your bacon. I gave my cousin the MC survival kit: stebel and a kissantech headlight modulator.

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post #22 of 39 Old 04-04-2010, 09:51 AM
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RE:

Horns are like oil and tires! I use the best, no you don't I use these and they are better!
Just get what you can find near home at a decent price and have at it! LOL

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post #23 of 39 Old 04-04-2010, 01:34 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pianopraze View Post
Never heard of an oil filter than never wears out. 120$, wow. 120$/3$ (walmart supertech) = 40 filters. 2 filters a year that would be about 20 years worth of filters...

120$/6$ (autozone) = 20 filters... 3 changes a year = 6.6 years.

So between 6 and 20 years worth of filters...
... never having to change your filter again... priceless bragging rights?

lol sorry I didn't finish the thought.

I would be scared personally that it would go bad.

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post #24 of 39 Old 04-04-2010, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamjayp View Post
Actually they got two bad ones from two different suppliers, over a period of months. They should have contacted the manufacturer for replacement horns, then mentioned it in the article that two of the three stebels were bad right off the bat, instead of just giving us anecdotal evidence of other people have had similar problems.
agreed.

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post #25 of 39 Old 04-04-2010, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pianopraze View Post
... never having to change your filter again... priceless bragging rights?

lol sorry I didn't finish the thought.

I would be scared personally that it would go bad.
I thought about explaining the differences in filtering media and how/when by-pass valves in your filter work, but....naw, if one bolt and splicing 2 wires to your horns is scary for ya...

Good luck with your horns





Pics: https://www.wristtwisters.com/album.php?albumid=176

Build List in Spoiler
Spoiler:


SOLD SOLD SOLD

When Sold:
2004 Honda 919 Silver and Black w/red accents
599 Headlight
Koso Gauges DB-02r
GiPro gear indicator
Buell M2 shield - plasti dip black
Givi Crash bars
Dynojet PCIII, Custom Akrapovic map
Akrapovic GSXR 750 Exhaust, Shorty Carbon fiber Low mount
Custom weld job on OEM header, to enable use of center stand and GSXR exhaust
VFR front fender, re-shaped and CF wrapped
Seargent seat w/ gel insert
Custom LED Rear lights w/ Vizi-tech flasher
Competition Works Fender Eliminator, modified
Front 3-way LED Turn Signals flushmount via cbr1000r
6-Spoke wheel conversion ( 900rr-rear / F3-front ) Powdercoated white, Plasti-dipped black
Michelin Pilot Road 3 - New @ 19940 8/10/11 190/55r17 rear
Dyna Beads for tire balancing
17t / 44t Sprockets, 520 conversion from LDH
New All-balls bearings thru-out 6/2012
Piaa horns 400 & 500 hertz
Ohlins rear shock from an F3, Re-Valved/Sprung- By Pro Pilot Suspension
F4i Forks, custom sprung/sealed/valved, Plasti-dipped Black
ASV shorty clutch and front brake levers - Black W/Red Adj.
Tech-Spec custom tank Pads
Napoleon bar end mirrors
SW-Motech center stand
Custom Handle Bars with Grip Heaters and OEM hidden switch, Hi/Lo heat
FuzeBlocks FZ-1 Power Distribution
Shorai Battery
F2P garage door opener wired to brake switch
Hydraulic rear brake switch
RC51 front brakes SP1, with 10 button rotors
Buell Ulysses Dropped Foot Peg conversion
Powdercoated: 22+ parts
etc, etc,
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post #26 of 39 Old 04-04-2010, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mntnceguy View Post
I thought about explaining the differences in filtering media and how/when by-pass valves in your filter work, but....naw, if one bolt and splicing 2 wires to your horns is scary for ya...

Good luck with your horns




um... yeah. lol

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post #27 of 39 Old 04-05-2010, 12:09 PM
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I have yet to mount a pair of PIAA sport horns that are sitting on my workbench. I did wire one up for a test and damn it's loud. Debating whether to mount them like Brokerecord under the headlight or mntnceguy.

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post #28 of 39 Old 04-05-2010, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyCatcher View Post
I have yet to mount a pair of PIAA sport horns that are sitting on my workbench. I did wire one up for a test and damn it's loud. Debating whether to mount them like Brokerecord under the headlight or mntnceguy.
If i were as mechanically handy as half you guys I would mount them up front.

