GIVI luggage racks w/after market exhaust - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 33 Old 07-05-2008, 10:47 AM Thread Starter
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GIVI luggage racks w/after market exhaust

I figured out a way to mount the GIVI top rack and side racks while retaining my Sato CF slip-ons.

A little modification of the GIVI top rack is needed....no modification to the side racks and no modification to the exhaust is necessary.

If anyone is interested, I will tear the set-up back down and take some photos and write out the explanations later this week and post them...


Tom

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post #2 of 33 Old 07-05-2008, 11:47 AM
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go for it, it would help alot of people here im sure that are considering getting givi luggage.

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post #3 of 33 Old 07-05-2008, 12:21 PM
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Unfortunately I have Givi's flimsy hand rail mount monolock top box. Is yours the more stable double bar mount monokey?

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post #4 of 33 Old 07-07-2008, 05:27 PM Thread Starter
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This is a follow-up to my original post concerning fitting the GIVI top rack and side racks to a 919 equipped with Sato exhausts.

A quick look at how the Satos are attached to the 919 shows the problem: check out Michael Wheeler's Sato installation page inside www.919.org/sato . Scroll about halfway down the page, and take a look at the exhaust mount bracket supplied by Sato. You will see conspicuous differences in how the Sato attachment set-up differs from stock.

On the stock exhaust system, each exhaust simply hangs from the upper hole. The Sato, however, attaches to the bike sub-frame at this upper hole, but uses a second hole beneath it to hang each exhaust canister. Additionally, the face of the lower fitment point is angled, whereas the stock junction between frame and exhaust hanger is flat.

So the stock GIVI top rack won't work here for those two reasons: the "hang point" of the Sato exhaust is too low to use the hole drilled in the rack as supplied by GIVI, and the stock attachment point on the GIVI rack where the exhaust is connected to the bike is vertical while the location it needs to go to connect to the Sato exhaust mount bracket requires an angled contact face.

The photo below shows the end of the stock GIVI top rack rail that attaches to the exhaust mount. The slight bend in the bracket is normal: it allows the bracket to pass over the top of the silencer.



The next photo shows how the end of the bracket needs to be angled out to mate properly with the Sato mount. I used a hammer.




Creating that angle solves one of the fitment problems. The other problem is the GIVI-supplied hole to bolt the rack to the bike's sub-frame is too high for use with the Satos. I drilled a 3/16 inch pilot hole where I wanted to drop the bolt hole.



I enlarged the pilot hole to 3/8 inch.




Once the angle of the end of the GIVI top rack was modified and the hole for the attachment bolt was lowered, installation of the rack was straight-forward and normal. The next photo shows the top rack and side racks on the bike.



Fitment of the luggage reveals no issues. The modified rack system does not rub the bike's frame or bodywork anywhere. There is also plenty of clearance around the Satos.



There must be more than one way of adapting the GIVI materials to work with the Sato exhaust. I'm satisfied that this way will work for me.

For individuals having other aftermarket exhaust systems, inspection of how the aftermarket exhaust hangers attach to the bike's sub-frame and comparison with the GIVI rack geometry will most likely reveal a way to hammer, drill, or cut the GIVI unit into a cooperative posture.

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post #5 of 33 Old 07-07-2008, 08:41 PM
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Nice write up and pics Tom, that's sure to be very helpful to someone.

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post #6 of 33 Old 12-12-2008, 08:14 PM
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Thanks again for this write-up, Tom. I have a Givi Rack on the way, and it's nice to know that a bit of simple modding will make the rack usable with my Satos.

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post #7 of 33 Old 12-13-2008, 05:52 AM Thread Starter
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Nemo,

That's great: now there will be 2 GIVI-Sato 919s on the continent.

I held my breath hammering out the top rack brackets, as success depended partially on the strength of the original GIVI welds.

If you move on to GIVI side racks, the only question mark occurs when you get to the installation stage where, at the extreme rear of those racks, a cross-piece is supposed to connect them together. There is an option GIVI suggests for use with the stock rear fender/license plate holder, a different way to do it if you are using a fender eliminator kit, and a third option to avoid this issue altogether.

Let me know if you need more information on this.

