Help on rear 919 brake pad replacement.. caliper piston won't push inward.. - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 31 Old 03-30-2012, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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Help on rear 919 brake pad replacement.. caliper piston won't push inward..

Trying put rear brake pads on the 919, and I dont understand what is necessary to push the rear caliper piston in? doesnt seem to wanna budge.. Also person before me let the old pads go, they were metal to metal, should it be ok to put new pads on the old caliper long as everthing works? theres few marks in the rear caliper looks like nothing bad?


quick replies needed, got the bike tore down !!

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post #2 of 31 Old 03-30-2012, 01:28 PM
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I always just use a big pair of channel lock pliers to squeeze the piston back in. It might be kinda stuck from being extended all the way out since the pads were so thin. Also might try shooting brake cleaner all around the piston to get some of the gunk out of there.You could always try cracking the bleeder valve too although it's usually not necessary.

Good luck...

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post #3 of 31 Old 03-30-2012, 01:34 PM
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crack the lid on the rear master cyl, just make sure you dont push it back too far that it spills brake fluid out of the master cyl, also take the time to apply brake cleaner to the caliper before you push it back in.

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post #4 of 31 Old 03-30-2012, 02:07 PM
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Honestly, if it's that bad, take the time and do it right. Remove the wheel, remove the caliper, pop out the piston (use an air compressor), clean the piston ring (it's rubber) and clean out all the internals of the piston, put on your new pads, put the caliper back on and re-bleed your lines.

If he let the pads go that long (especially on a rear, who ever wears out pads on the rear ) then he let the fluid go bad, too.

Haha, nice loca***n, btw, I just caught that.

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post #5 of 31 Old 03-30-2012, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
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Ok I got it back on, but no brakes now? before I used a c-clamp, I took some mild hits with to it with a hammer? c-lamp pushed it right back, but now no breaks? so I pushed rear brake all way down, turned bleeder valved half-turn, released.. did this 4 or 5 times and it seemed to build up just a little, then put cap back on, and work it with foot and it dont build up.. still no brakes... Am I doing something wrong? Brake fluid still at lower level? but going to go get some more dot 4 fluid ... but dont think thats what it is? coudl have I damaged a seal or something ?

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post #6 of 31 Old 03-30-2012, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Python423 View Post
Ok I got it back on, but no brakes now? before I used a c-clamp, I took some mild hits with to it with a hammer? c-lamp pushed it right back, but now no breaks? so I pushed rear brake all way down, turned bleeder valved half-turn, released.. did this 4 or 5 times and it seemed to build up just a little, then put cap back on, and work it with foot and it dont build up.. still no brakes... Am I doing something wrong? Brake fluid still at lower level? but going to go get some more dot 4 fluid ... but dont think thats what it is? coudl have I damaged a seal or something ?
You might have introduced air into your lines when you cracked your bleeder valve. What color is the brake fluid? If it's anything but a light tan/olive color (unless you bought colored stuff) then you need to re-bleed your lines.

Once again, I would clean the sucker out and bleed with fresh fluid. Do you have a mighty vac or some clear tubing, probably 3/8'th or 1/4"? You can attach that to the bleeder valve and suck on it (yes) while you are pumping the brake. This will pull fluid through and allow fresh fluid (hopefully bubble-free) to get all the way into the caliper.

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post #7 of 31 Old 03-30-2012, 03:05 PM
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ya sounds like you have introduced air into the line.

The rear is easy as its all on one side and close together.

Pump the lever multiple times to at least get the pads touching the rotor.

then simply push the lever down untill you feel pressure(or push all the way untill it cant go any further)

This creates pressure in the line. with the lever still held down, and a piece of tubing on the nipple of the bleeder screw, slowly open the bleeder and let fluid flow out.

CLOSE the bleeder while fluid is still flowing out. This ensures you dont suck back in any air.

Let up on the brake lever, and repeat the process again, pushing down on the lever, opening bleeder screw, shutting twords the end of the levers stroke while fluid is still comming out of the bleeder screw, wash rinse repeat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post

If he let the pads go that long (especially on a rear, who ever wears out pads on the rear ) then he let the fluid go bad, too.
mine were donzo right at the same time i replaced the fronts... 12ish k mi. I tend to use alota rear brake tho, simply cus thats what you mainly use in the dirt.

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post #8 of 31 Old 03-30-2012, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
mine were donzo right at the same time i replaced the fronts... 12ish k mi. I tend to use alota rear brake tho, simply cus thats what you mainly use in the dirt.
Came from a cruiser so I had the habit of using rear brake a lot. I now use the front for nearly all of my braking except for the last 20 ft till I stop. ( My 9er has the howls and it drives me nuts!!)

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post #9 of 31 Old 03-30-2012, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undercover919 View Post
Came from a cruiser so I had the habit of using rear brake a lot. I now use the front for nearly all of my braking except for the last 20 ft till I stop. ( My 9er has the howls and it drives me nuts!!)
Mine squeaks a bit, too. I only use my rear brake when doing the 1mph crawl in a long line of cars towards a 4 way stop .

