Here is a video of my brake problem! - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 06:17 PM Thread Starter
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Here is a video of my brake problem!

I thought you guys should hear it for yourself.

http://video.google.com/videouploadf...VZJXzEwMTE.avi

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post #2 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 06:23 PM Thread Starter
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post #3 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 06:30 PM
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Dude, how did you trick out your brakes like that? Sweet!

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post #4 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 06:34 PM Thread Starter
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Boy I wish I could be that happy about it.

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post #5 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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If you notice I am only using 1 finger to engage the brakes, the harder you pull them the louder it gets, that is until you lock them up.

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post #6 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 06:43 PM
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Have you taken it to the dealer yet?
Sorry but I've havent been on here much lately as I've been in the process of moving and starting a new job

Even if you have I would take it back again, thats what warranty is for

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post #7 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 06:49 PM
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Obviously either the pads or the rotors... or both(probably not). Demand that one or the other is replaced.

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post #8 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 06:50 PM Thread Starter
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Its been to the dealer 4 times now and they keep tellin me its normal for the brakes to make this noise until the pads seat, and I should put more miles on the bike and everything will be fine. I think there a bunch of lying a-holes so I called the Honda service line and told them the problem, they now have a "honda specialist" on the case, he is supposed to call me back within two business days.

The funny thing is they are getting worse and worse since the dealer did what they call "heat treating the rotors", where they got them really hot and poured cold water on them.

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post #9 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ragdoll View Post
Obviously either the pads or the rotors... or both(probably not). Demand that one or the other is replaced.

They have already replaced the pads once and the noise got worse, now they say honda won't authorize new rotors till a honda rep comes out to see the bike, which they say won't be until November!!!!!!

This is why I called the Honda hotline and I sure hope it hurries them up.

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post #10 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 06:55 PM
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I have never heard of such a "heat treating procedure", It definitely is not necessary, and I cant see how it would be good to quench hot brake rotors with cold water, it would have to alter the temper of the metal.

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post #11 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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I have been in the automotive field for the last 5 years, and spraying the hot rotors with cold water is a diffenite "no-no".

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post #12 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 06:57 PM
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Sometimes brakes will squeal from really light use, they can get a little glazed, , usually a few hard stops etc can cure most of the problem but I really think you have a different problem. try another dealer maybe?

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post #13 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
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I think I'll try a different dealer tomorrow.

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post #14 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 07:04 PM
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That's defintely the noise!

Mine had almost 1400 miles on it and I gave up hope that the pads would seat and the noise would stop. I took off the pads a couple nights ago, cleaned everything with brake spray cleaner, gave the back of the pads a light coating of Sil-Glyde, and put it all back together. I was only able to go for a quick ride that night, and the pads were barely warmed up, but there was no squeal. I'm going to give it a good test ride tomorrow and will let you know if the Sil-Glyde did the trick.

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post #15 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 07:06 PM
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.. they keep tellin me its normal for the brakes to make this noise until the pads seat,
That's bulls..t
Take it to a different Honda dealer.

I also doubt very much that they should have been "heat treating" the rotors either. Any treatment the rotors need would already have been done at the factory.

If this were me, I'd be demanding new rotors and new pads or I'd be contacting Honda directly.. But that's me!

To be honest that sounds a little like glazed pads.
If some spray polish or some such thing found it's way onto the rotors at some stage, then it will glaze up the pads.
Try taking the pads out and running over the surface with some wet and dry sandpaper. See if that makes any difference at all.
Also check that the calipers are bolted on firmly and that the rotors are the right way 'round.. It's possible for eg that a tyre could be fitted backwards on the wheel then the wheel put back on the bike with the tyres arrows the right way 'round. This would result in rotors being the wrong way round. Though I don't think that would cause the noise your getting plus you'd be able to tell by the spoke pattern.

It's also quite possible that the rotor mounts are incorrectly seated / installed.
All the more reason to go to another dealer and get the thing fixed properly under warranty.

For what it's worth, there's no way I'd put up with that or the crap that dealer keeps telling you.

Good luck with it mate!
Ps, the video was a good idea!

post #16 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 07:07 PM
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I'd be pissed. That ain't right. Make them start with nothing less than changing the rotors and pads, and extend the warranty however much time it's been in the shop/down waiting for parts. You can get the warranty extended if you push the issue.

"Towards the end of the vid, it looks like she may have had a bafflectomy." - MarylandMike
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post #17 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 07:10 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DropBear 9 View Post
That's bulls..t
Take it to a different Honda dealer.

I also doubt very much that they should have been "heat treating" the rotors either. Any treatment the rotors need would already have been done at the factory.

If this were me, I'd be demanding new rotors and new pads or I'd be contacting Honda directly.. But that's me!

