Honda warranty = CRAP!! - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 70 Old 09-01-2007, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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Honda warranty = CRAP!!

So everyone knows of the famous brake howl some of our bikes are prone to making. My bike has had this howling noise since the bike has had 150 miles on the odometer. I have had it in to the dealer 9 times over the past year, they have replaced the rotors twice and the pads three times plus several attempts to bevell the edges of the pads. The bike has been down for a total of 3 and 1/2 months in the first year.
The bike is still at the dealer waiting for a dicission from the honda rep, I recieved a call from them stating that my bike is one of only 2 bikes they have ever heard making this noise and that they believe that it is my riding style that is causing the noise. I am currently waiting untill this tuesday to talk to the rep in person.
This is really upsetting me, I mean come on how can they work on it nine times and can't figure the proplem out so they just throw there hands in the air and say it must be the riders fault. I am certified audi and vw technition, if I were to treat my customers like this audi would pull our dealers license and have me fired.


I would like the members here to help me, because I am unhappy with hondas service and offeneded that they are trying to blame me , I am going to pursue the lemon-law. If any you that suffer from this noise would not mind giving me, in private, your name and contact info, I would be gratefull.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=0

Also here is a clip of the noise, I would only like to here from people that suffer from THIS NOISE, NOT brake squeal because a little brake squeal is normal. Maybe by some miracle if enough of us get together we can make them fix this issue in all of our bikes and not just the ones under warranty.

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post #2 of 70 Old 09-01-2007, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
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On a side note, Here is a video I found that made me feel better while I was looking for my brake noise video on google video lol .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CCP4AFWQxs

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post #3 of 70 Old 09-01-2007, 09:45 AM
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I can't help you any with your brake noise but if you do decide to pursue the lemon law, let me know.
I went through it last year with my VStrom and Suzuki had to buy my bike back.

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post #4 of 70 Old 09-01-2007, 09:46 AM Thread Starter
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How did that turn out for you, did you lose any money in the deal, did you have to hire a lawyer?

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post #5 of 70 Old 09-01-2007, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by mrjason View Post
How did that turn out for you, did you lose any money in the deal, did you have to hire a lawyer?

I hired a lawyer that specialized in the lemon law.
Suzuki had to pay all legal fees.
I had bought hand guards and grip heaters and they reimbursed me for those, too. I lost no money, but it was an emotional mess for me, just dealing with the stonewalling jerks.

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post #6 of 70 Old 09-01-2007, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
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How many miles were on your bike and did they dock you for that? The only reason I have'nt pusued it fully is due to the fact that I have a loan on my bike and I can't afford to loose any money if I want another bike.

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post #7 of 70 Old 09-01-2007, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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also what state do you reside in?

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post #8 of 70 Old 09-01-2007, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by mrjason View Post
How many miles were on your bike and did they dock you for that? The only reason I have'nt pusued it fully is due to the fact that I have a loan on my bike and I can't afford to loose any money if I want another bike.
115 miles. I'm in NC.
Document EVERYTHING. Every conversation.
I sent them a certified letter which they are required to acknowledge. I didn't finance the bike, but they made me an offer to make any payments while they continued working on the bike.

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post #9 of 70 Old 09-01-2007, 10:34 AM
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Sorry to hear about your problems with Honda. They're usually fairly good.

On a side note: I agree that Audi has been excellent in attending to my auto issues, but VW is absolutely horrible. I had the worst buying and owning experience with VW a few years back. I vowed to never go near a VW, but am trying Audi now? Who knew?

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post #10 of 70 Old 09-01-2007, 10:44 AM
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PM on the way jason.

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post #11 of 70 Old 09-01-2007, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
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thanks for posting people, and thanks for the info ken.

This goes for bikes that are out of warranty too, I would like honda to pursue this problem instead of pretending they don't know, so give me your contact info and hopefully I can show them if in just a few days I can find a handfull of people that have the proplem, so why cant they?

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post #12 of 70 Old 09-01-2007, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC51_CBRXX View Post
Sorry to hear about your problems with Honda. They're usually fairly good.

