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post #1 of 44 Old 05-26-2006, 09:45 AM Thread Starter
 
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High octane

I have been putting high octane in my bike since I got it. Is there any benefit to this or am I wasting my money? (I have a feeling I know the answer that's coming...)

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post #2 of 44 Old 05-26-2006, 09:49 AM
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I put in what the manual tells me to because Honda made the bike and Honda wrote the manual. I figure if Honda tested the bike, they probably know what should go in it.

Basically, you're wasting your money.

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post #3 of 44 Old 05-26-2006, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ortonomics
I have been putting high octane in my bike since I got it. Is there any benefit to this or am I wasting my money? (I have a feeling I know the answer that's coming...)
Save your $$, these 919's can run on low grade recycled Mexican Tequila.

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post #4 of 44 Old 05-26-2006, 10:12 AM
 
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I agree. I'm over on .net having the same enlightenment course over there. Too many experts over there that know higher octane fuel gives more Hp. Right.

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post #5 of 44 Old 05-26-2006, 10:19 AM
 
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More hp - kinda depends on the ride and the tuning. I know for my GTI, I have different maps for different octanes.

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post #6 of 44 Old 05-26-2006, 04:23 PM
 
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Right. But most of these riders that ask have factory motors that will never see the light of day.

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post #7 of 44 Old 05-26-2006, 05:03 PM
 
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I agree. Use whatever the hell you want to. I don't think you can hurt that 919 engine. It has been around so long that it is almost indestructible. You certainly aren't going to hurt it with 87 octane as long as it is good gas. As for me, I put 93 all day every day, but I have no real justification at all except for the warm fuzzy feeling I get at the pump. Let's just say I didn't buy into the motorcycle "habit" to save money so what the hell?

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post #8 of 44 Old 05-26-2006, 06:27 PM
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High Octane

High octane will not harm your engine in any way. The octane slows the burn, preventing pre ignition, or knocking in high compression, or big bore engines. For the sake of power and cost of fuel, use the lowest octane that will not cause your engine to knock. Switch to low octane gas, you should notice a slight increase in power and fuel milage.

(P.S. I'll have my degree in Petroleum Engineering Dec 2006)

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post #9 of 44 Old 05-27-2006, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pags
High octane will not harm your engine in any way. The octane slows the burn, preventing pre ignition, or knocking in high compression, or big bore engines. For the sake of power and cost of fuel, use the lowest octane that will not cause your engine to knock. Switch to low octane gas, you should notice a slight increase in power and fuel milage.

(P.S. I'll have my degree in Petroleum Engineering Dec 2006)
I was waiting for someone to say this and I would like to add this. The 919 is a relatively low compression engine when compared to other bikes just above it in the sport class. Last fall when I read a similar thread on MotoRush and was directed at that time to a write-up called Race Fuel info on 919.org (Thanks to Mike Wheeler a.k.a. LDH.) I won't spoil the read but the results from 87 Octane may surprise you. I am at 4200 ft above sea level and I have been running 85 Octane since I read this and so far, no pinging. I will switch to 87 or higher if the heat makes my engine ping.. or I just get nervous because it's too damn hot some day. My bike puts more power to the pavement with the lower octane because it burns quicker. I don't have dyno tests to prove this, but it's a difference you can feel. Try it for a tank and you will agree. Keep in mind Honda says 87 Octane minimum. This is the minimum pump gas available at sea level and probably up to 1000 ft above sea level. They don't sell 85 Octane at sea level do they? And you can't get 93 here in the high dessert at 4200 ft.. 91 is our highest.

Disclaimer: as always, your results may vary.

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post #10 of 44 Old 05-27-2006, 06:21 AM
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Here's a little inside info on gasoline. I have a family member that is a fuel dispatcher for a pipeline company in Penn. They supply fuel to airports and gasoline to other tank farms across the country.

So here's the dope. Unless the gasoline you buy has a brand specific additive ( such as Chevron techroline) ALL GASOLINE IS THE SAME.

It all comes from the same tank, through the same pipeline. So it is not necessarily a question of what brand you buy, it is more important that you buy from a location that properly maintains their tanks.

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post #11 of 44 Old 05-27-2006, 06:42 AM
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I gotta run 91 or greater in the ZX10R as that bike is tuned to run the smooth stuff.

I use a Superchips tuner on my Chev 6.0L motor. If I tune for power (changes ignition curve) I have to run 91. Stock curve, 87. Difference is very noticeable.

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post #12 of 44 Old 05-27-2006, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s10hornet

So here's the dope. Unless the gasoline you buy has a brand specific additive ( such as Chevron techroline) ALL GASOLINE IS THE SAME.
Yeah, they all start out the same. It is the additive that makes them different. Doesn't have to be name brand, just add octane. If the hauler doesn't put it in, then the blends are not blends at all, just straight. It is the additive that makes the difference. That is why some people stick with name brands, they are more confident that the "blend" is happening. $0.02.