To be honest that sounds a little like glazed pads.
If some spray polish or some such thing found it's way onto the rotors at some stage, then it will glaze up the pads.
Try taking the pads out and running over the surface with some wet and dry sandpaper. See if that makes any difference at all.
Also check that the calipers are bolted on firmly and that the rotors are the right way 'round.. It's possible for eg that a tyre could be fitted backwards on the wheel then the wheel put back on the bike with the tyres arrows the right way 'round. This would result in rotors being the wrong way round. Though I don't think that would cause the noise your getting plus you'd be able to tell by the spoke pattern.

It's also quite possible that the rotor mounts are incorrectly seated / installed.
All the more reason to go to another dealer and get the thing fixed properly under warranty.

For what it's worth, there's no way I'd put up with that or the crap that dealer keeps telling you.

Good luck with it mate!
Ps, the video was a good idea!

I have already had the pads off, I chamfered the edges of the pads, cleaned everything, put the stop squeek stuff on, and made sure everything was installed correctly. The only thing I can think that could be wrong is a bad set of rotors from the factory.

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post #18 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 07:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mrjason View Post
I thought you guys should hear it for yourself.

http://video.google.com/videouploadf...VZJXzEwMTE.avi
Man, that is pretty messed up. If you are braking in front of people/cute girls, just use the back brake (until this is fixed).

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post #19 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 07:14 PM Thread Starter
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Man, that is pretty messed up. If you are braking in front of people/cute girls, just use the back brake (until this is fixed).

I think I'm going to wear the rear brakes out prematurely because of this .

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post #20 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 07:20 PM
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If you could post pics of the video person we could begin the derailment of this thread. It's gone way too far already.

"Towards the end of the vid, it looks like she may have had a bafflectomy." - MarylandMike
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post #21 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 07:22 PM
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I know it doesn't really help, but I test rode a 04 919 the other day that was making the same noise. It had about 12,000 miles on it.

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post #22 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
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If you could post pics of the video person we could begin the derailment of this thread. It's gone way too far already.
Thats my girl of you couldn't tell from the glimpse of painted toe nails in one of the videos.

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post #23 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 07:37 PM
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I know it doesn't really help, but I test rode a 04 919 the other day that was making the same noise. It had about 12,000 miles on it.
So bad rotors seems unlikely.

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post #24 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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So bad rotors seems unlikely.

Well it depends on how many of the bikes were affected if there is a batch of bad rotors going around.

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post #25 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 08:22 PM
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You definitely need to get a better camera person. Where did they learn to operate a video camera??? I almost got sick in the first few second with all the jostling around... uuuuggghhhhhh.

But man your breaks sure do squeak. Have you had them looked at yet? Maybe you should change the pads or rotors!

So did that derail the thread???



But honestly MrJ... sorry to hear about the issues. My 06 has been just fine and I would hope that Honda would get you fixed up sooner rather than later.


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post #26 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 08:37 PM
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You probably already did it, but you can call Honda Motorcycle Co. at 310-532-9811 to complain.

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post #27 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 08:38 PM
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My 06 is quiet so far. This may not help you at all but it proves that it can be done.

If all that doesn't work, try buying a different brand of pad like the EBC organic pads. They should be the most quiet.

It's hard to believe that the rotor is bad. It's just a metal disk. That sound sounds like the pads grip and slide grip and slide but at a very very fast rate giving it that constant sound.

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post #28 of 93 Old 09-14-2006, 11:16 PM
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If they keep you bent over without the decency of a reacharound for much longer (let's face it, this current dealership is screwing your exit only hole) I would definately try to make Honda do a double take at this situation. They are trying to get the 919 to make it big here in the states just like it is next door. E-mail them a copy of your video and tell them this is going on every bike forum if the problem isn't fixed by the end next week.

I am sure the Honda big wigs wouldn't not approve of this lack of quality. Not in their bikes, not in their parts, not in their dealers, and most definitely not in their mechs. This is kinda making me have second thoughts about renewing my own warranty. If they can't treat a that comes in for repairs like it is their own, I would rather do it all myself. Lack of quality on any vehicle is gambling with someone elses life (especially on a bike)!!

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post #29 of 93 Old 09-15-2006, 01:03 AM
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I thought you guys should hear it for yourself.

Wow! Those brakes sing! Like I have said previously mine would squeal a little when used lightly for the life of the OEM pads.. about 20k miles. It was worse on hot days.. but as has been recommended here.. cleaning made the noise go away for a while. On mine, I would blow out the dust or use brake cleaner, but the noise would come back. I found if I would brake harder and get some heat on them... basically knock down the glaze.. they were quiet the rest of my ride. Really, it only made noise for a few miles or on short trips, then went away.

Your brakes are efft! That is clearly harmonic vibration. It happens when the pads and rotors are glazed, and a harmonic vibration creates a loud audible tone.. much like a wet finger around the rim of a crystal wine glass. In your case there could be a defect in one or both rotors.. but I have a different possibility to propose. It just occurred to me what the problem could be, and if it turns out I am right, you owe me a beer.