On a side note: I agree that Audi has been excellent in attending to my auto issues, but VW is absolutely horrible. I had the worst buying and owning experience with VW a few years back. I vowed to never go near a VW, but am trying Audi now? Who knew?

The difference between audi and vw is that most vw parts and assembly is done in mexico(85% to be exact) and audi produces there parts and assembles there vehicles in germany(not trying to sound racsis) but the germans hold high expectations. Also audi's aren't produced in as many mass quanities, and us audi techs are required to have alot more advanced schooling than vdub techs. I am lucky though my main job is advanced diagnostics of audi electrical systems but my dealer also sales vw's which are a breeze to work on compared to audi's, this results in a fat paycheck for yours truly, now if I could just do something about those taxes.


By the way what kind of audi do you have, model/engine/qauttro?

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post #13 of 70 Old 09-01-2007, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mrjason View Post
On a side note, Here is a video I found that made me feel better while I was looking for my brake noise video on google video lol .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CCP4AFWQxs
now that is some funmny stuff

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post #14 of 70 Old 09-01-2007, 12:30 PM
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Oscillations

I've read many posts about a front brake howl or squeal that Honda seems to be unable to fix, this just being the latest. It seems to me that this places the ball firmly in our court. I can't be of much help directly because my '02 has never made a peep when the brakes are applied (I know you don't want to hear that!), and in my searches through the various posts could find no references to '02s with this problem, though I'm sure there are some. This may be due to the first year production tooling being slightly inaccurate, producing rotors of slightly varying mass. Read on for an explanation.
I think my experience with casting bells may be of some help. Several of my early attempts made an unresounding thud when struck which was frustrating at first, but eventually became almost amusing as a beautifully finished bell sounded as if it was cast in lead instead of bronze. Checking my work revealed the inner core had shifted when I pulled the pattern from the sand, producing an uneven wall thickness and therefore differing natural frequencies in parts of the bell which cancelled each other out. This may provide a clue to preventing squeal. A brake rotor can be described as a flat bell of very even section which will ring if struck lightly by a soft mallet, even while still in its carrier. I just went out and retracted the pads on one of my discs and tapped the rotor lightly with a piece of wood, and heard a ring of about 800 Hz, and a fainter first harmonic of double that. The other rotor goes thud. Expanding on this, the comment can be made "But the pads don't tap the rotors, they rub firmly against them! A different thing altogether!" True as far as it goes, but there are different ways to initiate a vibration: drawing a bow across a violin string starts a vibration in the string despite the continued contact of the bow, but can be reduced to a scraping sound by lightly touching the string. My speculation is the pads are acting as the bow, possibly accentuated by the holes in the rotor, and causing a reinforced wave in the metal until the brake pressure is changed enough to stop the oscillation. Fine and dandy, but where to go from here? Obviously, you can't grab the rotor while braking, but you may be able to change the natural frequency of a section of the rotor by altering the mass -- just grind a small amount of metal away from the inner arc between the retainers on one section, a couple thou should do, then polish the ground metal to prevent stress risers causing cracking. This may change the mass of the section enough to prevent ringing. Alternatively, drilling a random series of holes in the rotor slightly larger (then chamfering them to remove burrs) may have the same effect. I think it's worth trying, and is preferable to repeated trips to the dealer with no observable improvement.
To all out there with this problem, I hope this helps.

Rob

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post #15 of 70 Old 09-01-2007, 12:34 PM
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Keep in mind my brake howl (which was an identical pitch to jason's) went away when I bled the front brakes at the time I installed Galfer lines. In hindsight I should have done one thing at a time. Later on I installed wave rotors and had no sound with them either.

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post #16 of 70 Old 09-01-2007, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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I am not about to drill holes in my rotor, I have already tried bleeding the barkes, and I am reluctant to buy galfer lines due to another member saying that it did not help.

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post #17 of 70 Old 09-01-2007, 12:55 PM
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mrjason, I have an '04 919, bought new. It has 30,000 miles on it now. The front brakes squeal now and have for about 20,000 miles. I just sucked it up and let it go because of my one other experience with the Honda warranty. I had the jacket stink in a big way. I could smell exhaust up in my full face helmet and any passenger came away commenting on the smell.

