frame sliders on a naked...why? - Wrist Twisters
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post #1 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 05:55 AM Thread Starter
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frame sliders on a naked...why?

While I was up late because my crazy dog wouldn't let me sleep I had a thought.

Why do we put sliders on our 919s? The answer is obviouse I know. But how much damage really does happen to a naked if it goes down without sliders? I'm willing to bet mine would still be on the road if I didin't have them.

Do they get smaller dents in the tank? Less likely to break/bend a lever? Side case damage signicantlly less?

Anyone got pics of a good low side without sliders in place?

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post #2 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 06:00 AM
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It will crack your crank case side cover wide open and spill oil everywhere if you don't have them! Plus it can save your bars and tank.

I'm pretty sure there are pics on here somewhere of lowsides without sliders. Do a search.

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post #3 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 07:34 AM
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Here is a pic fro a different forum. I think with sliders there would have been no damage at all.

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post #4 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 07:51 AM
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WIsh I had them when I low sided.... Just bent the clutch lever and scratched the hell out of the Stator cover and rear peg and swingarm....and this was low speed on muddy dirt....

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post #5 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 10:15 AM
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i had photos of 2 different lowsides with no significant damage due to sliders... but i erased the photos... sawry...



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post #6 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 10:28 AM
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I had minor scratches on many different parts of the bike when I dumped my 919, it was completely ridable other the bars were slightly bent so they had to be replaced but to get rid of all the ugly scratches cost a lot of money replacing many parts, I'm sure sliders would have prevented many of those parts from recieving scratches.

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post #7 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 10:30 AM
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My wife tested her sliders last summer. At the time, we were about 45 miles from the hotel, in the middle of nowhere (the big city near us was about 100 miles away and had maybe 5,000 people). Her rear brake lever needed a roadside adjustment (it was wasted). There were a few scratches here and there. But, without the slider, there might have been a hole in the case and a puddle of oil.

So, I'm very glad we had them.

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post #8 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 10:39 AM
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some punk jumped on mine when it was parked with the bars locked,
jerked it off the stand and lost it going over the other side,
it hit hard on concrete, NO damage with siders.
they are the only accessory i have on the bike,
besides my power commander cover :001_smile:

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post #9 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drivit View Post
some punk jumped on mine when it was parked with the bars locked,
jerked it off the stand and lost it going over the other side,
it hit hard on concrete, NO damage with siders.
they are the only accessory i have on the bike,
besides my power commander cover :001_smile:
i would have beat the snot out of him....



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post #10 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 01:32 PM
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Those photos match my bike pretty well. Rashed the alternator cover without cracking it.

So add up a new tank, a new stator cover, a new rear cowl, a new heat shield for the left pipe, and a new flyshield. Tack on the fact that I put a crack in the instrument cluster case.

All OEM parts, we're probably around $2K, and that's for a bike that survived the crash just fine; that is, it runs perfectly and there are no real problems with it.

That's a pretty good reason to install an $80 set of frame sliders, I think.

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post #11 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 02:42 PM
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just don't crash...

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post #12 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 05:12 PM
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I'm gonna order a set of sliders, any brand recomendations?

Thanks.

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post #13 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
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I'm gonna order a set of sliders, any brand recomendations?

Thanks.
Here you go! Honda CB900F / 919 Hornet Frame Sliders

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post #14 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
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+1 for Motivation sliders

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post #15 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 06:16 PM
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I heard the motovation sliders break your frame if you go down? Don't remember where I heard that from so it may be bogus info??

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post #16 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian View Post
I heard the motovation sliders break your frame if you go down? Don't remember where I heard that from so it may be bogus info??
Sliders work great for tip-overs and low speed crashes, but they can be a point of leverage during high speed crashes that will destroy a bike. So, you might have heard from a person who had a high speed crash. Please note, that same high speed crash without sliders would have also, in all likelihood, led to a totalled bike.

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post #17 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 06:28 PM
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i just got a pair of t-rex sliders off ebay for 16 bucks! brand new, they have lot in stock, ebay search , (honda 919 sliders)

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post #18 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
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Tank, rear cowl, covers would all get scratched up with sliders too. I've bent two tests of bars with sliders so they are not safe either. I supose there is a little less rash on the covers without sliders but they still are a touch point. And they are replaceable.

I would recomend them. I was just curiouse. Frame sliders sure need to be mounted to the frame. Not the engine mounts. They can break the mounts. Plenty of info about that on here somewhere.

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post #19 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 06:33 PM
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RE: ??

My Givi crash bars will be here Monday.
Wonder if my sliders will help, or hurt the crashbars protect " Lil Red" ?
Take em off or leave em on?
I know the upper plates will be in the way, but, they can be mounted to the frame again, if they will help.

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post #20 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian View Post
I heard the motovation sliders break your frame if you go down? Don't remember where I heard that from so it may be bogus info??
This is OLD information.
Any version of frame sliders that bolt to the engine mount have this problem.

The current version of the Motovation sliders for the 919 use the frame as the mount point. I have a pair, though they have never been tested. Others give good reports.

