Fuel injection connectors - Wrist Twisters
 
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post #1 of 19 Old 09-23-2007, 07:11 PM Thread Starter
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Fuel injection connectors

Ok, so I'm a major geek in addition to a tightwad. Power commanders are way over priced for what they do plus they don't support anything but that crappy OS from Micro$haft. So I'm looking at building my own from scratch. I've got a circuit that will do pulse duration modulation based on a reference voltage. All I need is a little poking around and it shouldn't be too hard.

Anybody got spare connectors for that FI brain where the power commander splices in? I want to build a little test circuit first and log some data before I go whole hog and start messing with my injection.

Anybody got a dead power commander they want to donate / sell cheap?

David

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post #2 of 19 Old 09-23-2007, 07:40 PM
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I had one, but they gave me a new one to replace it.
Be careful you don't fry the stock computer. I'm sure a PC III is cheaper than a new CPU.

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post #3 of 19 Old 09-23-2007, 10:41 PM
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One geek to another

Interesting idea!
What data accumulation module do you have?
As long as the circuit can be accurately initialized to sync with the leading edge of the injection open signal from the ECU (and I recommend loading the ECU injector driver circuits to at least half of the current draw of the injectors inductively to prevent unstable transistor loading), and it is accurate enough to consistently produce the same duration each time a TPS value is read, and can be made to react in a manner other than linear, as most circuits of this sort are, and ... jeez, there are a lot of things to think about!
Frankly, interfacing a PIC IC (or possibly a MIL spec Z80. Brush up on your machine code!) to an EEPROM map, NMI it to injector open in, tracking TPS and possibly the crank angle sensor, and mapping a divided clock pulse count figure to injector close may be more easily and flexibly implemented. Another advantage is many PICs have addressable error code access. As for the connectors: Molex! I'll be interested to hear how it's going, so keep us posted.

Rob

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post #4 of 19 Old 09-24-2007, 01:47 AM
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whew, all greek to me

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post #5 of 19 Old 09-24-2007, 04:39 AM
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Hmmm...and the advantage of all this electronic wizardry is what???

Lets see; change the main jets, the slow speed jets, bump to needles, or worse case a slightly different needle profile. Oh; lets not forget, a carbureted bike will never leave you stranded caused by a electronic failure. Call me old school!

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post #6 of 19 Old 09-24-2007, 04:54 AM
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mike you ever have points fail on you, on a old school bike. i have it still sucks.

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post #7 of 19 Old 09-24-2007, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by 3dcycle View Post
mike you ever have points fail on you, on a old school bike. i have it still sucks.
Never! Always carried a small burnishing stick(looks like a small stick of emery paper) and a match book cover(0.012") to reset the gap.

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post #8 of 19 Old 09-24-2007, 05:41 AM
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whew, all geek to me
There, fixed it for ya....

Shawn

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post #9 of 19 Old 09-24-2007, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMike View Post
Hmmm...and the advantage of all this electronic wizardry is what???

Lets see; change the main jets, the slow speed jets, bump to needles, or worse case a slightly different needle profile. Oh; lets not forget, a carbureted bike will never leave you stranded caused by a electronic failure. Call me old school!
Not to push the but my father still has this mentality even after his fuel injected cars, he has a ole reliable carbed vechicle still!!

Off thread jack!! I have no usefullness to add except good luck and keep us posted!

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post #10 of 19 Old 09-24-2007, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMike View Post
Hmmm...and the advantage of all this electronic wizardry is what???

Lets see; change the main jets, the slow speed jets, bump to needles, or worse case a slightly different needle profile. Oh; lets not forget, a carbureted bike will never leave you stranded caused by a electronic failure. Call me old school!
I'm with you Mike. I don't have a clue what they're talking about, but everything you said makes perfect sense.

-Joe
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post #11 of 19 Old 09-24-2007, 08:23 AM
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Hey, if some one at Power Commander designed one, I am sure DJS can. Hell, who would even think about attempting it if they don't know what they are doing?

Motorusher formally known as DirtySanchez919.
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post #12 of 19 Old 09-24-2007, 08:34 AM
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Good luck DJS. It sounds like an interesting project. Looks like you and Rob can definately bounce ideas off each other to get this accomplished. Have fun!

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post #13 of 19 Old 09-24-2007, 09:00 AM
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Hey, if some one at Power Commander designed one, I am sure DJS can. Hell, who would even think about attempting it if they don't know what they are doing?
I don't disagree. Please don't take my last comment as saying that, djs. I understand what you are trying to do, and what a power commander accomplishes, I just don't have any earthly clue how one would go about building one. Good luck with the project.