I called Honda customer service and got a man, Jason, I think. I discussed it with him. He told me to take it to the dealer where I got it, but then his voice changed and he said, "but if we find nothing wrong with any part of your bike, you will stand the cost of the exploratory session!" I told him that if the session included one of the technicians actually riding my bike, I wouldn't be afraid of his threat. He said they might ride it and they might not. I was so mad, I vowed to purchase not one more thing from Honda. Luckily, I had no other problems before the warranty ran out.

So count me in.

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post #18 of 70 Old 09-01-2007, 02:08 PM
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About 600 miles ago my brakes started to squeal, I blew all the brake dust out of the calipers with compressed air and it's been fine since. This kind of makes me think it might be a brake dust related problem (perhaps the brake dust is preventing the pads from seating properly in the caliper allowing it to cause the harmonic response that we are hearing) but then again, this wouldn't explain why some of us haven't had any problems at all.
Maybe it's just wide parameters of manufacturing tolerances. That would explain why some of us have it and some don't. It would also explain why the guys who have installed the Galfer rotors don't have any problems at all.
Maybe try to get Honda to install some aftermarket rotors?
I'm mostly just thinking out loud.
Best of luck.

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post #19 of 70 Old 09-01-2007, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjason View Post
The difference between audi and vw is that most vw parts and assembly is done in mexico(85% to be exact) and audi produces there parts and assembles there vehicles in germany(not trying to sound racsis) but the germans hold high expectations. Also audi's aren't produced in as many mass quanities, and us audi techs are required to have alot more advanced schooling than vdub techs. I am lucky though my main job is advanced diagnostics of audi electrical systems but my dealer also sales vw's which are a breeze to work on compared to audi's, this results in a fat paycheck for yours truly, now if I could just do something about those taxes.


By the way what kind of audi do you have, model/engine/qauttro?
That doesn't sound racist, just not accurate in my case. As a German, I don't hold high expectations with anything. Oh wait, except for a cars warranty service.

I can't believe I still drive an Audi after the way I'm treated almost every time I go in there. Anything I ask to have fixed under warranty was the same as you are experiencing with Honda now, "driver probably at fault" They will try giving me a guilt trip every time.

I had to take it in 6 times for one thing before they fixed it. I took it in 5 times for another thing and they never fixed it. When I went in the 5th time to have it fixed there was about 1 week of warranty left and said it must be fixed now, with emphasis on the warranty expiring. Got the car back, same problem still and they said the warranty was up and they didn't have to fix it. Called Audi of America and they said it's dealers discretion. So, sucks to be me.

I took it in to have the belts replaced, had the pulleys, thermostat, etc replaced while they were digging around. A week later a belt blew and the car had to be towed. They charged me to look at it in order to see if it's their fault or not. I had to pay towing, car rental, and diagnostics on it. They said the couldn't see it as their fault... even though they just put everything in new a week prior.

I just started writing another example of poor customer service but I would just go all night... If I wanted such poor customer service I would buy Mercedes... geez. It's an S4, by the way.

Back on track. I would consider having a lawyer squeeze that lemon back on Honda.

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post #20 of 70 Old 09-01-2007, 10:23 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry to here the bad reviews on audi's, some dealers make us all look bad.

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post #21 of 70 Old 09-01-2007, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
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That doesn't sound racist, just not accurate in my case. As a German, I don't hold high expectations with anything. Oh wait, except for a cars warranty service.

I can't believe I still drive an Audi after the way I'm treated almost every time I go in there. Anything I ask to have fixed under warranty was the same as you are experiencing with Honda now, "driver probably at fault" They will try giving me a guilt trip every time.

I had to take it in 6 times for one thing before they fixed it. I took it in 5 times for another thing and they never fixed it. When I went in the 5th time to have it fixed there was about 1 week of warranty left and said it must be fixed now, with emphasis on the warranty expiring. Got the car back, same problem still and they said the warranty was up and they didn't have to fix it. Called Audi of America and they said it's dealers discretion. So, sucks to be me.