Try it! Give the bike a little bit of gas with the rear brake on, you'd be surprised how much easier it is to keep the bike in balance and go REAL slow. Helps train your low speed balance, too!

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post #10 of 31 Old 03-30-2012, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
Mine squeaks a bit, too. I only use my rear brake when doing the 1mph crawl in a long line of cars towards a 4 way stop .

Try it! Give the bike a little bit of gas with the rear brake on, you'd be surprised how much easier it is to keep the bike in balance and go REAL slow. Helps train your low speed balance, too!
Yours might squeak, Mine is loud and annoying as HELL!! I usually only use front brakes when slowing down at any speed above 20 - 25mph(?). I hate the howl, I wish mine didn't have the howl as I would probably rarely touch the rear brake.

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post #11 of 31 Old 03-31-2012, 08:06 AM
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no howl here.... but i specifically went out to a deserted road and did about 15 hard 60-5mph stops in succession on both the front and rear to bed them in.

its not like im using the rear a shit ton, i just think people are somehow scared of it on the street. i actually use it... a lil trail braking in the corners from it etc.

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post #12 of 31 Old 03-31-2012, 06:18 PM
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post #13 of 31 Old 03-31-2012, 09:42 PM
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Take a scotch bright green pad to your rotor to clean it up. Take your pads out and clean them up a bit too. If that doesn't help, try switch left and right and then a test ride and howl should be better or maybe even gone. Rinse and repeat. I clean my rotors when they get a bit of dew buildup or its really humid out and then the dewdirt buildup dries on there (about once a month at least around here). At least give it a try and see if it helps your brake howls. Works for me and better than dealing with that god awful howl if I have to do a little cleaning now and then

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post #14 of 31 Old 04-01-2012, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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Well still no luck, I bought a 40 dollar bleeder system and bled the brakes, and even had mechinc come over.. he bled brakes and we took everthing apart pads,etc, and put it all back, and he said no air in system, but still no brakes, the pistion is coming out and sitting on rear stand it would stop wheel, but rolling , it woudlnt even slow the bike down any at all... So I dunno what else to do.. Only thing I can think of is maybe I damaged the pistion or caliper when I orginally hit it with hammer trying get it bac in? next step is take to motorcycle shop unless u guys got any more suggestions?

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post #15 of 31 Old 04-01-2012, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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also the rear caliper seems to move alot when u push the lever.. but the lever will keep going all way down.. theres times after fresh bleed that it feels like it might be trying to build up but if u push hard on brake pedal , it will go all way down and get easy to push again..........


HELP!!

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post #16 of 31 Old 04-01-2012, 02:00 PM
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Do you see any leaking around the caliper piston?

but really it sounds like you have air in the system.

Do you have some clear tubing that will fit over the bleeder nipple? if not get some (at least 4 ft).

Next, do you have some teflon tape? if not get some.


Pull the bleeder nipple out all the way, do a couple wraps of teflon tape. This will ensure that air isnt getting pulled through the threads. Replace bleeder screw, and tighten till it seats (not too tight).

Put the clear tube over the nipple. Make sure that the cap is OFF of the reservoir, and filled with brake fluid.

with the 8mm wrench in place on the bleeder nipple. begin to create a vacuum on the 4 foot piece of clear tube. (either by your mouth, or some fancy vacuum thing - a large syringe works ... but your mouth is actually easier... no hands required). You dont need much vacuum.

So now your at the point of having some vacuum in the clear line, slowly crack open the bleeder nipple, keeping a constant small vacuum to pull the brake fluid down through the brake line into the caliper.

It will probably start out with lots of air bubbles but get better and better. Once you have gotten it to where almost no more air bubbles are comming out... or the amount of air bubbles comming out has stopped decreasing. tighten the bleeder screw.

At this point follow the procedure laid out in post 7 above.

and you should have a rock hard pedal. A lot of times when you get to a point where the lever / pedal is decent but still a lil spongy let it sit overnight. This allows the many small micro bubbles to mas into one bigger bubble thats easier to push out... following post 7 above.

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post #17 of 31 Old 04-01-2012, 08:22 PM Thread Starter
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could there be anything else wrong? I dont see any leaks and it appears no air in system... even had my mechnic check it out.?

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post #18 of 31 Old 04-01-2012, 08:36 PM
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Would putting the wrong type of dot fluid in your reservoir cause this?

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post #19 of 31 Old 04-01-2012, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
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I put DOT 4 according to service manual

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post #20 of 31 Old 04-01-2012, 08:54 PM
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Do what Nd4 says, you need to bleed and WATCH the fluid coming up the clear tubing until you get NO bubbles. Even then, it doesn't hurt to bleed a few more reserve fills through the lines 'just to be sure'.

and you don't have to even mount the caliper to test the brakes, they should still squeeze the rotor REALLY hard if it's bled correctly.

Are you using brand new Dot4?

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post #21 of 31 Old 04-01-2012, 08:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
Do what Nd4 says, you need to bleed and WATCH the fluid coming up the clear tubing until you get NO bubbles. Even then, it doesn't hurt to bleed a few more reserve fills through the lines 'just to be sure'.

and you don't have to even mount the caliper to test the brakes, they should still squeeze the rotor REALLY hard if it's bled correctly.