The stock location makes no since to me...

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post #29 of 39 Old 04-13-2010, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mntnceguy View Post
I used a Piaa dual horn setup for precisely that reason, the Stebels can have problems. Just bent my original horn bracket and bolted them both to it, then spliced the wire to go to both horns...scares the crap out of alot of cagers...

Amazon.com: PIAA 85112 115db 500HZ + 600HZ Sports Horn: Automotive

And a sound clip...stupid video, but you can hear 'em

YouTube - loud horns horn PIAA high tone hi

They have 2 different tone options, and these puppies do 115db with no relay, which is about equal to the stebel...these look better than the Stebel IMO.

Gets the job done for me...
I ordered a set of the PIAA Sport Horns last night

Just to clarify, there seem to be two different sets available:
500HZ / 600HZ and 400HZ / 500HZ

Last night I was looking at a couple of pics I took of your horns, looks like you have the 400/500... which is what I ordered.

I'm guessing the 400/500 is gonna be a lower tone than 500/600? I hope, anyways.

Abba Zaba, you my only friend.
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post #30 of 39 Old 04-13-2010, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pianopraze View Post
If i were as mechanically handy as half you guys I would mount them up front.

The stock location makes no since to me...
I did next to HL, Very effective!!! Although I prefer to put it on a four foot pole out in front!

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post #31 of 39 Old 04-13-2010, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omaha_919 View Post
I ordered a set of the PIAA Sport Horns last night

Just to clarify, there seem to be two different sets available:
500HZ / 600HZ and 400HZ / 500HZ

Last night I was looking at a couple of pics I took of your horns, looks like you have the 400/500... which is what I ordered.

I'm guessing the 400/500 is gonna be a lower tone than 500/600? I hope, anyways.
Yup, 400-500 is what I have, and it is the lower pitched tone of the two. There a quite a few you-tube vids for both toned horns if your curious...my personal preference was the lower tone. They sound like a freight train, and I love the confused looks of people as I go by, they look around expecting a Semi-truck and instead see 'lil 'ol me...

I too was originally planning on mounting these behind the triple, but wasn't sure if I was gonna like them or not, so I just "temporarily" mounted them in the stock location...that was like 2 yrs ago...guess I caught a lazy bug and just left them where they are...they work GREAT and honestly I just never found a reason to move them. I always thought that heat from the headers, or dirt/water from the road would cause problems and I'd move them then...but still no issues what-so-ever...





Pics: https://www.wristtwisters.com/album.php?albumid=176

Build List in Spoiler
Spoiler:


SOLD SOLD SOLD

When Sold:
2004 Honda 919 Silver and Black w/red accents
599 Headlight
Koso Gauges DB-02r
GiPro gear indicator
Buell M2 shield - plasti dip black
Givi Crash bars
Dynojet PCIII, Custom Akrapovic map
Akrapovic GSXR 750 Exhaust, Shorty Carbon fiber Low mount
Custom weld job on OEM header, to enable use of center stand and GSXR exhaust
VFR front fender, re-shaped and CF wrapped
Seargent seat w/ gel insert
Custom LED Rear lights w/ Vizi-tech flasher
Competition Works Fender Eliminator, modified
Front 3-way LED Turn Signals flushmount via cbr1000r
6-Spoke wheel conversion ( 900rr-rear / F3-front ) Powdercoated white, Plasti-dipped black
Michelin Pilot Road 3 - New @ 19940 8/10/11 190/55r17 rear
Dyna Beads for tire balancing
17t / 44t Sprockets, 520 conversion from LDH
New All-balls bearings thru-out 6/2012
Piaa horns 400 & 500 hertz
Ohlins rear shock from an F3, Re-Valved/Sprung- By Pro Pilot Suspension
F4i Forks, custom sprung/sealed/valved, Plasti-dipped Black
ASV shorty clutch and front brake levers - Black W/Red Adj.
Tech-Spec custom tank Pads
Napoleon bar end mirrors
SW-Motech center stand
Custom Handle Bars with Grip Heaters and OEM hidden switch, Hi/Lo heat
FuzeBlocks FZ-1 Power Distribution
Shorai Battery
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post #32 of 39 Old 05-19-2014, 10:06 AM
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Yup, 400-500 is what I have, and it is the lower pitched tone of the two. There a quite a few you-tube vids for both toned horns if your curious...my personal preference was the lower tone. They sound like a freight train, and I love the confused looks of people as I go by, they look around expecting a Semi-truck and instead see 'lil 'ol me...