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post #21 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 07:12 PM
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Well I'm gonna order a set this weekend, leaning towards the motovation. Considering the satos as well, and anybody have any feed back on the 16 dollar t-rex sliders referenced above? Sounds to good to be true, and found that's unfoutunately usually dead on. Maybe they're made with some sort of cheaper plastic that won't hold up? Maybe its just a smokin deal cause they're not name brand but perfectly fine?? I dunno?

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post #22 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 07:21 PM
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If you look on youtube there is a crash of a 599 with the Givi crash bars, they seem to work well. I put them on my 9er, love the looks...

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post #23 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 07:49 PM
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The bars look sweet that's for sure, but they've got some scary reviews. I'm not sure I totally trust em, they look sharp though.

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post #24 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 07:58 PM
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They make a great second foot rest to get your legs in a different position for awhile. If they protect anything in a tip over or crash even better. I have some for my reasons above.

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post #25 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian View Post
Well I'm gonna order a set this weekend, leaning towards the motovation. Considering the satos as well, and anybody have any feed back on the 16 dollar t-rex sliders referenced above? Sounds to good to be true, and found that's unfoutunately usually dead on. Maybe they're made with some sort of cheaper plastic that won't hold up? Maybe its just a smokin deal cause they're not name brand but perfectly fine?? I dunno?
The t-rex are cheap plastic. Save your money. I know of friends who bought them and they broke as soon as they hit the ground.

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post #26 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 10:08 PM
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Also OES sliders on Ebay. Any reviews/opinions about them?

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post #27 of 58 Old 11-27-2009, 10:18 PM
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the set i had i bought off ebay... they were ~30$ and the left side took 2 ~15 mph lowsides without breaking anything at all... they were mounted on the engine also........

i think alot of the engine breakages were due to soft bolts being used and they were not tightened as tight as they should have been *(mine were tightened to the absolute maximum torque i could put on them)........

i am not saying don't frame mount yours i am simply relaying MY experiences ......

oh yeah my 919 also had a parked fall over to the right hand side with no damage at all......



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post #28 of 58 Old 11-28-2009, 06:53 AM
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These are the only ones worth having IMHO. Two mounting points eliminates any worry of anything bending and breaking. Everything elce looks cheap to me. They're for sale BTW. Going to sell the 919 in the spring.

Givi crash bars would be the ultimate in protection, but they didn't get along with my bike. Murph has em now.

I replaced my stock alt cover witha Circut 1. I figured between the GSG frame sliders and the Circut 1 alt cover, I would at least get back home after a massive get off. The Circut 1 is for sale also.
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post #29 of 58 Old 11-28-2009, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
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I see your point on the soft bolts. But putting harder ones in only lowers the chance of breakin your engine mount (In theory). As oposed to moving the slider and therefore eliminatin the chance of breakingg the engine mount.

I did have two relativly high speed get offs. One on a back road, maybe 50mph and nother at MidOH probably around 75 or so. Both landed on the right side. Both slid far enough to wear the slider darn near to the bolt. The MidOH go down eventually went off track, then over curbing, then into gravel trap. The back road get off I dont think his much with the right side slider. But in that same crash the left side slider caused a small hairline crack on the left side mount. It must have impacted something. Likely the same tree that broke my forks and bent the rim. Point being. The engine mounted sliders work great but one can never predict how the bike will go down. So why risk it. I started the thread just wondering if the sliders realy protect much of anytihng. Don't think they do. Still they minimize damage to other stuff but with no expensive plastic there isn't much to save, and in the wrong location can cause worse damage.

Given the option. I think I'd rather have no slider than engine mounted. A bigger dent in the tank and more rash on the side covers is better than a broken eninge. But moving the sliders to the frame, or the set up that Sniper has is surely the best. Unless of coarse high corner speed isn't an issue then one can go for the stunter cage set up for ultimate protection.

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post #30 of 58 Old 11-28-2009, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
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Given the option. I think I'd rather have no slider than engine mounted. A bigger dent in the tank and more rash on the side covers is better than a broken eninge. But moving the sliders to the frame, or the set up that Sniper has is surely the best. Unless of coarse high corner speed isn't an issue then one can go for the stunter cage set up for ultimate protection.
When I had my Busa I was surprised to learn that a huge portion of the owners (the ones that actually rode their bikes like you are supposed to) didn't use sliders. The Busa sliders that were for sale at the time (about 3-4 years ago) caused frame damage during virtually any low speed wreck (let alone a high speed wreck). So, you need to make a choice regarding what your risks are and what you are willing to pay for.

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post #31 of 58 Old 11-28-2009, 01:33 PM
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Sliders

I try to "ride-out" wrecks, which has turned out to be a pretty good strategy for the most part (current broken ribs are an exception), which I get from riding in the dirt. My feeling is I'm hopeful a slider will keep some of the initial impact force off my lower legs in a fall...I'm not so concerned about the bike. I know road and off-road wrecks and handling strategies are different, but, the times I've had close calls on-road, my committment to stay on the bike has allowed me to "save it" when I think I would have simply dumped it, had I not been employing this strategy.