-Joe
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post #14 of 19 Old 09-24-2007, 09:32 AM
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Good luck and I applaud your thinking... HOWEVER....

If you are able to accomplish this.... Your time is much too valuable and you should just pony up the $$ and buy a PCIII and go accomplish something you can get paid while doing.

Problem solved.....

I LOVE Tig Bitties!
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post #15 of 19 Old 09-24-2007, 09:37 AM
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Have you looked at MegaSquirt?

http://www.diyautotune.com/

I've been starting to read up on it for a 4 wheeled project, but it sounds like quite a few people have used it for injected bikes.

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post #16 of 19 Old 09-24-2007, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
Interesting idea!
What data accumulation module do you have?
As long as the circuit can be accurately initialized to sync with the leading edge of the injection open signal from the ECU (and I recommend loading the ECU injector driver circuits to at least half of the current draw of the injectors inductively to prevent unstable transistor loading), and it is accurate enough to consistently produce the same duration each time a TPS value is read, and can be made to react in a manner other than linear, as most circuits of this sort are, and ... jeez, there are a lot of things to think about!
Frankly, interfacing a PIC IC (or possibly a MIL spec Z80. Brush up on your machine code!) to an EEPROM map, NMI it to injector open in, tracking TPS and possibly the crank angle sensor, and mapping a divided clock pulse count figure to injector close may be more easily and flexibly implemented. Another advantage is many PICs have addressable error code access. As for the connectors: Molex! I'll be interested to hear how it's going, so keep us posted.

Rob
Hell you even lost me a couple times too...

No seriously I have a circuit that can modify the duration of a PDM signal based upon a reference voltage. Which I think I could fool with either an analog out or just a simple voltage divider with a digital potentiometer. That is idea one.

Idea two is what I think you are referring to, basically why try to tweak the signal inline, just replace the brain all together. I've got access to some interesting stuff through work, I've got a couple of Motorola Coldfire based units from netburner.com lying around.

I think my first step is to get the signals on a scope and maybe tee off into a data acquisition system and record some data. I know the pulse duty cycle to the FI is roughly 80%, any idea what the frequency is? I'll have to sneak one of the battery scopes out to the parking lot on the weekend .

I've just gotten some really cool tools at work to do my own boards with FPGA (think digital playdough) tools integrated. FPGA's provide plenty of speed for the calculations and are easy to tinker with but I would still need a fairly fast analog front end to source the current and "keep up".

I'm not going to save time or money. But I will have fun. And I might learn something too. And if I make it work, I'll publish the plans and software.

Here's my feature wishlist
Wireless connectivity, either bluetooth or wifi
Simple programming format (csv or xml)
Intelligent data logging to non volatile media (SD card)
Simple bypass switch to take the unit out of the loop and return to stock ECU
accelerometers like these so I can get some indication of performance. In a dream world the controller would be set to "learn mode" and you would go do some top speed / hard acceleration runs and the controller would try to produce an optimal map by learning which tweaks produced better acceleration readings.

All this crap is overkill for a 919. But if I make it work on a 919, then I can make it work anywhere there is fuel injection. And I have been lusting over that new Buell.
David

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post #17 of 19 Old 09-24-2007, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djs_tx View Post
And I have been lusting over that new Buell.
David
I am with you on that one!

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post #18 of 19 Old 09-24-2007, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMike View Post
Hmmm...and the advantage of all this electronic wizardry is what??? Call me old school.
Okay, your'e old school!
Learning! And possibly doing a better job than they do on a PCIII. And just plain ol' having a geeky good time. Besides, do you want to plant a set of carbs and breaker points on a 919, and then spend the better part of a couple months trying to get it to keep up with a stocker? Thought not.

Rob

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post #19 of 19 Old 09-24-2007, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robtharalson View Post
Okay, your'e old school!
Learning! And possibly doing a better job than they do on a PCIII. And just plain ol' having a geeky good time. Besides, do you want to plant a set of carbs and breaker points on a 919, and then spend the better part of a couple months trying to get it to keep up with a stocker? Thought not.

Rob
I'll meet you 1/2 way. Carbs can be sorted out quickly, however I would use a DynaIII electronic ignition(bullet proof) with magnetic pick-ups. Keeping up with a stocker? No problem!

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