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post #8 of 33 Old 02-04-2009, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom View Post

If you move on to GIVI side racks, the only question mark occurs when you get to the installation stage where, at the extreme rear of those racks, a cross-piece is supposed to connect them together. There is an option GIVI suggests for use with the stock rear fender/license plate holder, a different way to do it if you are using a fender eliminator kit, and a third option to avoid this issue altogether.

Let me know if you need more information on this.

Tom
Tom,
I've finally managed to put together a used set of Givi bags and racks; I'd love to hear how option #3 above is accomplished--I can't quite visualize an alternative to running the rear Givi rack crosspiece through the turn signal holes in the stock fender.

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post #9 of 33 Old 02-04-2009, 09:10 AM Thread Starter
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Nemo,

My original rear fender was gone the first week I owned the bike, and so I had no intention of following the complete GIVI instruction sheet.(option 1). I ran a cross-brace behind my fender eliminator re-located license plate to connect the side racks (the one supplied by GIVI for the prescribed stock fender fitment did not fit with the eliminator kit;this was option 2).

After doing several thousand miles with this set-up, I saw that this cross-piece at the rear was really not serving much of a purpose: the installation is very solid and robust w/o that cross-piece...I have one for appearances only...so my idea for the 3rd option was to not run a cross-piece at all, and to simply cut off the attachment stubs for a cross piece from each of the side racks.

Until I see a side case and rack skipping down the pavement, I won't believe that rear cross-piece is a vital necessity.

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post #10 of 33 Old 02-04-2009, 01:42 PM
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Fair enough--thanks for the idea. It does seem that the tubing is pretty solid, and may not need the crossbrace at all. It would be quite nice not to have to either relocate my turn signals or install an integrated turn/tail unit, too.

Perhaps I can get my GF to follow me and film me riding at speed on a challenging road with loaded bags attached to the racks with no cross-piece--and if I see any motion, I can go back and add the cross-piece and relocate the signals.

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post #11 of 33 Old 02-05-2009, 03:36 AM Thread Starter
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It is worth consideration and a critical trial.

If the top rack and side racks are installed correctly, loaded sidecases will not move at all even without that rear cross-piece.

But: if not following GIVI's instructions to the letter creates a worry or lingering doubt, I would steer away from "Option 3", as we are trying to remove negatives that could harm a worthwhile tour.

I guess I crossed the "no-worry" threshold on this topic when I began pounding the GIVI top rack with my hammer in order to get it to work with the Sato exhausts, and so I can also accept the sin of not using that rear cross-piece.

Please share your thinking on this, and the results of any testing you do...

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post #12 of 33 Old 02-07-2009, 08:04 AM Thread Starter
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There is a new line of racks and hard luggage available now that includes sidecase and topcase racks for the Honda 919.

The product is called SHAD Motorcases. The racks attach a little differently to the bike than the other available systems. A careful look might give someone ideas about using this system with aftermarket exhaust.

You can see this stuff at: http://www.binetto.com/

This addition gives choices of GIVI, Hepco-Becker, SW-Motech, Krauser, JC Whitney, and SHAD for 919 hard luggage bits and pieces.

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post #13 of 33 Old 02-07-2009, 08:27 AM
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i like the brackets for the side cases, dont like their cross bars, but he price seems to be fair.

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post #14 of 33 Old 02-07-2009, 09:31 AM
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I just got the SW Motech mount from Twisted Throttle and a Givi Traffic II, and I really like it. It will work great for 2-3 day trips this summer (something about 4 teenage boys limits the length of trips I can take). Here a link:

http://www.twistedthrottle.com/image...ctview/158/78/

It actually comes in black and looks "natural" on the bike.

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post #15 of 33 Old 02-07-2009, 11:04 AM
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I really like the looks of the SW Motech rack, but my only concern with that rack would be how much weight it could hold. Do you think or know that it could hold a case of beer without worry? Don't think that one would carry more weight then that up top.


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post #16 of 33 Old 02-07-2009, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powsmitty View Post
I really like the looks of the SW Motech rack, but my only concern with that rack would be how much weight it could hold. Do you think or know that it could hold a case of beer without worry? Don't think that one would carry more weight then that up top.