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post #13 of 44 Old 05-27-2006, 11:50 PM
 
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I think gasoline is like fine wine... the older it is the better.

Gas is at its finest when you notice a distinct varsolish smell and the colour changes from a light yellowish green to a more... lets say... burnt amber color. If you get clumps of sediment conjealing at the surface that is just the fuel concentrating into super combustive wads of horsepower.

That "old gas" smell you get from the exhaust is indicative of a high performance well tuned machine.


my $.02

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post #14 of 44 Old 05-28-2006, 05:49 AM
 
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Yeah I got a whole tankful of that special edition high horsepower race fuel. That is why the carbs are in a thousand pieces on my kitchen table.

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post #15 of 44 Old 05-28-2006, 10:00 AM
 
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When I first got this bike I ran nothing but 93 for months. I switched to 87 and ran that for months. Even with a relatively high compression motor in the 600RR, it runs the same. So I continued to run 87 to this day.

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post #16 of 44 Old 05-28-2006, 06:15 PM
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The bike should retard the timing if you put lower grade octane, so that the engine doesn't ruin itself. Technically you should just notice less performance. But I'd stick to what the manual says personally.

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post #17 of 44 Old 05-28-2006, 06:42 PM
 
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I don't think every bike has a knock sensor. Besides, my bike is a 12:1 compression ratio (higher than most) and Honda still recommends 87.

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post #18 of 44 Old 10-06-2007, 03:22 AM
 
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I am having knocking problems even with the 91 octane pretty much every time i accelerate. I think the spark is too far advanced. (?) Is there a way to back the timing off a bit?

2007 919, no modifications.

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post #19 of 44 Old 10-06-2007, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceman spiff View Post
I am having knocking problems even with the 91 octane pretty much every time i accelerate. I think the spark is too far advanced. (?) Is there a way to back the timing off a bit?

2007 919, no modifications.
You're probably hearing the fuel injectors. Is it down low when loading the engine, around 3-4K rpm? If so, that's probably it.

"Towards the end of the vid, it looks like she may have had a bafflectomy." - MarylandMike
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post #20 of 44 Old 10-06-2007, 09:28 AM
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OK... This may sound stupid, but I think I get less exhaust stink from my 919 from using the 93 vs the 87...? Is this my imagination?

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post #21 of 44 Old 10-06-2007, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion View Post
OK... This may sound stupid, but I think I get less exhaust stink from my 919 from using the 93 vs the 87...? Is this my imagination?
It seems the sulfur contant is less in higher grades of fuel and even less in more expensive brands of fuel. Say what you want, but you can always tell when the person in front of you is burning that 87 octane "raceway" fuel(by the smell).

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post #22 of 44 Old 10-06-2007, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion View Post
OK... This may sound stupid, but I think I get less exhaust stink from my 919 from using the 93 vs the 87...? Is this my imagination?
Hmmm... Now that's something to think about! After reading this thread months ago, I switched back to 87. I may now go back up to 93 if this rings true.

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post #23 of 44 Old 10-06-2007, 11:38 AM
 
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My Experiance Is That When I Get 93 Octane And Keep It Below 80m.p.h. On Trips I Can Get 46 To 48 Miles Per Gallon....But 87 Octane Same Conditions I Get 42 To 45 m.p.g. .....

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post #24 of 44 Old 10-06-2007, 03:35 PM
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I think the exhaust smell is definitely less with 93 octane, I try to use only Shell V-Power or BP Ultimate. There is a difference in cheaper brands of gas vs the big boys, I learned that while working for Volkswagen. Why mess with cheap gas for the $.47 a tank you might save?

I get 50mpg on road trips and about 45 around town. Better mileage with the Satos and PCIII than stock.

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post #25 of 44 Old 10-06-2007, 03:49 PM
 
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The exhaust smell is very nice, I am glad I use 87.

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post #26 of 44 Old 10-06-2007, 04:33 PM
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I love the smell of exhaust gas in the morning

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post #27 of 44 Old 10-07-2007, 06:29 AM
 
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Here the maanual says91 RON but obviusly you may have different test methods ,anyway doesnt matter.Unless your bike has O2 sensor or is tuned for it you are PROBABLY wasting money(cant adjust/no knock sensor).Use the min you can use as these bikes are relatively low comp and revving.Go to servos that are busy as you get fresh petrol not stuff that has been sitting there.Another thing I've heard over here is that if not used regularly hi-oct can "go off".i have heard of this several times and causes probs ranging from poor starting or even not starting until the fuel has been drained.