Otherwise, a slider is an attempt to minimize cosmetic damage in the driveway and/or garage mishaps...in my mind. I did see a fellow nudged off his bike at a traffic light the other day...his slider seemed to have taken the brunt of the fall very well...at least at first blush. You'd have to examine in closely to make sure nothing else happened.

I used the bolt-through the frame version...I already had the 10mm drill bit.

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post #32 of 58 Old 11-28-2009, 04:53 PM
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Sliders on a 919 reduce impact to the tank. But thats about it.
As you can see your case covers will still hit long before the slider hits.
Then it's bar end & slider as long as the bars don't twist or the slider bends.

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post #33 of 58 Old 11-28-2009, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrmikey View Post
Sliders on a 919 reduce impact to the tank. But thats about it.
As you can see your case covers will still hit long before the slider hits.
Then it's bar end & slider as long as the bars don't twist or the slider bends.

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post #34 of 58 Old 11-28-2009, 09:57 PM
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I've been hit from behind and knocked into a curb on my first 919; on the second, I dropped it at a stop on a gravel road when my foot went out from under me.

In both cases, my Givi crashbars performed admirably, protecting both the stator cover and the tank. The points of contact were the crashbars, the bar end, and the lever.

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post #35 of 58 Old 11-29-2009, 07:02 AM Thread Starter
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That is a great picture XR. I'd bet if you just pushed it over from straight it would rotate on the sliders and hit the tank. Even if it was just for a moment.

On those Givi bars. What touches down first. The bars, or the pegs? If its the pegs is that with or without curb feelers attached?

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post #36 of 58 Old 11-29-2009, 09:56 AM
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The sliders are best mounted to the frame, noting that only minor work is needed to use the existing holes with the plastic plugs in them. Drill to size then tap to size. The grade of mounting bolts used have absolutely nothing to do with engine tabs breaking if one mounts the sliders to the engine bolts. I believe the underlying reason for the engine tabs breaking off in some crashes, is that the engine is not truly rigidly mounted to the frame at that point. Look very carefully and you will see that there is relatively sideways flexible single section component in the fabricated piece the engine mounts to. For some reason, perhaps related to vibration, Honda deliberately designed in some flex in the overall front mount system, while the rear is rigidly mounted. Flex = deflection = movement = angular loads on the cast aluminum engine tab = breakage in some instances but not always.

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post #37 of 58 Old 11-29-2009, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacojerte View Post
the set i had i bought off ebay... they were ~30$ and the left side took 2 ~15 mph lowsides without breaking anything at all... they were mounted on the engine also........

i think alot of the engine breakages were due to soft bolts being used and they were not tightened as tight as they should have been *(mine were tightened to the absolute maximum torque i could put on them)........

i am not saying don't frame mount yours i am simply relaying MY experiences ......

oh yeah my 919 also had a parked fall over to the right hand side with no damage at all......
Interesting discussion, guys.

Actually, in my younger days I worked at a place where we used grade 5 (soft) bolts in an application so that the bolt would sheer in a mishap before it did damage to more expensive stuff. A harder bolt (gd. 8+) would have caused the mounting point to break before the bolt did, which would have caused a lot more damage. See the connection? The engine mounting point breakages on 919s were more likely caused by overly hard bolts (gd. 12) and sliders stiffened with aluminum inserts, in my opinion. The weakest part of the whole system is the mounting point, not the bolt. Combine that with mcromo's useful analysis of the flex in the frame at that point, and it's a recipe for failure in a high speed crash.

Again, this is just my opinion, but I think sliders are useful only for drops or slow-speed low-sides. I've got them on my bike now for that reason only. They're engine mounted right now, but I've been contemplating moving them to the frame. After seeing XRMikey's pics, though, I think I'm just going to take them off. Guess I'm agreeing with the OP on this one.

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post #38 of 58 Old 11-29-2009, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay313 View Post
Again, this is just my opinion, but I think sliders are useful only for drops or slow-speed low-sides. I've got them on my bike now for that reason only. They're engine mounted right now, but I've been contemplating moving them to the frame. After seeing XRMikey's pics, though, I think I'm just going to take them off. Guess I'm agreeing with the OP on this one.
honestly all of them are *(except the givi cages) are for low speed laydowns and drops... there are too many variables to claim high speed crash protection.... they do what they are designed to to... protect the tank......

if you want better protection either build yourself or have someone build a stunt cage around the engine and THOSE DO give great protection.... i have toyed with the idea of building on for the viffer but i don't wanna ugly up my bike........



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post #39 of 58 Old 11-29-2009, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacojerte View Post
honestly all of them are *(except the givi cages) are for low speed laydowns and drops... there are too many variables to claim high speed crash protection.... they do what they are designed to to... protect the tank......

if you want better protection either build yourself or have someone build a stunt cage around the engine and THOSE DO give great protection.... i have toyed with the idea of building on for the viffer but i don't wanna ugly up my bike........
Or, get back into the car.....

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post #40 of 58 Old 11-29-2009, 12:27 PM
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who ever heard of high speed crash bars anyway?
LOS are the nicest ones.

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