-smitty
I think it is rated for 14 pounds, so you might have to stick with a 1/2 rack and maybe some chips.....

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post #17 of 33 Old 02-07-2009, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powsmitty View Post
I really like the looks of the SW Motech rack, but my only concern with that rack would be how much weight it could hold. Do you think or know that it could hold a case of beer without worry? Don't think that one would carry more weight then that up top.


-smitty
Quote:
Originally Posted by sike View Post
I think it is rated for 14 pounds, so you might have to stick with a 1/2 rack and maybe some chips.....
those cases get lighter as you ride home....duh...



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post #18 of 33 Old 02-07-2009, 09:45 PM
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14 lbs. good to know.

...and no drinky while drivey for this cat.


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post #19 of 33 Old 04-26-2009, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom View Post
Nemo,

That's great: now there will be 2 GIVI-Sato 919s on the continent.

I held my breath hammering out the top rack brackets, as success depended partially on the strength of the original GIVI welds.
Tried this today, and unfortunately, both of the brackets for the top case cracked at the bend--not when I hammered them, but when I had them on the bike and was attempting to move the racks and arrange the bolts in a way that allowed the grab bar and tail section to be reinstalled. Very frustrating; I will have to see if I can find someone locally to weld them.

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post #20 of 33 Old 04-26-2009, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemo View Post
Tried this today, and unfortunately, both of the brackets for the top case cracked at the bend--not when I hammered them, but when I had them on the bike and was attempting to move the racks and arrange the bolts in a way that allowed the grab bar and tail section to be reinstalled. Very frustrating; I will have to see if I can find someone locally to weld them.
shouldnt be hard to have repaired nemo... find someone who does heliarc or tig for aluminum (same thing different name) and they can fix it in 2 shakes..



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post #21 of 33 Old 04-27-2009, 03:01 AM Thread Starter
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Nemo,

That's rotten news. The bending process worked so well for me I wanted to spread the news. My modified top rack is still good and strong.

But that is no consolation. I regret contributing to your frustration.

Tom

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post #22 of 33 Old 04-27-2009, 11:17 AM
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In the light of day, it doesn't seem so bad--the racks now have the proper bend to match the Sato hangers, and once I find a local welder (since the racks are just mild steel, a quick zap with a MIG setup will do), I'll have reinforced brackets for peace of mind.

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post #23 of 33 Old 04-29-2009, 10:52 AM
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Tom, would you happen to have any photos or a verbal description of how the newly bent and re-drilled Givi bracket fits against the upper Sato-to-bike bolt? I was attempting to line everything up last night before taking the brackets to the welder, but had difficulty in getting even the bent brackets to sit flush between the bolt and Sato exhaust hanger. The lower allen bolt (which attaches to the hanger strap) interferes with the lower bend of the bracket, too.

Thanks for any insight!

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post #24 of 33 Old 04-29-2009, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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Nemo,

I am away from home until Thursday afternoon. As soon as I get home I will take a photo or two of the attachment point and post it (them).

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post #25 of 33 Old 04-30-2009, 02:56 PM Thread Starter
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Nemo,

Below are some images I shot this afternoon, as I attached the modified GIVI top rack.

The first image is of the forward mounting pointn that I bent outward and then added a mounting hole below the hole that comes on the stock top rack. As you can see, the original top GIVI hole is not used at all. Throw it away. The new bottom hole is used with the canister hanger and Sato-supplied mounting bolt. The angle of the mount "tab" on the GIVI top rack should be the same as the angle on the Sato hanger fitting.



I attach each GIVI top rack rail separately, and do minimal tightening on the bolts at the Sato hangers: just tight enough to hold each rail from falling, and supplying lots of movement for easily sliding the bike's ear cowl back forward and into place. this is what the next image tries to show:



The next image shows the GIVI connection hardware at the 919 grab handle attachment points. Again, I connect everything here at the top end strong enough to hold, but not very tight. Then I fix each rail of the top rack to the connection point at the bottom of the GIVI hanger tightly.

Then I go to the extreme rear end of the top rack and attach and tighten the top case mounting plate, pushing and pulling things into alignment as almost nothing forward of here has been tightened yet.

Next, the grab handle bolts are tightened.