If one of your calipers is not functioning with as much force as the other, or, only one side of that caliper is pressing its pad against the rotor, harmonic vibrations would not be counter acted by equal pressure applied on both sides of the rotor. In fact, I think that is what it is. You have a bad caliper, or air in the line, or perhaps a caliper piston is binding. It may only take one of the four pistons to not be pressing as hard to make the noise. You state that the harder you press the worse it gets.. well if one side of the caliper is jact then all it does is force the rotor hard to the malfunctioning side, and it would sing loud, just like it does. Of course, this would be easy enough to check with all the pads out and very light application of the brake lever. You would need to be very careful not to pop the pistons right out. Probably best to only test one side at a time leaving the other side on the rotor with pads installed.

I might be wrong, but your sh!t is definitely jact! It's not the normal brake squeal we have had reported on the 9ers with brake noise. When mine made noise is was a high pitched ringing.. way higher pitch than what yours are making... and hard application of the brakes made it instantly vanish.. assuming I was going fast enough to brake harder.. that was the frustrating part.

Second, the "heat treatment" of the rotors performed by your dealer is crap. Obviously I am not the first to say this and I am sure you knew it was crap when the dude squatted down and left it steamin' in front of you. That said, the 9er rotors cool almost instantly under normal use.. so I doubt if your idiot mechanic heated them by riding the bike, he could hurt them with cold water. If he put heat to them with a torch, that is just stupid and they would likely show signs of this by having scorched paint and wisps of carbon dust covering them. The notion that heating them and quickly cooling them with cold water can somehow alter the temper of the steel is absurd. They would have to be heated glowing red a$$ed hot.. almost to the melting point, to change the molecular alignment. I would not worry about this shop being able to do that. What could happen if they were heat red hot, and heated unevenly or rapidly cooled unevenly, they could crack.. again, very unlikely the shop possesses the means to even come close to this kind of heat. So check for burning or blistering paint and carbon on them, otherwise blow it off as just stupid idiot crapping out piles of worthless lip service in your direction.

Check the operation of your calipers!

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post #30 of 93 Old 09-15-2006, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken View Post
So bad rotors seems unlikely.
The friggin' idiot mechanic did some kind of heat up/water splash cooldown treatment on the rotors. Get the rotors replaced. And with new rotors get new pads. This should be the minimum treatment.

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post #31 of 93 Old 09-15-2006, 06:07 AM
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Holy crap that's bad! I thought, from your initial description, that you might be overreacting. This video shows that is not the case. Mine have never been that loud, and I've put 22,000 miles on it. They squeak when cold or wet, but only under hard braking, and never that loudly.

I'd say go to a different dealer. That dealer is screwing the pooch. This time, you get to be the pooch, unfortunately.

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post #32 of 93 Old 09-15-2006, 10:24 AM
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Mine made that noise occasionally for the first about 1000 miles, yes exactly that noise. With some heavier applications from higher speeds, they quit making thet noise, so a glaze of some sort seems likely, or the stuck caliper slide, or piston seems fairly likely. Mine functions normally now, with the only sound being the light scrape when they are not applied that is normal.

Try some hard stops (not lockup though!) from higher speeds and make sure all the sliding parts are lubed.

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post #33 of 93 Old 09-15-2006, 01:58 PM
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yep same noise i was getting when i didn't put my front wheel on the right way.

Try this...
With the wheels on the ground losen your front axle and pinch bolts on both sides.

Now tighten the axle bolt to 43 lbf ft then tight the right side pinch bolts to 16 lbf ft

get on the bike, while applying front brake pump the forks up and down serveral times (to seet the axle)

then tighten the left side pinch bolts 16 lbf ft

call me in the morning.

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post #34 of 93 Old 09-15-2006, 02:16 PM
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A misaligned wheel would do exactly what I proposed a couple posts up in this thread... put uneven pressure on the rotor causing at least one side of at least one rotor to not be getting full caliper to pad force against the rotor. Thereby causing the harmonic singing we hear on this 9er. We are definitely on the right track here. No doubt in my mind.


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yep same noise i was getting when i didn't put my front wheel on the right way.

Try this...
With the wheels on the ground losen your front axle and pinch bolts on both sides.

Now tighten the axle bolt to 43 lbf ft then tight the right side pinch bolts to 16 lbf ft

get on the bike, while applying front brake pump the forks up and down serveral times (to seet the axle)

then tighten the left side pinch bolts 16 lbf ft

call me in the morning.