I took it in to have the belts replaced, had the pulleys, thermostat, etc replaced while they were digging around. A week later a belt blew and the car had to be towed. They charged me to look at it in order to see if it's their fault or not. I had to pay towing, car rental, and diagnostics on it. They said the couldn't see it as their fault... even though they just put everything in new a week prior.

I just started writing another example of poor customer service but I would just go all night... If I wanted such poor customer service I would buy Mercedes... geez. It's an S4, by the way.

Back on track. I would consider having a lawyer squeeze that lemon back on Honda.
RC-51? S4? Do you have a speed addiction? The first step is admitting it.

BTW, I'm green w/ jealousy

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post #22 of 70 Old 09-02-2007, 03:09 AM
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RC-51? S4? Do you have a speed addiction? The first step is admitting it.

BTW, I'm green w/ jealousy
Even at his youthful age, he can't get laid. So, he has to spend his money somewhere?!

Ask him about the time two supposed hotties want to come over, they were passing through town, and he chose to play Dungeons and Dragons or something.

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post #23 of 70 Old 09-02-2007, 06:24 AM
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Even at his youthful age, he can't get laid. So, he has to spend his money somewhere?!

Ask him about the time two supposed hotties want to come over, they were passing through town, and he chose to play Dungeons and Dragons or something.


At my age you don't have to pay for such things...

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post #24 of 70 Old 09-02-2007, 06:26 AM
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BTW, I'm green w/ jealousy
They are just things that break down like anything else.

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post #25 of 70 Old 09-02-2007, 07:59 AM Thread Starter
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Does your S4 have the 4.2L or the bi-turbo?

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post #26 of 70 Old 09-02-2007, 09:06 AM
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He said the "Bi" word.

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post #27 of 70 Old 09-02-2007, 03:49 PM
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Does your S4 have the 4.2L or the bi-turbo?
The car is bi but I'm straight.

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post #28 of 70 Old 09-02-2007, 07:00 PM
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post #29 of 70 Old 09-14-2007, 03:59 PM Thread Starter
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Here is an update..... I am in the process of arbitration(buyback) has we speak. During the last year I have owned my bike it has been in the shop nine times with a total of 74 days out of service. so far they have replaced the pads 3 times and the rotors twice. Replacing the rotors makes the noise go away for 1000 - 2000 miles but it always returns. The bike has been at the dealer for the past 6 weeks and all they have done is road test the bike 4 miles and measure run out on the rotors, from this they decided the rotors need to be bead blasted. So the service manger took my rotors and pads home on wednesday and said the bike would be ready today(friday). I called them from work this morning only to find out that the service manger is on vacation for a week and he still has my parts! This is by far the worst service I have recieved in my life and I am undecided if I will be buying another honda period!!! And this is a serious mistake considering I own 3 honda 4 wheelers, a honda 3 wheeler, a honda civic, and the 919 of course.

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post #30 of 70 Old 09-14-2007, 04:10 PM
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Sounds like your dealer is the sh!ts.... You're pretty far down the road already with this but you might have considered taking it to another Honda dealer. You might have had better results.

Just a suggestion.

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post #31 of 70 Old 09-14-2007, 04:18 PM
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Well, my experience with Honda Warranty is horrible as well.

My RC51 had many problems. All of which I had to solve on my own.

I had one warranty issue with my Suzuki. It was taken care of over night, and never returned.

I have had one warranty issue with my Triumph, it was repaired in one night while I was given a loaner bike.

Honda is not the service king.
Honda is not the reliability king it used to be.

Honda is one more quality brand that is relying on its past successes to sell bikes.

Dealers make the difference, Not the brand.

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post #32 of 70 Old 09-14-2007, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
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Sounds like your dealer is the sh!ts.... You're pretty far down the road already with this but you might have considered taking it to another Honda dealer. You might have had better results.

Just a suggestion.


This is the third dealer that has had there grubby little hands on my bike with no provail. So in my opinion honda service f-ing sucks.