Last, I wind up at the forward ends of the top case rack, and tighten those Sato hanger bolts from inside the rear cowl; there is just enough room to get in there with the right tool.




When those hanger bolts are tightened, the installation is complete. Start at the front, and affix everything along the way back loosely...then work your way back forward, making everything tight, and the job is finished...



I have had great use out of this modification. It is possible I just got lucky creating the proper angles of bending, the new hole placement, and avoiding the breaking any of the GIVI welds. I can understand the things that can go wrong with this effort, and would like to see this through with you to a positive conclusion...so let me know...

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post #26 of 33 Old 04-30-2009, 05:02 PM
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Nice job Tom, and rep sent for the help you're providing. Good work.

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post #27 of 33 Old 05-01-2009, 02:58 AM Thread Starter
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HondaJim,

Thank you.

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post #28 of 33 Old 05-01-2009, 10:54 AM
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Rep added, indeed. Thanks for the very detailed photos. I think I see what I'd been doing wrong; I had been attempting to attach the rack to the upper attachment bolt (to the frame), which had thrown everything just off enough to make the rack resist lining up, despite my "attach everything loosely, then tighten" methodology.

The welder will be fixing the brackets today, and I'll make a methodical attempt to put things together tonight. Many thanks for your efforts, Tom.

I'm determined to reconcile luggage capacity with aftermarket bling!

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post #29 of 33 Old 05-01-2009, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
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Nemo,

When I was taking the photos I could see right where the problem was, and your comment is correct: use the newly drilled "bottom" hole on the now-angled forward GIVI bracket to attach the GIVI top rack to the Sato canister hanger using the Sato-supplied hanger bolt. Leave the GIVI top hole and Sato frame-mount fix point out of the equation.

The GIVI tolerances are not that high, so there should be enough wiggle room overall to get things to work well even if the modified angles are a little off.

Let me know how you do...

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post #30 of 33 Old 05-02-2009, 10:42 PM
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Victory at last! Thanks for your expertise, Tom. I was able to get the luggage setup together today after much fiddling.

I took the broken racks to a local welder, who helped me get the proper angle using a bench vise, and then welded the cracks in the brackets.

Time to try again. Here is the frame attachment point, with the Sato hanger straps and the Givi rack installed via the new bottom hole. You can hardly see where the bracket broke at the bend. Note the angle.


After loosely installing the front bracket, I slid on the tail section and bolted it down, then added the Givi plates that attach to the grab rail.
(This was the point at which I should have unplugged and slipped out the turn signals, pulled the wires though the holes in the Givi relocater plates that get bolted beneath the toprack plate. I didn't, and had to go back and pull the tail section again later.)


Next, the toprack plate.


I fastened everything loosely, then tightened, working back to front. There was, as Tom described, juuuust enough room to get an allen wrench in under the tail section and tighten the front mounting bolt. A ballhead allen wrench would have been an asset here.


Back view of the toprack plate with turn signal relocation plates installed. Should have slipped these plates over the turn signal wires before I reinstalled the tail section.

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post #31 of 33 Old 05-02-2009, 10:46 PM
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With the toprack installed, it was time for the side racks. They attach in three places; below the passenger footpeg, through the turn signal mounting holes, and via an allen bolt to the top rack bracket.

Footpeg attachment


Side racks in place


Front view with luggage installed. The topbox is the Givi E360, and the side boxes are Givi E41s.


Back view--definitely wide enough to complicate lanesplitting.


Looking ready to cross the continent...




Initial tests of the windshield and boxes reveal no wobbles on a brief, fast freeway run.

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post #32 of 33 Old 05-03-2009, 04:16 AM
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Excellent Job Nemo. Thats a great setup for your upcoming trip.

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post #33 of 33 Old 05-03-2009, 04:25 AM Thread Starter
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Nemo,

Nice job! The photos are great, and it is good to see your success with the set-up. Everything looks proper and correct.

There's a lot of GIVI on that bike now...possibly they could use a photo in return for a little "sponsorship"...

The E360 and E41s can carry a ton (You will know you are fully loaded when the bike tips back on the center stand, and the front tire raises off the pavement).

You should have a memorable trip!

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