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post #28 of 44 Old 10-07-2007, 09:31 AM
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Here's a couple fuel articles from a guy who is a rocket surgeon.


Dr Rob 1


Dr Rob 2

This is the guy that built the Tularis.

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post #29 of 44 Old 10-07-2007, 01:28 PM
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You may or may not see less stink with one brand or grade of gas but octane has NOTHING to do with smell. Sulfur content has a lot to do with smell but sulfur content is unrelated to octane.

High octane gas and low octane gas come from the same tanks. High octane gas merely has additives to raise the octane. Higher octane is only for detonation resistance in high compression engines. Remember high school physics and the ideal gas law? pv=nrt? If you take a cylinder filled with fuel / air and compress it, it gets hot. Compress it enough and you make it go off before the spark plug says it is time to go boom. This is called detonation. Detonation is bad because you are firing early before the piston is finished its compression stroke.

High octane does not make any more horsepower. High compression engines make more horsepower than low compression engines. High compression engines need higher octane gas so they do not detonate (or knock).

If you are knocking, you need higher octane. If you are not knocking, higher octane will only empty your wallet quicker. Period. Now it may be possible at station XYZ that their high octane stuff is from a different distributor than their low octane stuff and therefore may stink more / less. But this is a coincidence.

You cannot get higher mileage with higher octane unless you are knocking. There is no extra energy there. Actually there is very slightly less energy because the octane additives they add contain less energy than the raw gas.

David

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post #30 of 44 Old 10-07-2007, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
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Remember high school physics and the ideal gas law? pv=nrt?
No.

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post #31 of 44 Old 10-08-2007, 03:40 AM
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Remember high school physics and the ideal gas law? pv=nrt?
I remember that the girl who sat in front of me had 5 moles/kg

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post #32 of 44 Old 10-08-2007, 07:19 AM
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I remember the girl I had a crush on, sat next to me in Chemistry. I don't remember Chemistry, either.

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post #33 of 44 Old 10-08-2007, 07:29 AM
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I member alot of stuff but I don't know if any of it was real.



On my KLR, if I'm gonna ride it hard I put in premium to help it run a bit cooler. Like when the ambient temp was 110° in Nevada and me and Stan were WFO on Interstate 15 and the road to Rachel. That was a good time to run 91.

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post #34 of 44 Old 10-08-2007, 07:32 AM
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I had this hot redhead that sat next to me my in my freshman college chemistry class, she was the only reason I passed. I'm a word kind of guy after all, those formulas never really stuck in my head.

I still say that Shell V-Power makes my bike run the best and stink the least, if it's an coincidence, then so be it. Weekend road trip returned 55 MPG! Why mess with success?

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post #35 of 44 Old 10-08-2007, 08:04 AM
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post #36 of 44 Old 10-08-2007, 09:46 AM
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Gas

I know everyone knows this, but, maybe one of you don't. If I see a tanker dumping gas at a station I keep right on rolling to the next station. You're not getting really fresh gas, you're getting a big dose of mud and water that gets stirred up from the bottom of the tanks.

[
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post #37 of 44 Old 10-08-2007, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brokerecord View Post
I know everyone knows this, but, maybe one of you don't. If I see a tanker dumping gas at a station I keep right on rolling to the next station. You're not getting really fresh gas, you're getting a big dose of mud and water that gets stirred up from the bottom of the tanks.
Maybe I'm that one. Never thought of that, but makes sense to me.

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post #38 of 44 Old 10-08-2007, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brokerecord View Post
I know everyone knows this, but, maybe one of you don't. If I see a tanker dumping gas at a station I keep right on rolling to the next station. You're not getting really fresh gas, you're getting a big dose of mud and water that gets stirred up from the bottom of the tanks.

My dad taught me this when I was old enough to understand that cars need fuel to run.

I am still a little skeptical about Shell. My family had this 92 Dodge Caravan. It ran fine except when it was gassed up at Shell. It would keep sputterin and dying. Now this was back in the mid '90s, but i haven't really used Shell since then.

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post #39 of 44 Old 10-08-2007, 11:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbeau1960 View Post
I had this hot redhead that sat next to me my in my freshman college chemistry class, she was the only reason I passed. I'm a word kind of guy after all, those formulas never really stuck in my head.

I still say that Shell V-Power makes my bike run the best and stink the least, if it's an coincidence, then so be it. Weekend road trip returned 55 MPG! Why mess with success?
+1 I switched to V-Power and all the stink is gone now. I believe someone posted a complaint of pinging earlier. I ran 87 in my 9 before I switchd to Shell premium and it pinged under mild acceleration up to 3, 3.5k rpm, no ping on V-power

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post #40 of 44 Old 10-08-2007, 11:11 AM
 
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Just my .02$ for comparison purposes only.

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