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post #33 of 70 Old 09-14-2007, 04:23 PM
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Galfer SS brake line!

Okay I posted somewhere that I read awhile back that someone said that when they installed the Galfer lines after trying everything else that the noise stopped. So I ordered some I have now put about 600 miles on mine with the Galfer lines and there is know hint of noise just solid stopping. I didn't do anything else about the braking noise just the lines and it is gone.

I'm very serious about the suggestion! If I were the dealer I wouldn't know what else to do either and I'm sure Honda doesn't. I would try to have this discussion with the dealer. After negotiating a buy back deal with respect. I'd suggest they spend about $130 to buy the Galfer lines and install them and try it. I'll bet the problem will be over and you can just drop the buy back deal. Then you can have the bike you've been wanting with even better brakes than it came with. Problem solved.

Apparently there is a resonance that begins to happen when the rotors begin to wear that reverberates back into the line causing the line to expand and contract as the pads vibrate on the rotor. This probably causes the noise we hear just becuase the length of the line on our bikes is just the right length to make sound at the frequency of the rotor wear.

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post #34 of 70 Old 09-14-2007, 04:34 PM
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This is the third dealer that has had there grubby little hands on my bike with no provail. So in my opinion honda service f-ing sucks.

I know that Suzuki had a field rep that covered a certain area, that the dealer could contact for assistance. Has that happened in your case?

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post #35 of 70 Old 09-14-2007, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjason View Post
This is by far the worst service I have recieved in my life and I am undecided if I will be buying another honda period!!! And this is a serious mistake considering I own 3 honda 4 wheelers, a honda 3 wheeler, a honda civic, and the 919 of course.
Go to the dealer and rub it in their face that you'll never spend a dime there again, but don't give up on Honda

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post #36 of 70 Old 09-14-2007, 06:51 PM Thread Starter
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I know that Suzuki had a field rep that covered a certain area, that the dealer could contact for assistance. Has that happened in your case?
Yes, they have contacted there field rep and he is clueless about it.

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post #37 of 70 Old 09-14-2007, 06:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by hondaf4iguy View Post
Well, my experience with Honda Warranty is horrible as well.

My RC51 had many problems. All of which I had to solve on my own.

I had one warranty issue with my Suzuki. It was taken care of over night, and never returned.

I have had one warranty issue with my Triumph, it was repaired in one night while I was given a loaner bike.

Honda is not the service king.
Honda is not the reliability king it used to be.

Honda is one more quality brand that is relying on its past successes to sell bikes.

Dealers make the difference, Not the brand.
oh yeah.. the warranty itself is fine and dandy... the warranty claims department BLOWS!!! this from experience on the dealership side of things. we've seen tons of stuff get rejected from Honda that is just bull****, where the other big 3 jap companies covered the same or worse stuff. hell, we've gotten burnt clutches on new gixxers covered! they are VERY stingy and don't want to pay for anything! sad thing is, it's one department's screw ups and tight-asses that are ruining everything else.

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post #38 of 70 Old 09-14-2007, 08:24 PM
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I've had two seperate Honda dealers tell me while picking up a new bike they can get just about anything but a clutch covered under warranty. The good thing is I've had several new Hondas and never had a warranty claim. Guess I'm just lucky.

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post #39 of 70 Old 09-14-2007, 09:55 PM
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I bought my '06 with 2300 miles, but didn't notice a howl for about 500 miles. I've since installed Fren Tubo lines (not to cure the howl, I just wanted stiffer lines) and it still does it. Seems like I notice it more under harder braking, but once it starts, varying the lever pressure doesn't make a difference. I don't think it's as loud as yours, though. It doesn't really bother me that much. Kinda reminds me of AirWolf.

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post #40 of 70 Old 09-16-2007, 08:20 AM
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My breaks squeal only the last 50 feet of a stop, just as you are about two seconds from putting your foot on the pavement. If I break at speed, no matter how hard or fast, no sound. ...but just as you are about to stop, next to lots of cars with their windows rolled down for ventilation, here I come sounding like a room full of twelve year old girls at a Beatles concert (sorry, I don't know any current rock bands)!

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