I too was originally planning on mounting these behind the triple, but wasn't sure if I was gonna like them or not, so I just "temporarily" mounted them in the stock location...that was like 2 yrs ago...guess I caught a lazy bug and just left them where they are...they work GREAT and honestly I just never found a reason to move them. I always thought that heat from the headers, or dirt/water from the road would cause problems and I'd move them then...but still no issues what-so-ever...
Sorry to bump an old thread, but I'm considering these horns. Does anyone know if they'll work safely just as a bolt on with stock wiring, or will I have to add an inline fuse or relay if I want to run both horns together? Maybe I can just increase the fuse or relay size in the factory location, wherever it is. I haven't looked into it that far just yet. I love the tone of this in the youtube videos.

03 Honda 919 - Custom Blue Metallic - Sato Racing Pipes - Power Commander - Sargent Seat - Rizoma Mirrors & Levers - Progrips - Renthal Bars - Powder Coated Rims/Pipes - Clear Alternatives Tail - LED Blinkers
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post #33 of 39 Old 05-19-2014, 09:05 PM
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NYC - LOL - you do need something loud!
I bought the 500/600Hz pair and like the effect.
I'm sure you can find a lot about the power required but, IIRC, one of the PIAA horns was very similar to the OEM horn for power requirement. Since I used the dual set up I just put in a simple relay and fused it. I think the main benefit of the relay is to help the switch survive.

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post #34 of 39 Old 05-19-2014, 09:35 PM
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Thanks for the reply. I talked to goog since posting this and I think I'm going with the stebel nautilus since its only around $45... The wiring is pretty simple. Relay is just so that when the horn button gives the circuit a completion, the relay gives the horn power direct from the battery. Hardest part looks to be running the wires under the tank somewhere... And finding a ground spot for the relay. Time to bust out my soldering iron pretty soon, and wire one of these suckers up!

I'm near NYC... Not riding around in it. Thank goodness. That'd be pretty hectic. Airhorn is probably the best safety bang for the buck besides auxiliary lights reflective clothing and l.e.d.'s!!

03 Honda 919 - Custom Blue Metallic - Sato Racing Pipes - Power Commander - Sargent Seat - Rizoma Mirrors & Levers - Progrips - Renthal Bars - Powder Coated Rims/Pipes - Clear Alternatives Tail - LED Blinkers
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post #35 of 39 Old 01-21-2015, 08:04 AM
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Bumping this thread because I just got the 400/500Hz PIAA horn combo and was looking for some info on how you mounted them in a location other than stock like behind the headlight. What relay did you use?

I'm debating whether I'll need both horns and am inclined to just mount the 400Hz and sell off the 500Hz. Anyone have experience running just one of the horns? How does it compare to stock?

Any help would be appreciated.

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post #36 of 39 Old 01-21-2015, 11:01 AM
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Easy: You can use the top mounting bolt for the radiator to mount one and place the other in the stock location.

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post #37 of 39 Old 01-21-2015, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSB_ESQ View Post
Bumping this thread because I just got the 400/500Hz PIAA horn combo and was looking for some info on how you mounted them in a location other than stock like behind the headlight. What relay did you use?

I'm debating whether I'll need both horns and am inclined to just mount the 400Hz and sell off the 500Hz. Anyone have experience running just one of the horns? How does it compare to stock?

Any help would be appreciated.
Dan,
I updated to the 500/600Hz PIAA horn set a few years ago and I'm very satisfied. Huge improvement over the oem. The dual tone combo adds real presence. I tried each individually and like the combo best. From what i read these PIAA are pretty low draw horns (around 3-4 amps) and in fact less than the oem. So if you only use one horn you really won't need a relay.
Like the pics early in this thread and as just suggested, I put both in the area of the original horn / radiator. And I just used a std. automotive (~$5.00) relay.

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post #38 of 39 Old 01-22-2015, 08:14 AM
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Thanks for the responses. I really appreciate it. I think I'll go pick up the relay and put them both on there. So many things to do once the weather gets warm....

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post #39 of 39 Old 01-22-2015, 11:17 AM
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I fabbed up a bracket out of angle iron. So far so good...

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