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post #35 of 93 Old 09-15-2006, 03:27 PM
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Dude - Black socks w/ black shoes. repeat to yourself until rote.


anyway about the brakes. i have an 06 as well and have some slight squeeling w/ light braking; much like what motocycho described. i have never heard a bike doing what yours does. have you talked to the shop manager, or just a service guy. if the shop manager blows you too, then i would never trust that dealer w/ anything again. letter writing campains work wonders, and your idea of forwarding the video to honda is a good one. im sure in the end they will make it right. that doesnt make up for it being a pain in the arse. good luck.

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post #36 of 93 Old 09-15-2006, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
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The Honda rep called me back today, and after I blew some steam off on the phone, he started appologizing for the problem. He then stated that it was my choise of were to take the bike to and whatever the mechanic wanted to do to the bike would be done, also my warranty dates would be changed to whenever the problem is taken care of.

Today I took the bike to a dealer that sells a varity of makes and models and they also specialize in aftermarket parts and upgrades. The Mechanic, who seemed very knowledgable, Stated that he would be putting new rotors and some quality organic pads on the bike. He also said the bike was assembled correctly and everything was working properly, he believes that honda has used to touching surfaces that don't agree with each other(i.e. the pads and rotors).

So to everyone out there with this noise, even the slightest hint of it, you need to contact honda and make arrangements for them to service it, so maybe they will issue a recall if this is the case!!!

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post #37 of 93 Old 09-15-2006, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
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Dude - Black socks w/ black shoes. repeat to yourself until rote.


Yea, I know But all my black socks were dirty and the black shoes are part of my uniform for audi, so rather than stinky feet I chose to not match .

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post #38 of 93 Old 09-17-2006, 06:43 AM
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Please post back with your results with the mechanic, Honda, and the brake noise. I'm holding off calling Honda until they have a documented problem and resolution so I can refer them to this case and be done with it. Thanks for the heads-up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjason View Post
The Honda rep called me back today, and after I blew some steam off on the phone, he started appologizing for the problem. He then stated that it was my choise of were to take the bike to and whatever the mechanic wanted to do to the bike would be done, also my warranty dates would be changed to whenever the problem is taken care of.

Today I took the bike to a dealer that sells a varity of makes and models and they also specialize in aftermarket parts and upgrades. The Mechanic, who seemed very knowledgable, Stated that he would be putting new rotors and some quality organic pads on the bike. He also said the bike was assembled correctly and everything was working properly, he believes that honda has used to touching surfaces that don't agree with each other(i.e. the pads and rotors).

So to everyone out there with this noise, even the slightest hint of it, you need to contact honda and make arrangements for them to service it, so maybe they will issue a recall if this is the case!!!

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post #39 of 93 Old 09-17-2006, 07:43 AM
 
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As far as brake noise goes from the car side of things... I had a headache on an Accord recently. Guy came in vaguely complaining of brake noise, I drove it, didn't hear anything, looked it over, front pads were (6mm), rear were pretty close to the wear indicators. Sold rear pads and machined the rear rotors. Came back complaining of a grumbling on slow stops. Rear rotors and pads were glazed. Lightly sanded the pads, cut the rotors again for free, told him to take it easy on stops for 500 miles. Comes in again. Grumbles on slow hard stops. Pretty much a normal noise, although his was a little louder than normal, and he was basically being picky. The rotors on my 1990 Accord are warped to the point that you can hear the pads slap, but I'm too lazy/cheap to replace them (and the car is only for when i can't ride anyway!) and you don't see me complaining. Cut the front rotors, was good for a week, comes back, finally the dealership gives him a parts/labor split on new front pads and rotors, noise gone. Bottom line, it was just some wierd freakish surface inconsistency between the pads and rotors, and it went deeper than the surface. Also Honda (automotive, at least for sure) is extremely good about taking care of their customers.

The heat that rotors undergo through normal use absolutely changes their material structure, if not their molecular makeup, at least at the surface (and in the case of one that's heated to the point of warping, it can make hard spots that go much deeper. That's why rotors that warp once are more likely to warp again). Just look at the finish of a new rotor vs a used one, or the blue streaking on one that was overheated. Scary stuff that someone would intentionally put heat to a rotor. It's something about the crystal structure or some business like that. It's why a traditionally made Japanese katana (sword not bike!) is sharper and stronger than a cast blade, the irregularities in the crystal structure from the forgeing (heating and quenching) process provide some sort of self reinforcement that is stronger than a uniform structure. I know a guy with a phd in material science engineering that could talk a lot more on the subject, but this is about as much as I need to know.

My 02 919 squeals a bit from time to time, but I honestly don't care enough to do anything about it till the pads wear out. I'm not trying to sneak up on anyone!

Fighting Uruk-Hai is offline  
post #40 of 93 Old 09-17-2006, 07:51 AM
 
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Ok, watched the video and that is way louder than my noise. I get a little "tinkle" out of the front pads, that noise you have would drive me nuts. New pads and rotors, yes.

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