Are you using brand new Dot4?
ya new DOT4.. will try again tommorrow... use the bleeder system and ran i dunno how muich fluid thru it, but will try again tomm.. havent got teflon on the bleeder screw yet tho. the service manual says not neccesary, but will do it

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post #22 of 31 Old 04-01-2012, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Python423 View Post
ya new DOT4.. will try again tommorrow... use the bleeder system and ran i dunno how muich fluid thru it, but will try again tomm.. havent got teflon on the bleeder screw yet tho. the service manual says not neccesary, but will do it
Watch some youtube videos on how to do it. After you apply pressure to the brake pedal you only want to open that bleeder valve for a SECOND, maybe not even that.

I do it really quick, just open close. No pause in the wrench or you're just asking for air to get back in. Pump, pump, pump, depress/hold, open/close, repeat.

And if you're not using a mighty vac or clear tubing and putting vacuum on the line, you'll repeat that a LOT. Even more so for the front brakes.

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post #23 of 31 Old 04-02-2012, 12:04 AM
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Are we sure the previously jammed piston is moving freely now? What if the movement is only on one side?

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post #24 of 31 Old 04-02-2012, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K1w1Boy View Post
Are we sure the previously jammed piston is moving freely now? What if the movement is only on one side?
Is there two pistons? I didnt look at it super close, but was under impression only one pistion on the outter side? fixing to work on it again..

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post #25 of 31 Old 04-02-2012, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
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Is there two pistons? I didnt look at it super close, but was under impression only one pistion on the outter side? fixing to work on it again..
Yup, rear is only one piston.

Maybe you have a bad piston seal? Did you ever tear the caliper apart to check? They can get quite gummed up in there if water ever got in the line. The last one I cleaned was pretty bad. Took a whole can of break cleaner to get her spotless. And I'm still considering replacing the seal.

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post #26 of 31 Old 04-02-2012, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
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Well they are working now, somewhat I guess. probably way suppose to.. but I bled em after putting teflon on the bleeder screw with a pump and i could tell when there was no air, but they still didnt work, so I watched the caliper, when the piston pushes in, the caliper pushed out.. So I took everthing apart again, and got looking at the rear caliper bolt, and the rubber seal, and was wondering if that should fit flush? I boogered up the rubber seal earlier when I was beating on caliper to get the pistion in, but not bad, but was wondering if it was to be a fit flush... somehow the threads are a little buggered was able thread it all way down.. and noticed it didnt tighten up, just to the front of braket, but It was all way in.. only thing I could figure out I had threads messedup a little and didn t have it tight all way down..

still not sure its all way down cuz of the rubber in between, will look see if caliper moves when pressed? should the caliper move any at all? also its stiff now and seems slow the bike down, but I dont remember how good the brakes before where rear only? shows how much i pay attention... it slows down but takes little while stop the bike just using rear.. it prob alright now, but it still could be something causing caliper to push back..

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post #27 of 31 Old 04-02-2012, 05:41 PM
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A) If you bugger up the seal around the piston, YES, you will have issues. DON'T use anything sharp to pull it out, if it's nicked, replace it.

B) Yes, you should be able to see the piston move.

C) You should be able to lock the rear wheel with firm pressure. Not 'standing on the pedal bounding up and down' kinda pressure, but firm pressure. And you should be able to get that in a single depress, not a series of pumps. If you have to pump, you have air. Try it under 20 mph and see if you can lock the rear for a few feet. Please be careful ;-)

D) I still think it seems too soft according to your description. Ride it and use the brake for a bit, let it sit overnight, then bleed another 1-2 reservoir tanks through it.

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post #28 of 31 Old 04-03-2012, 03:21 AM
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Check to make sure the forward 14mm slider is straight and not x-threaded.

Also clean the bore for the forward slider and apply new lube. With no pads installed the calipers should float on the sliders with very little effort.

If the forward slider is cocked at all it will seem fine on install, but once actuated it will bind causing the caliper to pivot causing the piston to only contact with part of area.

I had to tap my spare caliper and flexhone the bore on the bracket to get everything smooth again after powdercoat.

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post #29 of 31 Old 04-03-2012, 01:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g00gl3it View Post
A) If you bugger up the seal around the piston, YES, you will have issues. DON'T use anything sharp to pull it out, if it's nicked, replace it..
No just around the rear caliper mount bolt... also threads seem not perfect, what kinda tap and thread do I need to buy to retap just make the treads perfect again?

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post #30 of 31 Old 04-03-2012, 04:53 PM
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before you go tearing into it all.

Remove the pads from the caliper. (or squeeze the piston back into the caliper by pushing on it)

Does the caliper float on the pins easily?

cus if it does.... then no need to tear into it... the caliper floats, it works properly. If the piston comes moves and doesnt leak... its working properly.

if you still have a spongy pedal you have air in the line, its as simple as that.

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post #31 of 31 Old 04-03-2012, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd4spdbh View Post
Does the caliper float on the pins easily?
+1

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